Can I deny a Rental Applicant based on perceived lying?

Member since 2019 · 36 posts · 23 votes

I have a SFR that I just put on the rental market after two years of remodeling. The place is brand new from the studs in.

I have had a myriad of unqualified people inquire. I did get a request from a person who is insistent on renting the property. I told him that he needs to come over and tour the property first. When he came to tour and interview with myself and my husband, he stated he owns a local retail shop in town and plans to put 4-5 people in the house. When I told him that every adult needs to fill out a credit application and go through a background check, he said he would be responsible for everyone. I told him we can't accept that and everyone still needs to fill out the application. He then said, OK, then just send me and my store manager the application for now. We took his info and the store manager's info and said we'd send out the invitation to apply (through apartments.com credit/background check) later in the day. We also told him we are showing the property the rest of the weekend.

Quite frankly, my gut feeling tells me that he is lying to me about how many people will eventually end up in the house and then removing them will be a nightmare, let alone what they'll do to the house having no skin in the game. However, being that he is Asian, I need to avoid any discrimination lawsuits.

At this time we do not have any other qualified candidates I can't use the line the we accepted another candidate.

I'm worried enough about this situation that we are considering taking the house of the rental market until January just to avoid this situation and hope he finds something else. What is one more month or two off the market after 2 yrs!

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member

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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes

Yes, you can deny an applicant based no false information. You could also deny them by stating your property is a single-family residence and not a boarding house for employers.

I've rented to businesses before and it can be very lucrative because I charge much more. I currently have a house that would ordinarily rent for $1,800 but I'm renting it to a company for $3,600. I also charged them a double deposit ($7,200) and a non-refundable cleaning fee of $800. They're happy to pay because it's a helluva lot cheaper than putting guys up in a hotel. Easy money when it's done right.

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Scott M.
Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y
@Dory Peters stick to your guns on having everyone fill out applications though. You mention you are a bit shy about asking "intrusive" questions (by the way, they are not intrusive, they are required for your business). Don't be shy about sticking to your rental criteria and having everyone fill out an app. Everyone over 18 (related or not) has to fill out an app for us and most that I know if.
1 Reply
Dorys Prentice
OP
Member since 2019 · 36 posts · 23 votes
4y
@Linda S. - I stress about everything. LOL. This is not about race, but there are folks who make everything about race, to their advantage, so I want to make sure all my T's are crossed.
0 Reply
Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y
Originally posted by @Corina Eufinger:
Your decision to deny or accept cannot be rooted in this matter. You need to have other reasons as to why you either denied this person or went with a different candidate. I.e. another candidate had a better credit score or their income ratio was better, etc.

If she gets a bad feeling about this applicant, she certainly can reject them. No other reasons needed. How one relays that to the applicant is another matter.....

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y
@Dorys Prentice Regardless of what else you decide, make sure you have an application and credit check for anyone that lives there. If you don't it could go south on you real quick.....
0 Reply
Linda S.
Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y
@Dorys Prentice,
People like that are itching for a law suit. I'd be as nice, and VAGUE as possible. A simple
"Thank you for the email, we're currently reviewing all applications." works great. I hate people like that, when you know they are out to get someone, and you just hope it's not you. Be as general/nonspecific as possible, this is an applicant-- you don't owe them anything more than professionalism.
3 Reply
Dorys Prentice
OP
Member since 2019 · 36 posts · 23 votes
4y
Originally posted by @Bruce Woodruff:
@Dorys Prentice Regardless of what else you decide, make sure you have an application and credit check for anyone that lives there. If you don't it could go south on you real quick.....

Absolutely! My requirement for this is what prompted him to say that only he and his store manager would be applying.

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y
Originally posted by @Dorys Prentice:
Originally posted by @Bruce Woodruff:
@Dorys Prentice Regardless of what else you decide, make sure you have an application and credit check for anyone that lives there. If you don't it could go south on you real quick.....

Absolutely! My requirement for this is what prompted him to say that only he and his store manager would be applying.

It still sounds fishy to me. I'd pass and move on to the next possible tenant. He's gonna be trouble....

0 Reply
Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
4y
Originally posted by @Daniel Smyth:
@Dorys Prentice
You can deny a rental application for any reason!
Just understand that if you say a reason is one of those protected reasons, you will find yourself in hot water.
You can deny without explanation at all!
Many never figure this out.
Politely say No thank you and refuse to say more. No legal statue provides that you must declare why you refuse!
Prove me wrong!
It's so simple. Just say no thanks and look at the next application!
You have the right to rent to anyone, the same as to rent to anyone. You just need to know when to shut that mouth! It's your prooerty.
Direct and right! That's me!

There are situations where you are legally required to provide reason for denial. If you pull the credit report and deny based on credit information, Federal law requires you to disclose in writing. If the tenant pulls the report and shares it with you, then you are not required to disclose (this is how most reports are pulled now for this reason). In some states, you are required to disclose reason for denial. I realize this may not be required in Illinois, but every states has their own laws governing this.
Even though you may not be required to provide a reason, you need to have a reason and it can't be "any reason". Always document a legal reason in your paperwork.
We provide a reason for denial for four reasons:
1. It is good business to respond to applicants with a reason. It is courteous and professional. If someone spends money to apply, I believe they are entitled to a reason for denial.
2. Providing a reason as the "final answer" stops the applicant from inquiring and pushing for reason. In my early investing days, I didn't provide a reason (under your same logic) which resulted in phone calls and texts drilling me for reason why. It no long happens, because I provide a clear reason why.
3. Not providing a reason opens potential for claims of discrimination. Some people automatically assume you are discriminating if you don't give a reason. That is because landlords who discriminate do not provide reasons. Once you document the reason, it is harder to question why you denied the person.
4. We send it via email, so there is a time stamped documentation trail. This provides legal protection.
Bottom line, if you are denying based on acceptable reasons, there should be no problem. As you said, you only get yourself in hot water if you are denying people for the wrong reasons.
One caveat - small landlords who owner occupy or rent less than four houses may be exempt from fair housing if they self manage. In this situation you are allowed to deny protected class, but not allowed to advertise against protected class or allowed disclose that as the reason you denied.
3 Reply
Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
4y

Sorry! I briefly read a post stating that Oregon landlords have to accept the first qualified applicant. As a landlord, I seriously feel like the government is trying to squeeze us out of business. I was looking on the internet for information about having to rent to the first qualified applicant and did not find any information. Perhaps, you can post a link.
I think many landlords have all their applicants calls go to voicemail and the landlords have as little personal contact as possible. Everyone knows that voicemails are recorded. Then, put Boldbeast recorder on a cell phone and tell everyone the call is being recorded if you are required to in your state. While you would think most applicants are polite on the phone I find that a high percent make statements that disqualify them.
I think whether or not you expose yourself to being sues revolves around whether or not you have a precise set of rules you use that you apply when reviewing each applicant. It used to be, before our country change to socialism, that as long as we applied the same rules to every applicant and documented every applicant's application we could still get sued, but had a better chance of winning in a court.
It is super easy today to document every phone call, text message, applications and pictures so we have a better chance of winning in court. I've had Boldbeast recorder on my phone for several years and I love it. To get it record the callers' phone numbers do not download the software from Play Store or whatever you call it. To get it to record phone numbers download it onto your phone directly from a Goolgle or Chrome Boldbeast recorder website and it costs only $9.99 for life.
Just last week, one of my employees told me something on the phone about a job and I was super angry and about to fire him. Then, he told me he did not tell me on the phone what I thought I heard. So, I played the call back to him and I was correct. Sometimes, I am wrong and that can be weird when I can't even remember what I said. Every few months I plug the phone into my computer and transfer all the phone calls, text messages and pictures to a hard drive.
I was the most horrible business person when it came to saving emails and I never kept important emails. Now, I switched to Gmail and purchased a software for about $29 from a company called Gmail Backup Wizard by Recovery Tools and it transfers all my emails to my computer and will delete them from Gmail at the same time if you want to delete them. I find it much easier to find past emails on my computer than on Gmail.

Just make sure to follow state laws regarding recording voice calls. This is illegal without consent in many states.

2 Reply
David Dachtera
Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y
Originally posted by @Dorys Prentice:
I have a SFR that I just put on the rental market after two years of remodeling. The place is brand new from the studs in.

I have had a myriad of unqualified people inquire. I did get a request from a person who is insistent on renting the property. I told him that he needs to come over and tour the property first. When he came to tour and interview with myself and my husband, he stated he owns a local retail shop in town and plans to put 4-5 people in the house. When I told him that every adult needs to fill out a credit application and go through a background check, he said he would be responsible for everyone. I told him we can't accept that and everyone still needs to fill out the application. He then said, OK, then just send me and my store manager the application for now. We took his info and the store manager's info and said we'd send out the invitation to apply (through apartments.com credit/background check) later in the day. We also told him we are showing the property the rest of the weekend.

Quite frankly, my gut feeling tells me that he is lying to me about how many people will eventually end up in the house and then removing them will be a nightmare, let alone what they'll do to the house having no skin in the game. However, being that he is Asian, I need to avoid any discrimination lawsuits.

At this time we do not have any other qualified candidates I can't use the line the we accepted another candidate.

I'm worried enough about this situation that we are considering taking the house of the rental market until January just to avoid this situation and hope he finds something else. What is one more month or two off the market after 2 yrs!

Whatever you do, make sure your attorney is on board with it. Make sure what ever you do will stand up in court.
My $0.02 ...
1 Reply
Account Closed
Member since 2020 · 983 posts · 1k+ votes
4y
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
@Account Closed, @Bruce Woodruff, @Terrell Garren why yes, I do try to follow the law, especially if not following it would possibly get me sued..... But you guys can say you would never do this or that and that is fine..... you dont live and work here and honestly its not that hard of as law to maneuver.... good strong criteria, a good class of RE, writing ads that draw the right people, and finally talking to folks before you even show the unit. The law is that we must accept the first "qualified applicant". This means the person needs to fill out an application and pass all my screening..... I dont do open houses, I dont allow anyone to apply to a unit unless I send them a link.... Are some of the laws here silly and end up costing tenants more money? why yes - but that is a debate for another thread.... to play the game I gotta follow the rules.... >shrug<

Sorry! I briefly read a post stating that Oregon landlords have to accept the first qualified applicant. As a landlord, I seriously feel like the government is trying to squeeze us out of business. I was looking on the internet for information about having to rent to the first qualified applicant and did not find any information. Perhaps, you can post a link.
I think many landlords have all their applicants calls go to voicemail and the landlords have as little personal contact as possible. Everyone knows that voicemails are recorded. Then, put Boldbeast recorder on a cell phone and tell everyone the call is being recorded if you are required to in your state. While you would think most applicants are polite on the phone I find that a high percent make statements that disqualify them.
I think whether or not you expose yourself to being sues revolves around whether or not you have a precise set of rules you use that you apply when reviewing each applicant. It used to be, before our country change to socialism, that as long as we applied the same rules to every applicant and documented every applicant's application we could still get sued, but had a better chance of winning in a court.
It is super easy today to document every phone call, text message, applications and pictures so we have a better chance of winning in court. I've had Boldbeast recorder on my phone for several years and I love it. To get it record the callers' phone numbers do not download the software from Play Store or whatever you call it. To get it to record phone numbers download it onto your phone directly from a Goolgle or Chrome Boldbeast recorder website and it costs only $9.99 for life.
Just last week, one of my employees told me something on the phone about a job and I was super angry and about to fire him. Then, he told me he did not tell me on the phone what I thought I heard. So, I played the call back to him and I was correct. Sometimes, I am wrong and that can be weird when I can't even remember what I said. Every few months I plug the phone into my computer and transfer all the phone calls, text messages and pictures to a hard drive.
I was the most horrible business person when it came to saving emails and I never kept important emails. Now, I switched to Gmail and purchased a software for about $29 from a company called Gmail Backup Wizard by Recovery Tools and it transfers all my emails to my computer and will delete them from Gmail at the same time if you want to delete them. I find it much easier to find past emails on my computer than on Gmail.

Just make sure to follow state laws regarding recording voice calls. This is illegal without consent in many states.

I should probably go to jail for all the calls I recorded, but I can't see where there is a liability problem for recording calls without permission if I am the only person who knows about the recordings and the only person who has access to the recordings. I would never play a recording back to someone who did not give me permission to record the conversation.
I am always thinking about the video cameras in my office where I have two microphones connected to the camera. One is an Amazon microphone that sits in front of my keyboard and it is so sensitive it can hear conversations on my phone with my phone speaker off, but since I am 71-years old, 100% deaf in one ear and 50% deaf in the other ear, I always turn my speakers on when talking on my cell phone and my cameras and microphones pick up every conversation. Does that mean I am illegally recording conversations when my office cameras pick them up.
Another thing I do is I've had a few lawsuits where I used one of those free software programs to transcribe phone conversations. I edited the transcripts and did not mention in court how I created the transcript, but I did show the judge the word-for-word conversation between myself and plaintiffs.

Ooooops!!! Now that I told everyone on BP I'm doomed to go to prison. I seriously can't understand why there are laws that restrict people from recording any types of conversations. I think the laws were enacted to stop people from spying on each other in regards to personal matters and the laws don't really apply to business matters. Why would an applicant expect to be protected by any privacy laws? Why would laws purposely protect people when telling lies about business matters? It doesn't make sense and I am willing to take my chances and willing to explain to a judge why I record business phone calls. The laws do state that it is legal to record conversation without the other party's permission when a crime is being perpetrated, or whatever you call it.
1 Reply
Barney Davis
Rental Property Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2019 · 33 posts · 9 votes
4y
@Dorys Prentice just tell him you’re still accepting applications and you’ll reach out if he makes the cut. Simple. Always trust your gut. I’ve learned the ones that are real eager are trouble. I’ll leave it vacant for 3 months before I take a bad tenant just to fill it…
1 Reply
John Clark
Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
4y
Corporate liability only is bad, since the owners can move money around and make the company judgment proof. If you lease to a corporation for its employees to use, then you need a personal guarantee from each owner. You also need the company (and owners) to agree to limit the boarders to active employees, and make them responsible (complete with indemnification of you) for evicting former (for whatever reason) employees within X days of loss/ change of employment status.

And that's just a few of the considerations you'll have. Your lawyer can give you more.

If a big corporation wants to rent and use it for employees, sure. You know Microsoft and BNSF Railroad are good for it. Your lease needs to be more extensive and you need to check with city hall about such arrangements, but you'll get paid and your apartment repaired. Joe Schmuckatelli and his local "company" looking for a flophouse for seasonal/low-paid employees? Hard pass.
1 Reply
Account Closed
Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2020 · 562 posts · 554 votes
4y
@Dorys Prentice they have not and apparently cannot provide an application for everyone who is going to live in the house. Therefore the application is not complete and can be rejected.
If you want to go through the motions to make sure you are covered, send them the link to apply. When 4 different people don’t fill it out it is not complete.
1 Reply
Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
4y

Sorry! I briefly read a post stating that Oregon landlords have to accept the first qualified applicant. As a landlord, I seriously feel like the government is trying to squeeze us out of business. I was looking on the internet for information about having to rent to the first qualified applicant and did not find any information. Perhaps, you can post a link.
I think many landlords have all their applicants calls go to voicemail and the landlords have as little personal contact as possible. Everyone knows that voicemails are recorded. Then, put Boldbeast recorder on a cell phone and tell everyone the call is being recorded if you are required to in your state. While you would think most applicants are polite on the phone I find that a high percent make statements that disqualify them.
I think whether or not you expose yourself to being sues revolves around whether or not you have a precise set of rules you use that you apply when reviewing each applicant. It used to be, before our country change to socialism, that as long as we applied the same rules to every applicant and documented every applicant's application we could still get sued, but had a better chance of winning in a court.
It is super easy today to document every phone call, text message, applications and pictures so we have a better chance of winning in court. I've had Boldbeast recorder on my phone for several years and I love it. To get it record the callers' phone numbers do not download the software from Play Store or whatever you call it. To get it to record phone numbers download it onto your phone directly from a Goolgle or Chrome Boldbeast recorder website and it costs only $9.99 for life.
Just last week, one of my employees told me something on the phone about a job and I was super angry and about to fire him. Then, he told me he did not tell me on the phone what I thought I heard. So, I played the call back to him and I was correct. Sometimes, I am wrong and that can be weird when I can't even remember what I said. Every few months I plug the phone into my computer and transfer all the phone calls, text messages and pictures to a hard drive.
I was the most horrible business person when it came to saving emails and I never kept important emails. Now, I switched to Gmail and purchased a software for about $29 from a company called Gmail Backup Wizard by Recovery Tools and it transfers all my emails to my computer and will delete them from Gmail at the same time if you want to delete them. I find it much easier to find past emails on my computer than on Gmail.

Just make sure to follow state laws regarding recording voice calls. This is illegal without consent in many states.

I should probably go to jail for all the calls I recorded, but I can't see where there is a liability problem for recording calls without permission if I am the only person who knows about the recordings and the only person who has access to the recordings. I would never play a recording back to someone who did not give me permission to record the conversation.
I am always thinking about the video cameras in my office where I have two microphones connected to the camera. One is an Amazon microphone that sits in front of my keyboard and it is so sensitive it can hear conversations on my phone with my phone speaker off, but since I am 71-years old, 100% deaf in one ear and 50% deaf in the other ear, I always turn my speakers on when talking on my cell phone and my cameras and microphones pick up every conversation. Does that mean I am illegally recording conversations when my office cameras pick them up.
Another thing I do is I've had a few lawsuits where I used one of those free software programs to transcribe phone conversations. I edited the transcripts and did not mention in court how I created the transcript, but I did show the judge the word-for-word conversation between myself and plaintiffs.

Ooooops!!! Now that I told everyone on BP I'm doomed to go to prison. I seriously can't understand why there are laws that restrict people from recording any types of conversations. I think the laws were enacted to stop people from spying on each other in regards to personal matters and the laws don't really apply to business matters. Why would an applicant expect to be protected by any privacy laws? Why would laws purposely protect people when telling lies about business matters? It doesn't make sense and I am willing to take my chances and willing to explain to a judge why I record business phone calls. The laws do state that it is legal to record conversation without the other party's permission when a crime is being perpetrated, or whatever you call it.

You are the one who said you were recording calls to protect yourself. Now you say nobody knows you record calls, so it kind of seems to defeat the purpose. You can "recall" a transcript of a call and the tenant can just say it never happened. I don't think the judge will be impressed when you produce a recorded call (in a state that requires two party consent). Most businesses disclose that a call is being recorded and many call recording devices insert beeps every 15 seconds. That would be the easy way for you to record and comply with the law.
0 Reply
Mary M.
Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
4y
BP is a great place for general info but remember that every locale has their own rules - some areas have rules about things mentioned here. So first LEARN THE LAWS IN YOUR LOCALE. Then you will know what is possible and wont trip up over some idea posted by someone who wont pay if you make a costly mistake.
For example - in my locale if you deny an applicant for various reasons they legally can give you more information and you must consider it.
Usually there will be local rental owners associations that put on trainings and those are great resources.
0 Reply
Account Closed
Member since 2020 · 983 posts · 1k+ votes
4y
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
@Account Closed, @Bruce Woodruff, @Terrell Garren why yes, I do try to follow the law, especially if not following it would possibly get me sued..... But you guys can say you would never do this or that and that is fine..... you dont live and work here and honestly its not that hard of as law to maneuver.... good strong criteria, a good class of RE, writing ads that draw the right people, and finally talking to folks before you even show the unit. The law is that we must accept the first "qualified applicant". This means the person needs to fill out an application and pass all my screening..... I dont do open houses, I dont allow anyone to apply to a unit unless I send them a link.... Are some of the laws here silly and end up costing tenants more money? why yes - but that is a debate for another thread.... to play the game I gotta follow the rules.... >shrug<

Sorry! I briefly read a post stating that Oregon landlords have to accept the first qualified applicant. As a landlord, I seriously feel like the government is trying to squeeze us out of business. I was looking on the internet for information about having to rent to the first qualified applicant and did not find any information. Perhaps, you can post a link.
I think many landlords have all their applicants calls go to voicemail and the landlords have as little personal contact as possible. Everyone knows that voicemails are recorded. Then, put Boldbeast recorder on a cell phone and tell everyone the call is being recorded if you are required to in your state. While you would think most applicants are polite on the phone I find that a high percent make statements that disqualify them.
I think whether or not you expose yourself to being sues revolves around whether or not you have a precise set of rules you use that you apply when reviewing each applicant. It used to be, before our country change to socialism, that as long as we applied the same rules to every applicant and documented every applicant's application we could still get sued, but had a better chance of winning in a court.
It is super easy today to document every phone call, text message, applications and pictures so we have a better chance of winning in court. I've had Boldbeast recorder on my phone for several years and I love it. To get it record the callers' phone numbers do not download the software from Play Store or whatever you call it. To get it to record phone numbers download it onto your phone directly from a Goolgle or Chrome Boldbeast recorder website and it costs only $9.99 for life.
Just last week, one of my employees told me something on the phone about a job and I was super angry and about to fire him. Then, he told me he did not tell me on the phone what I thought I heard. So, I played the call back to him and I was correct. Sometimes, I am wrong and that can be weird when I can't even remember what I said. Every few months I plug the phone into my computer and transfer all the phone calls, text messages and pictures to a hard drive.
I was the most horrible business person when it came to saving emails and I never kept important emails. Now, I switched to Gmail and purchased a software for about $29 from a company called Gmail Backup Wizard by Recovery Tools and it transfers all my emails to my computer and will delete them from Gmail at the same time if you want to delete them. I find it much easier to find past emails on my computer than on Gmail.

Just make sure to follow state laws regarding recording voice calls. This is illegal without consent in many states.

I should probably go to jail for all the calls I recorded, but I can't see where there is a liability problem for recording calls without permission if I am the only person who knows about the recordings and the only person who has access to the recordings. I would never play a recording back to someone who did not give me permission to record the conversation.
I am always thinking about the video cameras in my office where I have two microphones connected to the camera. One is an Amazon microphone that sits in front of my keyboard and it is so sensitive it can hear conversations on my phone with my phone speaker off, but since I am 71-years old, 100% deaf in one ear and 50% deaf in the other ear, I always turn my speakers on when talking on my cell phone and my cameras and microphones pick up every conversation. Does that mean I am illegally recording conversations when my office cameras pick them up.
Another thing I do is I've had a few lawsuits where I used one of those free software programs to transcribe phone conversations. I edited the transcripts and did not mention in court how I created the transcript, but I did show the judge the word-for-word conversation between myself and plaintiffs.

Ooooops!!! Now that I told everyone on BP I'm doomed to go to prison. I seriously can't understand why there are laws that restrict people from recording any types of conversations. I think the laws were enacted to stop people from spying on each other in regards to personal matters and the laws don't really apply to business matters. Why would an applicant expect to be protected by any privacy laws? Why would laws purposely protect people when telling lies about business matters? It doesn't make sense and I am willing to take my chances and willing to explain to a judge why I record business phone calls. The laws do state that it is legal to record conversation without the other party's permission when a crime is being perpetrated, or whatever you call it.

You are the one who said you were recording calls to protect yourself. Now you say nobody knows you record calls, so it kind of seems to defeat the purpose. You can "recall" a transcript of a call and the tenant can just say it never happened. I don't think the judge will be impressed when you produce a recorded call (in a state that requires two party consent). Most businesses disclose that a call is being recorded and many call recording devices insert beeps every 15 seconds. That would be the easy way for you to record and comply with the law.

It is fairly well-known that one of the most important tools to win in court is to have every detail in chronological order sort of like a diary with the tiniest of details. The second most important thing for winning is to have ever piece of paper organized to the defendant can spend more time and mental energy focusing on what the right things and wrong things he should say as the Plaintiff is throwing crap at the judge. I would never bring the recording to court, but it is also super critical to be able to say:
On January 10th, inside your apartment, at exactly 10:05 am the Plaintiff told me in these exact words, "I am not going to pay my rent because my next door neighbor scratched my car." Or, whatever!
I've been a salesman my entire life and am a firm believer that when selling things it is super critical to be able to speak with conviction. To state that in another way, it is better to have recordings so I personally know that what I am telling the judge is 100% true and the tenant can lie his face off, but speaking the truth and with conviction is critical for winning.
For many years, I put an 8-hour VCR tape in my work truck and I put a wireless microphone the same as musicians use in my top shirt pocket. The microphone had a 700 foot range. I went into customer homes, had them sign a statement acknowledging that I was recording our conversation. On one occasion, I was speaking with the husband and wife and the husband refused to listen while he kept playing with his grandchild. I kept trying to get his attention, but he still refused to listen. So, we signed a contract for about $10,000 and the next day the husband called me a thief, liar and told me I never told him the details about the scope of the work. So, I pulled my VCR out of my truck and the instant I turned in on the husband told me to stop the recording and shut his big lying mouth.
I'm not anybody's daddy on BP and not telling anyone to break any laws. Put a beep or your recorder or tell them you are recording everyone if if make you happy. Or...be a liar like everyone else and just say, "this call may be recorded for training purposes." That statement makes me so angry I stop the person from talking and ask them to clarify whether or not the call is being recorded and then to get back at them I tell them I don''t want to be recorded and they lie a second time and tell me they turned the recorder off.
1 Reply
Ilsy Alexandra Baza
Real Estate Agent · Miami, FL · Member since 2018 · 1 post · 0 votes
4y
@DoryPeters. I agree with @Dave E. and @ScottM. I have been a Property manager and a landlord for more than 10 years. My recommendation: credit check for everyone over 18 without exceptions. Do not take anyone with a credit score under 650 (and advertise it). It may take some effort but it's your best bet to find someone with a track record of playing by the rules. We try hard to stick to that as much as we can and unfortunately the very few times we have made an exemption, it has come back to bite us... no good deed goes unpunished. Last year we only had problems with those 2 or 3 tenants among 60. Bonus: YOU CANNOT FAKE A CREDIT SCORE: if they are in any way shaky it will show there. About the intrusive questions what people need to understand is that they do at home and who they bring along is part of our business.
0 Reply
Grey Stone
Investor · Palmdale · Member since 2016 · 112 posts · 80 votes
4y
Write down a detailed criteria that clearly states your screening criteria. Of course, you can't discriminate against a protected class, however if an applicant lies on their application I automatically deny them. I also don't allow subleasing, anyone over the age of 18 must be on the lease and pass my screening criteria. Anything you do for one, you must do for all. I document every conversation with notes or have them text me. I use Google Voice and it records and transcribes voicemails and texts to my email. Also, the higher your rent the more likely you are to experience this. The higher your rent, you are limiting your rental pool. If you had more qualified applicants this wouldn't be an issue, just a thought. Good luck!
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Lisa DuFaux
Realtor · New Port Richey, FL · Member since 2011 · 48 posts · 20 votes
4y
It's interesting how many replies there are on this! My first reaction was about the comment that this person is insistent on renting the house. I have been in that situation twice and learned a hard lesson. Both times I rented to them and both times I regretted it. Usually when there is urgency, there's a good reason like they're getting evicted from somewhere else or no one else will rent to them because of background check. I would say the lack of transparency about who the actual tenants will be is a perfectly fine reason to decline.
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Jason Munger
Rental Property Investor · Lansing, MI · Member since 2017 · 58 posts · 18 votes
4y
Decline the application and don't tell him why. Simple as that. Or tell them you only want/can rent to single family.
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Alexander Szikla
Real Estate Agent · New York City · Member since 2020 · 818 posts · 639 votes
4y
This has nothing to do with discrimination. Every adult living at the house should be required to fill out a credit report. Regardless of their race, ethnicity, creed, gender, sexual orientation, country of origin, profession, eye color or favorite flavor of ice cream.
If other people are staying (for unreasonable periods) they are in violation (so long as your lease has the proper language).
Just make your criteria clear ahead of time, communicate it properly and communicate it to all applicants and you won't have an issue - you aren't doing anything wrong.
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Kristi Dunn
Garland, TX · Member since 2015 · 4 posts · 2 votes
4y
@Dorys Prentice just rent to someone else and advise him the property was rented to the most qualified applicant. Beyond that you owe no one an excuse for your property as long as your not discriminating on a protected class.
1 Reply
Paul Clements
Member since 2021 · 39 posts · 18 votes
3y

Agree with others, you don't need to give him any explanation. You're not discriminating based on national origin, but even if you secretly were, he would have to prove that.

If the house is sitting for months in March April and May with no qualified applicants, maybe you need to lower the rent. If people feel they have to pack the space with a dozen people to justify paying it, that's not a good sign. Even dropping it $100 might dramatically increase your applicant pool. OK, so you 'lost' $1200 (assuming you ever could have gotten that rent [with a good tenant] to begin with). But how much has the prolonged vacancy cost you thus far, $4-6-8k?

If people perceive it as a bad deal, they won't apply, even if they can afford it. Although you may attract scammers who don't intend on paying in the first place. The more you try to squeeze every last dollar, the fewer the applicants, the worse the tenants, the less they like you, the more they want to screw you, the shorter they stay. There's a balance to be struck of course, and I do set prices near market.

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