Tenant threatens to withhold rent?

OP

Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @David P.:

Just came across a late night call with one of my tenants. His family has been living there over a year and I would consider them good tenants. They warned me before that the front tenants dogs (pitbulls) are sometimes unleashed and unintended.

I already warned the front tenant about this issue but today it blew up. The duplex is situated front and back. One of the young kids in front left the backyard gate open and the dogs were running around inside the rear tenants garage when they had the door open. They do have a young daughter so that is the rear tenants fear. Basically he had enough and called me and said if the dogs are not gone by tomorrow he will stop paying rent. This felt very unreasonable at the moment withe able to remedy a solution.

After some back and forth we came up with a solution where I place a lock on the gate and make the gate inaccessible. The front tenant asked for one more chance so they are on board of not using that gate anymore and instead use the other side gate that faces the street for any pet duties. The rear tenant seem content and everything seem worked out. It didn't sit well with me afterwards. I understand his issue and he has brought it up before but threatening me with rent seem not right. Can he actually win in court with his reasons? He told me he didn't mind going to court I'm front of judge so alot of things were said tonight. I did discover from front tenant he had a medical emergency 2 days ago and was in hospital for irregular heartbeat where he collapsed at home and ambulance came. His first back and this situation happened so I can understand the stress.

Okay, he can't withold rent for the reason stated. It's unreasonable to expect this to be resolved in 24 hours. Don't sweat the small stuff.

You do have a duty to protect those kids though and you've been notified of the danger. Do sweat the big stuff. Pitbulls have been known to kill people. Your insurance may or may not cover pitbulls. It depends on the policy.

People rarely follow through with threats of lawsuits. Those that do want to follow through rarely find an attorney willing to take the case unless it is a "solid" case. In court, he would have to prove damages. It doesn't sound like there are any damages at this point. What would he sur about and what are his damages? He is not understanding what a lawsuit is.

If both tenants can safely leave the property in the event of a fire with the gate locked, then there shouldn't be any problem locking the gate.

I would just lock the gate. I'd also issue a written warning that the dogs are sometimes left unattended and that is not acceptable and is in violation of the rental agreement and keep a copy.

Thanks. Good points brought up. I think when he mentioned judge and court he meant if I tried to evict them for withholding rent for that reason alone. No damages have been done and it is not something that has happened regularly. I think I got notified twice in one year regarding the dogs being unleashed. Today situation was bad because not only unleased but unattended and inside the other tenant garage. The gate I will lock is just a yard gate that is near the rear tenants house and the front unit still has another gate to let out the pets that faces the front main street. This should solve majority of issues and limit any interactions the rear has with the pets.

Glad to hear someone else agrees it's unreasonable for them to think I can get another family to get rid of their pets within 24 hours.

Chris SeveneyBusiness Member

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Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes

@David P.

They cannot with hold paying rent but you have been notified of a serious threat to their safety and that should be taken seriously.

If it were move I would move to evict the other tenant immediately and never ever would I allow a pit bull in any of my rentals.

I love dogs and I know most pit bulls are not harmful animals, but this is an instance where you get sued any umbrella insurance policy will not cover you and you would have zero protection if it's in a LLC and you would be sued personally as owner and property manager

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Wesley W.

Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

I'm with @Chris Seveney. I would absolutely terminate the lease of the front tenant as early as allowed (minimally, send a notice to cure immediately). It sounds like you've addressed the dogs with them before, and their lifestyle and lack of responsibility is writing checks that you may have to cash. This is reason #38 why I only offer MTM leases.

I like the idea of mitigating your business risk by locking the gate, but this is not a long-term practical solution. Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. These dogs are not being policed by their owners, and that is creating a liability for you.

Simultaneously with the notice to cure, I would also memorialize in writing your conversations and concerns about the dog to your tenant and send them a certified letter. You need to start mitigating your liability ASAP.

I would also encourage your complaining tenant to call animal control as soon as there is an issue to start creating documentation on that end as well.

However, at the end of the day, if there is an incident, your tenant's attorney will always go after the deeper pockets, which will be you. Even if you put these temporary firewalls above in place, it still takes time, money and emotional energy to fight a lawsuit you may eventually win.

This also why I am with Chris and do not allow any aggressive breeds in our rentals. I get the conversation about "it's the owner, not the dog." That could be true, but I'm not interested in using that philosophy in my business operations. I'll let some other landlord take that (in my opinion, unnecessary) risk.

Good luck!

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Tom GimerBusiness Member

DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

Depending on where the property is located, the tenant may be able to bring an action for rent escrow, allowing the tenant to temporarily pay rent to an escrow account, and have the court decide if this is a condition so dangerous that it warrants the suspension of rent paid to the landlord until it is remedied.

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

@Chris Seveney and @Wesley W. have good points. I think your concerns are misplaced though.....

If I were you, I wouldn't be concerned about the tenant not paying rent, I would be more concerned about your liability

You have had an incident and you now know about the situation....if anything bad happened, you would be in serious jeopardy.

I'd focus on getting rid of the front tenant....what does your lease say about all this? Is the Pit legal? If so, why?

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OP

Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

@Chris Seveney and @Wesley W. have good points. I think your concerns are misplaced though.....

If I were you, I wouldn't be concerned about the tenant not paying rent, I would be more concerned about your liability

You have had an incident and you now know about the situation....if anything bad happened, you would be in serious jeopardy.

I'd focus on getting rid of the front tenant....what does your lease say about all this? Is the Pit legal? If so, why?

Thanks everyone. So to answer the question about the front tenants I never allowed them pets to begin with. They are MTM lease so once eviction moratorium in LA county is lifted I have some leverage. They moved in during the pandemic after passing all my screening checks but things still happened. They are still paying rent but they do break the rules with more occupancy and pets. I have gone to the property many times and it looks still well taken care of so I have let things slide while I don't have much leverage. I do have an umbrella policy with State Farm that does not restrict dog breeds. My rental dwelling policy is with AAA though which may have a restriction.

The pitbull is not violent but is overly rowdy. Basically jumps around on people like crazy but never has bitten me or shown aggression to me. Due to the daughter only being 2 yrs old I can still see any dog knocked her over could cause harm so there is for sure concern. I told them before to get renters insurance and I think I'm going bring it up again with them.

Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

Get these people out! The eviction moratorium did not have anything to do with violating a lease as far as I know. Hire an attorney tomorrow and get started.

6 Reply

OP

Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Get these people out! The eviction moratorium did not have anything to do with violating a lease as far as I know. Hire an attorney tomorrow and get started.

We can still not do at fault eviction until next year if not extended again. Eviction is my last resort.

Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

Quote from @David P.:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Get these people out! The eviction moratorium did not have anything to do with violating a lease as far as I know. Hire an attorney tomorrow and get started.

We can still not do at fault eviction until next year if not extended again. Eviction is my last resort.

Eviction is your last resort even when it is allowed? Or just now? You have a tenant who has violated your lease and is causing a danger to others......

Henry T.

Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

https://www.jamico.com/los-ang...

Remind me to never be a landlord in LA...sheesh. If this is correct, there is no eviction for unauthorized pets or occupants. He is stuck with these lease breakers until Jan 2023, at the least.

Prohibitions on Evictions and Increases:

No “no-fault” evictions except if an owner wants to move into a single-family home, duplex or triplex, but ONLY IF the purchased the property prior to June 2021. A no-fault eviction is where a tenant has not violated their lease but the owner still wants to recover the unit for remodel, to live in it themselves, or a myriad of other reasons.
- There are no evictions allowed if a tenant is a nuisance and may be disturbing the quality of life of other residents or for refusing allow an owner to enter a unit, which is often necessary to make repairs or when a tenant is a hoarder.
- Also, there are no evictions allowed for bringing in extra occupants or pets in violation of a lease.
- Finally, starting April 1st, owners cannot evict for non-payment of rent. Tenants merely have to “self-certify” that they are impacted by COVID and cannot pay rent – no proof of any kind is required.
- On top of all this, no rent increases are permitted for properties subject to the County’s rent stabilization ordinance.
- Tenants merely need to “self-certify” they are impacted by COVID and qualify for these protections, and

5 Reply

OP

Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes

https://www.jamico.com/los-ang...

Quote from @Henry T.:

Remind me to never be a landlord in LA...sheesh. If this is correct, there is no eviction for unauthorized pets or occupants. He is stuck with these lease breakers until Jan 2023, at the least.

Prohibitions on Evictions and Increases:

No “no-fault” evictions except if an owner wants to move into a single-family home, duplex or triplex, but ONLY IF the purchased the property prior to June 2021. A no-fault eviction is where a tenant has not violated their lease but the owner still wants to recover the unit for remodel, to live in it themselves, or a myriad of other reasons.
- There are no evictions allowed if a tenant is a nuisance and may be disturbing the quality of life of other residents or for refusing allow an owner to enter a unit, which is often necessary to make repairs or when a tenant is a hoarder.
- Also, there are no evictions allowed for bringing in extra occupants or pets in violation of a lease.
- Finally, starting April 1st, owners cannot evict for non-payment of rent. Tenants merely have to “self-certify” that they are impacted by COVID and cannot pay rent – no proof of any kind is required.
- On top of all this, no rent increases are permitted for properties subject to the County’s rent stabilization ordinance.
- Tenants merely need to “self-certify” they are impacted by COVID and qualify for these protections, and

Yup that is what I'm referring to. No power to landlords right now so screening very important which I thought I did but occupants and pets is something the screening process may not catch. I made them do the full online mysmartmove application, stalked them on Facebook but things still slip through.

James Wise

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes

Quote from @David P.:

Just came across a late night call with one of my tenants. His family has been living there over a year and I would consider them good tenants. They warned me before that the front tenants dogs (pitbulls) are sometimes unleashed and unintended.

I already warned the front tenant about this issue but today it blew up. The duplex is situated front and back. One of the young kids in front left the backyard gate open and the dogs were running around inside the rear tenants garage when they had the door open. They do have a young daughter so that is the rear tenants fear. Basically he had enough and called me and said if the dogs are not gone by tomorrow he will stop paying rent. This felt very unreasonable at the moment withe able to remedy a solution.

After some back and forth we came up with a solution where I place a lock on the gate and make the gate inaccessible. The front tenant asked for one more chance so they are on board of not using that gate anymore and instead use the other side gate that faces the street for any pet duties. The rear tenant seem content and everything seem worked out. It didn't sit well with me afterwards. I understand his issue and he has brought it up before but threatening me with rent seem not right. Can he actually win in court with his reasons? He told me he didn't mind going to court in front of judge so alot of things were said tonight. I did discover from front tenant he had a medical emergency 2 days ago and was in hospital for irregular heartbeat where he collapsed at home and ambulance came. His first day back and this situation happened so I can understand the stress.

If he doesn't pay rent, evict him.

Wesley W.

Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @David P.:

Just came across a late night call with one of my tenants. His family has been living there over a year and I would consider them good tenants. They warned me before that the front tenants dogs (pitbulls) are sometimes unleashed and unintended.

I already warned the front tenant about this issue but today it blew up. The duplex is situated front and back. One of the young kids in front left the backyard gate open and the dogs were running around inside the rear tenants garage when they had the door open. They do have a young daughter so that is the rear tenants fear. Basically he had enough and called me and said if the dogs are not gone by tomorrow he will stop paying rent. This felt very unreasonable at the moment withe able to remedy a solution.

After some back and forth we came up with a solution where I place a lock on the gate and make the gate inaccessible. The front tenant asked for one more chance so they are on board of not using that gate anymore and instead use the other side gate that faces the street for any pet duties. The rear tenant seem content and everything seem worked out. It didn't sit well with me afterwards. I understand his issue and he has brought it up before but threatening me with rent seem not right. Can he actually win in court with his reasons? He told me he didn't mind going to court in front of judge so alot of things were said tonight. I did discover from front tenant he had a medical emergency 2 days ago and was in hospital for irregular heartbeat where he collapsed at home and ambulance came. His first day back and this situation happened so I can understand the stress.

If he doesn't pay rent, evict him.

That's wrong tenant he is trying to cut loose from, ironically.

What POSes those elected officials are. No wonder he is threatening you with a rent strike, even though it's his neighbor that is breaking the law (leash, at least). Entitlement in these ones. Cripes. Anyone who continues to invest in these areas seriously needs to have their head examined.

Maybe show the victimized tenant that your hands are legally tied, although that may open up Pandora's Box.

OP

Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes

Quote from @Wesley W.:

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @David P.:

Just came across a late night call with one of my tenants. His family has been living there over a year and I would consider them good tenants. They warned me before that the front tenants dogs (pitbulls) are sometimes unleashed and unintended.

I already warned the front tenant about this issue but today it blew up. The duplex is situated front and back. One of the young kids in front left the backyard gate open and the dogs were running around inside the rear tenants garage when they had the door open. They do have a young daughter so that is the rear tenants fear. Basically he had enough and called me and said if the dogs are not gone by tomorrow he will stop paying rent. This felt very unreasonable at the moment withe able to remedy a solution.

After some back and forth we came up with a solution where I place a lock on the gate and make the gate inaccessible. The front tenant asked for one more chance so they are on board of not using that gate anymore and instead use the other side gate that faces the street for any pet duties. The rear tenant seem content and everything seem worked out. It didn't sit well with me afterwards. I understand his issue and he has brought it up before but threatening me with rent seem not right. Can he actually win in court with his reasons? He told me he didn't mind going to court in front of judge so alot of things were said tonight. I did discover from front tenant he had a medical emergency 2 days ago and was in hospital for irregular heartbeat where he collapsed at home and ambulance came. His first day back and this situation happened so I can understand the stress.

If he doesn't pay rent, evict him.

That's wrong tenant he is trying to cut loose from, ironically...

Ya, last night when things blew up I wasn't sure what to do and I could potentially be put in a situation where neither tenant wants to pay rent. I'm glad they are both on board with the gate solution because if they weren't I could see a situation where neither side wants to pay rent and I would need to evict both.

Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

Quote from @Henry T.:

Remind me to never be a landlord in LA...sheesh. If this is correct, there is no eviction for unauthorized pets or occupants. He is stuck with these lease breakers until Jan 2023, at the least.

Yep...that's why so many of us are fleeing to greener pastures.... :-)

Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

Quote from @David P.:

So you intend to let the tenant with illegal pet just keep it? 🤨

Harish V.

Investor · Fremont, CA · Member since 2015 · 211 posts · 125 votes

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @David P.:

So you intend to let the tenant with illegal pet just keep it? 🤨

Not paying rent will be breach of lease and may result in start of eviction. However, tenant is entitled to quiet enjoyment of the property. They may ask to be put in hotel if they see dogs as unsafe or disturbing quiet enjoyment. Check with lawyer what's the burden of proof for quiet enjoyment.

Matt Bishop

Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2020 · 161 posts · 88 votes

@David P. Why in the world would you rent to pit bull owners in the first place? I'd much rather have a vacant unit than have the type of tenant who would own a pit bull. Does your insurance company know about this?

Jason Smith

Member since 2021 · 109 posts · 130 votes

@Matt Bishop The poster said the dogs and extra guests are lease violations but he cannot do anything about it to Jan 2023 at the earliest because of Los Angeles Covid eviction laws. The government is saying he can't kick out a tenant that poses a threat to others, but the government is not gonna pay the lawsuit if the 2 year old neighbor is mauled to death. The eviction nightmare stories coming out of New York and California are crazy.

Nancy P.

Naperville, IL · Member since 2018 · 330 posts · 357 votes

I just want to address your OP where you said his threatening to not pay rent "did not sit right". Please let that go. Men who feel their tiny daughters are in danger say whatever it takes to make him feel his child is safe again. I'm shocked at the eviction laws currently in place. I'd at least call Animal Control. Maybe they can get rid of the dog where you can't, or cite them for not monitoring the dog well.

OP

Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes

Quote from @Nancy P.:

I just want to address your OP where you said his threatening to not pay rent "did not sit right". Please let that go. Men who feel their tiny daughters are in danger say whatever it takes to make him feel his child is safe again. I'm shocked at the eviction laws currently in place. I'd at least call Animal Control. Maybe they can get rid of the dog where you can't, or cite them for not monitoring the dog well.

So worst possible outcome happened today. While putting on the lock the dogs attacked me and I had to go-to ER. Pretty gruesome. At this point I'm lost for words. They assured me the dogs are gone and won't be there anymore.

Nancy P.

Naperville, IL · Member since 2018 · 330 posts · 357 votes

HOLY F*(^ING COW! David, I hope you are OK! That looks really painful. How long do they expect your recovery to take? The dogs need to be put down, not just removed. PLEASE call animal control, the police, anybody who can help!

5 Reply

Account Closed

Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes

That looks bad. Where are all the pitbull defenders now? This is the reason insurers won't cover aggressive breeds. And you should not allow them in your rentals.

4 Reply

Dan H.Pro Member

Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes

Quote from @Chris Seveney:

@David P.

They cannot with hold paying rent but you have been notified of a serious threat to their safety and that should be taken seriously.

If it were move I would move to evict the other tenant immediately and never ever would I allow a pit bull in any of my rentals.

I love dogs and I know most pit bulls are not harmful animals, but this is an instance where you get sued any umbrella insurance policy will not cover you and you would have zero protection if it's in a LLC and you would be sued personally as owner and property manager

>any umbrella insurance policy will not cover you

No umbrella coverage that I have ever received a quote has a pit bull exclusion and all would cover this. I have been quoted one that did not cover slander, but the one I purchased covers virtually everything.