Hot steamy showers - and dripping condensation

Investor · Gig Harbor, WA · Member since 2013 · 9 posts · 2 votes

I rented to a woman with two children. It turned out the her "children" are big strapping 17 and 18-yearolds.

The three of them like to take hot steamy showers. The rental is 2-bedroom, one bath duplex with electric baseboard heating.

Interior humidity level is always very high and condensation is problem. It's a cooler/cold climate (western Washington state).

I upgraded the bath fan to 100 cfm (double previous fan's cfm) and added a timer switch so that they could leave the fan on to go to work/school.

Even so, it is still far to humid in the house.

Is there a solution to this problem of excessive interior moisture?

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Roy N.Pro Member

Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes

12y

@Rich Thomas

If the humidity is limited to, or centred on, the bathroom, I'd upgrade your switch to one with a humidistat and timer both (we do this with all our student rentals). A timer switch only works if it is engaged when the lights are turned on ... otherwise, they won't turn it on and set it.

We also put a 120cfm or 150cfm 4" or 6" low sone fan in the washrooms.

If the humidity issue is throughout the unit, then you might want to talk to an HVAC person about an air exchanger (heat recovery type of course).

BTW: Washington is not really that cold ;)

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Roy N.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
@Rich Thomas

If the humidity is limited to, or centred on, the bathroom, I'd upgrade your switch to one with a humidistat and timer both (we do this with all our student rentals). A timer switch only works if it is engaged when the lights are turned on ... otherwise, they won't turn it on and set it.

We also put a 120cfm or 150cfm 4" or 6" low sone fan in the washrooms.

If the humidity issue is throughout the unit, then you might want to talk to an HVAC person about an air exchanger (heat recovery type of course).

BTW: Washington is not really that cold ;)
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Joel OwensBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
12y
Anyone 18 years of age or older needs to be on the lease. At least where I am in GA that needs to be the case. Under 18 is considered a minor in my state for the lease.. Might be different where you are.

I take hot showers also but never a problem in my house. Are you sure they run the fan at the proper times? Some units have too much humidity in them period and you need a de-humidifier for air that is too thick and a humidifier for air that is too dry.
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Rich Thomas
OP
Investor · Gig Harbor, WA · Member since 2013 · 9 posts · 2 votes
12y
The unit has had 5, maybe 6 tenants over the last 14 years - never a problem until these folks moved in.

We've discussed the humidity problem - the oldest girl has sinus problems. I put a calibrated humidistat in so that they could see the effect of running the fan and leaving the window open a bit.

An electric furnace will dry out the air, but this unit has electric baseboard heating which does not affect humidity. They've admitted taking hot steamy showers - we know the source of the problem.

This unit is due for a new roof next year. . .perhaps a new more robust ventilation system?
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John H.
Massachusetts, MA · Member since 2009 · 144 posts · 31 votes
12y
My friend had a 60CFM fan in his own house and with 4 family members, the shower walls were always dripping. He upgraded to a 110CFM and there was no difference. He asked me about it and I gave him a 300CFM fan I had collecting dust, and he now has a clear mirror after long showers, as well as dry walls. Only downside...he says its cold now as the room is a wind tunnel.

This is like the fan I gave him, and its not much more $$$ than the 100cfm's.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/NuTone-QuietTest-300-CFM-Ceiling-Exhaust-Fan-QT300/100076143#

These are a bit bigger than the 100's, so check if your ceiling has enough room for a box this size.
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Zach Schwarzmiller
Investor · Snohomish, WA · Member since 2013 · 629 posts · 84 votes
12y
I installed fans on timers that turn on automatically four times throughout the day for 1-2 hour increments when I had that issue in a house. I can't guarantee they will be on during the shower but I was able to guarantee they were on for a decent while everyday as the tenants weren't using the fans at all.
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Gerald K.
Real Estate Investor · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2012 · 480 posts · 116 votes
12y
We put this fan timer in a bathroom in one of our rentals.

http://www.amazon.com/Air-King-AKDT60-Delay-Switch/dp/B000EVWFPS/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1387049778&sr=8-13&keywords=fan+timer

It can be set up in many different ways. We set it up so that when the vent fan is turned off it stays on for a predetermined time before shutting off. It can also be set up with the light switch - after the light is turned off, the fan keeps running for a predetermined time. I wonder if they're trying to create a steamy area for the daughter to breath for her sinus problem(?)
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Michael Quarles
Flipper/Rehabber · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
Hot steamy showers - and dripping condensation

Anyone else have their mind in the gutter when they read the topic description?
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Zach Schwarzmiller
Investor · Snohomish, WA · Member since 2013 · 629 posts · 84 votes
12y
@Gerald K. - That's a great idea, I like that.
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Mary B.
Real Estate Investor · Lansdowne, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 656 votes
12y
@Michael Quarles

@Michael Quarles

YOU CAUGHT ME, LOL... I thought BP had a new category when I read the title of the post. Naughty minds think alike..... :-)

Kudos,

Mary
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Gerald K.
Real Estate Investor · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2012 · 480 posts · 116 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Zach Schwarzmiller:
@Gerald K. - That's a great idea, I like that.

Yeah, it seemed to work for us. The cycling on multiple times per day as you indicated might even work better in this situation. When we were researching fan timers, we considered a humidistat switch timer, but weren't sure about their reliablility as some reviews reported them as not always triggering even during very humid conditions.
0 Reply
Brian Mathews
Contractor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2013 · 767 posts · 389 votes
12y
A 100 cfm bath fan should be able to handle a bathroom up to about 800 cu. ft. Which is a 10x8 sq. ft bathroom with 10 ft ceiling. So that is pretty substantial, that's a bedroom. Is the bathfan vented to the outside of the structure or is it just vented into the attic? It needs venting to outside. You might have something else at play here. I'd have the plumbing system checked out, maybe you have a water leak in the slab or somewhere creating this problem.
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Rich Thomas
OP
Investor · Gig Harbor, WA · Member since 2013 · 9 posts · 2 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Brian Mathews:
A 100 cfm bath fan should be able to handle a bathroom up to about 800 cu. ft. Which is a 10x8 sq. ft bathroom with 10 ft ceiling. So that is pretty substantial, that's a bedroom. Is the bathfan vented to the outside of the structure or is it just vented into the attic? It needs venting to outside. You might have something else at play here. I'd have the plumbing system checked out, maybe you have a water leak in the slab or somewhere creating this problem.

My bad. . .It is an original fan - probably 50cfm - squirrel cage motor and it vents to the outside. Its housing won't fit the newer fan sizes - so I cleaned it thoroughly and it does suck air to the outside.

I threatened the tenants that I would put in a really big fan - and suck the air and heat out of the house. We've reached a compromise. . .they turn the baseboard heater on in the bathroom, crack the window open, turn on the fan. Then close the bathroom door to keep humidity inside. That seems to work at the moment. It still feels humid in the house though. But I don't know if they will follow that plan with any consistency.
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Robert Steele
Investor · Lucas, TX · Member since 2010 · 620 posts · 352 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Michael Quarles:

Hot steamy showers - and dripping condensation

Anyone else have their mind in the gutter when they read the topic description?

Yes.
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Dawn AnastasiPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
Originally posted by @Rich Thomas:
I rented to a woman with two children. It turned out the her "children" are big strapping 17 and 18-yearolds.

It "turned out" that her children are 17 and 18? This sentence made it sound like you didn't know when she applied that she had 17 and 18 year old children. Am I reading this wrong?
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Mathew Wray
Real Estate Agent · Portland, OR · Member since 2013 · 412 posts · 219 votes
12y
I had the same problem with my 60's era duplex, poor ventilation, poor fans, lots of humidity, poor insulation, and the fear of mold growth. I worked really hard to cover every base, had the fans upgraded, installed humidistat switch/sensors, increased venting and vans in the laundry area (next to the bathroom), and even bought a de-humidifier to go into the unit as well as reminding my tenants to run the fans, keep the windows open in the bathroom, etc. After all that it finally mitigated itself.

A good temporary idea to help bring home how home much moisture they're creating is to buy one of those moisture bags and hang it in their bedrooms. If the humidity is as bad as you say it is then the bag will fill really quick and show them, in a visual way they can't ignore, that they're inviting problems by not changing their habits. Also, if they're on a M2M or nearing the end of a year lease period, consider having them sign a mold addendum so you can, hopefully, hold them accountable for clean-up costs.

I feel your pain and wish you luck!
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Brandon TurnerPro Member
Investor · Maui, HI · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
Hey @Rich Thomas - I'm down near Aberdeen, so I know exactly what you are talking about. I have a few tenants who constantly have the same problems at my apartment complex, but all 24 units are identical, so it's clearly something the tenant is doing. I think the best you can do is to make sure thye keep their heat at a moderate level (not too high) and open their windows whenever it's not raining. Good luck! (and don't forget a profile photo! )
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Lynn Harrison
Garberville, CA · Member since 2011 · 184 posts · 6 votes
12y
My first thought is a small roof or window casing leak that is flowing through the walls and possibly across the interior of the ceiling before going down the interior of the wall. Had a major problem with condensation in my bath and it took about a year to figure it out as no water was showing on the interior finishes. Now that it's fixed- no problems. A sign of that is slight water collection at the base of one wall. If it's behind the toilet or under the cab it's easy to miss or attribute it to condensation.
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Eric Gutierrez
Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2012 · 155 posts · 41 votes
12y
You might wanna check how the ductwork for the bathfan was done up in the attic. You see some very interesting methods of venting bath fans if you look on a site like Inspectapedia an excessive amount of ductwork turns/ long runs will really hurt the true CFM of the bath fan. I have installed (3) Soler Palau TD100x inline bath fans and had them on the low speed wired to the light switch. Might waste a bit of electricity but it will make sure that it gets used. I like the inline fans because all you can hear in the bathroom is a very faint air whooshing noise.
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Eric Gutierrez
Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2012 · 155 posts · 41 votes
12y
Also, I find that any of the bath fans you buy at the big box stores tend to be extremely loud. Besides the TD100x, I really like panasonic fans. You might pay a bit more but I find loud bath fans to be extremely annoying. I would imagine I'm not the only person that dislikes the bath fans that sound like a small jet engine. I tend to think if its quiet they will be more likely to leave them on longer.
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Roy N.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
I'll second the vote for the panasonic fans! They are also designed to be easily installed in a retrofit scenario. They are all we have been using this last year.
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Michael S.
Rental Property Investor · Beaufort, SC · Member since 2013 · 82 posts · 7 votes
12y
@Eric Gutierrez @Roy N.

Some times its nice to have a noisy fan in the bathroom. It can help cover up the sound of what's happening in the bathroom, especially for the ones that guest use near the living areas. Not as big of a deal for the master suite though.
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Eric Gutierrez
Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2012 · 155 posts · 41 votes
12y
are we talking a rental or a private residence? If rental, I'd rather the the tenants forget the fan is even on and they let it run too much than too little.
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Rocky V.
Rental Property Investor · Arlington, TX · Member since 2012 · 788 posts · 640 votes
12y
If this is a pier and beam home I would consider installing a plastic liner in crawl space.
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