Turnover price quote from Vendor

Turnover price quote from Vendor

Real Estate Agent · San Jose, CA · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 1 vote

Moderators please remove if not allowed: 

Hey everyone, 

We have a recently vacant home in indi that needed a quick turnover for next renter. Our PM’s preferred vendor send us this quote. Looking at the prices , along with pictures of property , these seems steep even from SF Bay Area rates where we live. Would appreciate if you guys chime in with your 2cents. 
Thanks. 

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Travis TimmonsPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Ellsworth, ME · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
3y

Maybe the PM is not doing a great job, but ultimately, this is your property and staying on top of regular maintenance is your job. Nobody will ever care as much as the owner. I feel like you could save yourself thousands of dollars (this year and for years to come) by getting on a plane, meeting with some local vendors, establishing relationships, doing some of the work yourself, and learning that house inside and out. 

You have to know the property to manage the property manager correctly. Otherwise, you're easy money from California. They'll get you for an easy/extra $200-500 every chance they get. They know more about the place than you do. You're kind of forced to take their word for it or fly across the country to prove them wrong.

It's impossible to know what maintenance and upkeep actually need to be done without stepping into the property. We've all been fooled by cleaned up photos only to walk into a house that is a dump. You don't know what you have until you engage all 5 senses. 

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  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    3y

    @Rabeeya Khan

    the prices for the individual items aren't bad, so the question is just whether it needs all of that.  so hard for us in the forums to say when we don't know anything about it.  but based on those comments on the first page... it seems like it might be in pretty rough shape.

    so... have you ever been to it?  what was it like when you bought it?  do you have someone trusted who could go walk it and send you photos and videos?

  • Travis TimmonsPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Ellsworth, ME · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    Is it a standard turnover or deferred maintenance that has always needed to be done? For that price, I'd hop on a plane and do a lot of that myself. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    3y

    Individually the prices look fine. There is an item here and there that looks on the high side, but there are also items that look to be on the low side.

    When was the last time this unit was updated? From what "needs" repair, this looks like a place that was never maintained. 

    If it really does need this work and all the other recommended items, I'd get them all done while vacant. 

  • Real Estate Agent · San Jose, CA · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    3y
    Quote from @Nicholas L.:

    @Rabeeya Khan

    the prices for the individual items aren't bad, so the question is just whether it needs all of that.  so hard for us in the forums to say when we don't know anything about it.  but based on those comments on the first page... it seems like it might be in pretty rough shape.

    so... have you ever been to it?  what was it like when you bought it?  do you have someone trusted who could go walk it and send you photos and videos?

    Thanks Nicholas, 
    No we haven’t been to the property but it has been under the PM for past few years. It’s not a new acquire. We got the foundation inspection done separately and other than a leaked pipe there was nothing that was wrong. You are right One would expect reading through the report tgat the house is in bad condition but the pictures shows very different. It needs some work , but of course people were living in there until 3 weeks ago and it wasn’t an abondednd property. I don’t think all that is mentioned is needed but for example 2800 for yard cleanup. It seems excessive. 

  • Real Estate Agent · San Jose, CA · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    3y
    Quote from @Travis Timmons:

    Is it a standard turnover or deferred maintenance that has always needed to be done? For that price, I'd hop on a plane and do a lot of that myself. 

    Thanks Travis, 
    I really think PM companies should do a better job in having a preferred vendors. It is suppose to be renter turnover. The other quote that they gave us was 10k more. At these rate ROI doesn’t make sense in indi rental market. 
  • Real Estate Agent · San Jose, CA · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    3y
    Quote from @Greg M.:

    Individually the prices look fine. There is an item here and there that looks on the high side, but there are also items that look to be on the low side.

    When was the last time this unit was updated? From what "needs" repair, this looks like a place that was never maintained. 

    If it really does need this work and all the other recommended items, I'd get them all done while vacant. 

    Yup that’s the issue we are discussing with PM that if really this property needs all this for a turnover it means they failed at their job of regular maintenance. 
  • Travis TimmonsPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Ellsworth, ME · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    Maybe the PM is not doing a great job, but ultimately, this is your property and staying on top of regular maintenance is your job. Nobody will ever care as much as the owner. I feel like you could save yourself thousands of dollars (this year and for years to come) by getting on a plane, meeting with some local vendors, establishing relationships, doing some of the work yourself, and learning that house inside and out. 

    You have to know the property to manage the property manager correctly. Otherwise, you're easy money from California. They'll get you for an easy/extra $200-500 every chance they get. They know more about the place than you do. You're kind of forced to take their word for it or fly across the country to prove them wrong.

    It's impossible to know what maintenance and upkeep actually need to be done without stepping into the property. We've all been fooled by cleaned up photos only to walk into a house that is a dump. You don't know what you have until you engage all 5 senses. 

  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    3y

    @Rabeeya Khan

    just to push back a little bit... i'm not sure if the PM failed or not.  ultimately you are the owner, and you are responsible for keeping it up.  if your PM failed to notify you of issues on a timely basis, i guess that's on them.  but that just means you would have spent the same amount over the last 3 years, instead of all it once.

    landscaping is a challenge right now.  i did a bunch myself at some of my properties this past year because i couldn't find a cost effective solution.  obviously that's not an option for you but i have found that to be a particularly tough item.

  • Real Estate Agent · San Jose, CA · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    3y

    I guess that’s the cost for absentee landlord. Out of State rental investments always comes with additional challenges but this one particularly annoys me when PM acts like they are there just to collect rent check and get their share out of it. Bay Area is expensive to invest but managing my own rentals here is priceless. Thanks everyone again for your input!! 

  • Melanie ThomasBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · San Antonio · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 489 votes
    3y

    I realize each market is different however at first glance this seems unnecessarily high! Get another quote for comparison. Good luck & happy investing. 

    RentWerx Property Management4.73300 Reviews
  • Real Estate Agent · Denver CO · Member since 2019 · 209 posts · 332 votes
    3y

    Agree with Travis...best course of action is to hop on a plane.  They're charging you $20 to change an outlet cover and $50 each to change bathroom vents...

    If you're willing to pay $17K, what's another $1K for a plane ticket and hotel for a few nights (check with your CPA but this travel should be deductible if the primary reason is for business).  I think you can knock this down by 50% by doing some of this yourself.  At the very least just a handful of items DIY will cover your travel costs.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    3y

    I dont see anything thats out of line . Sure 20 bucks sounds high for an outlet cover , but part of that is the time to get it . 

    It adds up to be quite a bit of money , but as others have suggested , go do it yourself . In a good week it could be done by 2 people for less than half .  ( the yard work would be the only thing I would hire out due to hauling )

  • Contractor · IN · Member since 2023 · 28 posts · 26 votes
    3y

    @Rabeeya Khan feel free to pm me. We do a lot of work here in Indy with PM companies as a preferred vendor. For the most part it seems okay but there are a few items that definitely stick out to me as being steep. 

  • Real Estate Agent · San Jose, CA · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    3y
    Quote from @Account Closed:

    @Rabeeya Khan feel free to pm me. We do a lot of work here in Indy with PM companies as a preferred vendor. For the most part it seems okay but there are a few items that definitely stick out to me as being steep. 

    Thnx, 
    pm sent. 
  • Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    Aloha,

    Well, I see a number of issues here.

    Starting with the "Notes Recommendation".

    Not much useful info there, very poorly reported, hopefully the pics were of more use to understand the issues. Looks more like a handyperson wrote this up..."doesn't look good", "recommend a specialist", "need different vendor", "looks like it can last", "looks like outlet burned out" (yet, he only lists the $20 charge to change the outlet cover), "remove mirrors".

    Moving on to the charges, I don't have a clue of your local costs, but first of all, an unlicensed handyperson should not be on the roof; regardless, if he plans to charge you $550 to brush on a little roof cement around the penetrations, way over priced. What, exactly does he plan to do, where on the roof, and why (if not evident in photos)? It is more likely you are nearly due for a new roof due to lack of regular preventative maintenance.

    If the chimney sweep is actually a professional, that has the proper tools and knowledge, might be OK, but still seems high. One story or more?

    I would want to see the yard cleanup costs separate from the pruning/trimming. Costs will be very dependent on how high the work is and type of equipment needed. You can hire day labor and get a rolloff for the cleanup, let the tree guys do trees. And be sure THEY are pros; too many "yard guys" are just hacks that cause long term damage by improper cutting of desirable trees.

    Window well cover? How many, what size, not that difficult to install common basement well covers... typically 5 or 6 screws for what I am picturing, but I do not know what you actually need. Price the covers at HD and guesstimate from there.

    Page 2

    Installing sheet vinyl...cheapest possible choice, guaranteed more work for them in a few short years. You probably do, or will have, a mismatch of flooring from one room to the next. You do not indicate the quality of the unit, but from what I am seeing in the repair list, seems low end, to low average. I stopped using sheet vinyl in low end units over 20 years ago. Armstrong commercial vinyl tile works well once you source someone that cleans and waxes it properly. Luxury Vinyl Plank has come a long ways, and is pretty easy to install. Looks fantastic when you have one continuous flooring throughout, no matter if CVT or LVP. Both will last AND look far better for far longer than sheet vinyl. Be sure they pull the toilet to install any floorcovering, and do NOT caulk the toilet base to the flooring.

    Reglazing the tubs, while priced right, tells me this is an old property. Reglazing is fine, looks great, but again is a short term fix. If Tenants are not properly instructed in proper care; if they dump draino in/around the drain; or if the tech does not properly prepare the surface, they will last three years or less, and get ugly much sooner. The bigger issue however, is the age and condition of the drain and waste line, as well as the supply side lines. At this age, they are probably at or near the end of their life as well, and if either has slow seepage, it will be damaging your subfloor and structure until someone notices and reports an "unexpected" leak. Far better to rip it all out, replace with decent quality so you have a finished job that will look great for the next 20+ years.

    If the home was rented "with subfloor only" in the master bath, someone severely failed at their job. If the Tenant ruined/ripped out previous sheet vinyl, someone failed again, either with a poor quality installation (by you-know-who) or failing to inspect during occupancy and bounce a poor Tenant out.

    It sounds like someone (Tenant? Handyperson? Former Tenant?) did a poor job of installing shelving. What was there when you bought it? Based on that, who should be responsible for the cost of repair or removal?

    Repairing a "cracked door...needs a few nails"? What do the pics show? Is this a split edge from the door being kicked open damaging the latch area? Or simple de-lamination of the veneer? A bedroom door is pretty cheap to just replace unless you anticipate more poor quality Tenants.

    Page 3

    Cleaning and painting the stairs seems high, are they actually that dirty, or very old, and never painted?

    Foundation- water coming in? This should have been a priority, water is your worst enemy! You need to determine positively where the intrusion is; what is needed to stop it? ANYTHING you do inside the basement is NOT solving the problem. Especially if the current plan is to apply $225 worth of caulking. Gutters and downspouts, proper slope away from the foundation, redirecting water flows during heavy rains, digging out the foundation and re-waterproofing the exterior of it, these need to be explored as most likely fixes.

    $750 worth of drywall repairs PLUS $4800 to paint? How many BR/BA? Did you collect damages from outgoing Tenant? If not, why not? If it was that rough when they moved in, or if they damaged and did not pay, someone has failed you again. For that money, they better be properly priming, multiple coats of a great paint product, with proper sheen for the type of area being applied.

    Personally, I don't do Blinds, and especially in a lower end unit. Good quality curtain rods, properly and securely mounted, let Tenants provide their own curtains. Cheap curtain rods fall down too easily, and Tenants always remount them improperly, damaging trim and sheetrock. 

    Doorstops...the springy ones get damaged easy and you constantly replace them; friction stops are very hard on hollow core doors. Magnetic stops, properly, and securely mounted, these last a very long time without damaging the door, including the fact they prevent doors from blowing shut when room pressure changes suddenly.

    I would be very curious to know how 3 sets of hinges need to be changed. not something that typically "wears out". It may be the door jamb has been damaged from getting forced open repeatedly, and/or having partial, poor repairs done; or improper screws were used to mount the hinges at some point, easily pulling out or just not able to be secured adequately.

  • Real Estate Agent · San Jose, CA · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    3y

    Richard F thank you so much for this detailed analysis and response. I wish more PM think and work like you do. 

  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    Just got regular handyman to do the job for you. The painting part especially is way too expensive.

  • Member since 2023 · 1 post · 0 votes
    3y

    I live in Indy and also own a HVAC/Plumbing company. Most houses in the 46229 zip code are very old and in rough shape. As far as the plumbing pricing, its extremely fair costs. I have some decent property managers I can refer you too, along with a vast network of contractors in the area. 

  • Real Estate Agent · San Jose, CA · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 1 vote
    3y
    Quote from @Kenneth Hale:

    I live in Indy and also own a HVAC/Plumbing company. Most houses in the 46229 zip code are very old and in rough shape. As far as the plumbing pricing, its extremely fair costs. I have some decent property managers I can refer you toe along with a vast network of contractors in the area. 

    Thanks Kenneth. Please feel free to send some recs . We do need to check HVAC in that home as well. Let’s connect on msg. 
  • Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    You can hire your own handyman to knock out all this stuff paying his daily rate for 20-25% of the total costs. You will never make money paying those kind of rates on a rental. 

  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    3y

    @Henry Lazerow

    but isn't the point that this is a lot of deferred maintenance?  if she shops around, could she beat 17K?  sure... but again, these aren't "turnover" items like paint and patching, this is deferred maintenance.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    3y

    Sure you cal ALWAYS get it done cheaper .  What doesnt come to mind is that EVERYTHING has gotten more expensive , gas , food materials . AND THE BIGGEST IS LABOR . 

    The original poster wants a quick turn over .  Well its going to cost money . And there is a certain point you cant just put band aids on it . Its easier to work in a vacant property than one thats occupied . 

    I was just there , had a house we kept repairing , last move out I stood ther and sixed up the house and decided to take it down to the studs, new everything .   Did I want to spend the money ?   Hell no . BUT We spent 9 month over all on this project , using it as fill in work for us and some subs .  But the rent went from $1100 to $ 2000 a month . The house went from a C- to an A- . And I shouldnt have to do more than basic maintenance for years to come . Short term loss but long term gain 

  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Nicholas L.:

    @Henry Lazerow

    but isn't the point that this is a lot of deferred maintenance?  if she shops around, could she beat 17K?  sure... but again, these aren't "turnover" items like paint and patching, this is deferred maintenance.

    Deferred maintenance is fine but ...


    One big secret that I notice since I have five property management under me is that ....... with 5 PM I have 6 different very wide repair range cost.

    My cost efficiency is very controlled when I'm the only PM and the contractor is my own.

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    3y

    Definitely high. Individual items look a "little" high and then combine to make a big increase.

    The bigger issue is that something is seriously wrong with your PM. Why does the Master bathroom only have sub-flooring? Why is there trash in the yard? Why are you missing outlet covers and vent covers?

    This sounds to me like Tenants are neglecting/abusing your home and the PM is not holding them accountable. You've already said the PM just collects the rent, so that's clear evidence they are not doing their job. They are property managers, not rent collectors, and they should act like it or you should take your business elsewhere.

    Remember: cheaper doesn't mean you'll make more money.

    Start by going to www.narpm.org to search their directory of managers. These are professionals with additional training and a stricter code of ethics. It's no guarantee but it's a good place to start. You can also search Google and read reviews. Regardless of how you find them, try to interview at least three managers.

    1. Ask how many units they manage and how much experience they have. If it's a larger organization, feel free to inquire about their staff qualifications.

    2. Review their management agreement. Make sure it explicitly explains the process for termination if you are unhappy with their services, but especially if they violate the terms of your agreement.

    3. Understand the fees involved and calculate the total cost for an entire year of management so you can compare the different managers. It may sound nice to pay a 6% management fee but the extra fees can add up to be more than the other company that charges 10% with no additional fees. Fees should be clearly stated in writing, easy to understand, and justifiable. Common fees will include a set-up fee, leasing fee for each turnover or a lease renewal fee, marking up maintenance, retaining late fees, and more. If you ask the manager to justify a fee and he starts hemming and hawing, move on or require them to remove the fee. Don't be afraid to negotiate, particularly if you have a lot of rentals.

    4. Review their lease agreement and addenda. Think of all the things that could go wrong and see if the lease addresses them: unauthorized pets or tenants, early termination, security deposit, lease violations, late rent, eviction, lawn maintenance, parking, etc.

    5. Don't just read the lease! Ask the manager to explain their process for dealing with maintenance, late rent, evictions, turnover, etc. If they are professional, they can explain this quickly and easily. If they are VERY professional, they will have their processes in writing as verification that policies are enforced equally and fairly by their entire staff.

    6. Ask to speak with some of their current owners and current/former tenants. You can also check their reviews online at Google, Facebook, or Yelp. Just remember: most negative reviews are written by problematic tenants. The fact that a tenant is complaining online might be an indication the property manager dealt with them properly so be sure to ask the manager for their side of the story.

    7. Look at their marketing strategy. Are they doing everything they can to expose properties to the widest possible market? Are their listings detailed with good quality photos? Can they prove how long it takes to rent a vacant property?

    This isn't inclusive but should give you a good start. If you have specific questions about property management, I'll be happy to help!

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Michael SmytheBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    One of the biggest maintenance challenges for a PMC is determining what to do.

    We have owners that we challenge how nice they want to make their rentals and we have owners we challenge because they want to be slumlords.

    So, we simply list everything that could be done and then DISCUSS with the owner. We try to break issues into categories of: Health & Safety (must be done), Property Preservation (should be done), Marketability (will affect rent amount and vacancy period), and Miscellaneous.

    Logical Property Management4.9453 Reviews
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