Nail/Screw Holes in Walls

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Nail/Screw Holes in Walls

Member since 2023 · 50 posts · 26 votes

How do you folks handle nail/screw holes in walls. Filling them in not an issue but I'm seeing some renters are using anchors. Additionally, trying to spot paint even a white wall with white paint doesn't work, let alone other colors. I don't want to have to paint an entire wall (multiplied by the number of walls that have had nails in them) every time a tenant moves out. Thank you for your input.

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JD MartinBusiness Member

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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes

Quote from @Makan A Tabrizi:

Quote from @Bill B.:

I don’t know if it’s a new law but I was told by my PM at a recent move out it was now considered normal wear and tear and you couldn’t charge for it.

I assume any painter / handyman doing your turnover could do that kind of touch up in almost no time for almost no money.

Touch up is not issue. Trying to match the color that is already on the wall is just about impossible, even with left over paint from the initial painting. He tried to do patch work on this one wall with existing paint and it looked like a jigsaw puzzle :)

If you can't touch it up you're using the wrong kind of paint. Flat is easiest, eggshell next easiest as far as sheen. You don't need to use pure white - actually you can use any color, though lighter is easier - but you do need to use a paint brand and color that's not going to change. That generally means getting paint from someplace like Sherwin Williams and using one of their long-term colors. We use a color called Shoji White, which is kind of gray/beige white, has enough color that it can pop white trim but is light enough on the wall to match anything. Navajo White is another popular color. The bigger point is that if you use Walmart, Lowes or some other big box paint the base colors can and do change which will make touch-up difficult. Those stores go with whoever wins the cheapest contract. Case in point, years ago we used Olympic paints from Lowes, which were carried for a long time. Then Lowes phased out Olympic, and even with the paint code I couldn't get mixes that touched up. And if you're not already using the same paint color on all properties, you should start and you can thank me for this tip later. Using different colors was one of the biggest mistakes we ever made in the early days; tracking the colors even with a spreadsheet was a nightmare, as was keeping dozens of different touch up colors in the storehouse.

The other part of this: don't scuff or sand any more than you need to. Anything the size of a plastic wall anchor or smaller, you should be hitting it with lightweight spackle and use a damp sponge, not a sanding sponge, to take off the excess. That will prevent scuffing the paint making touch up necessary.

Finally: *DO NOT* let tenants attempt to fill holes or do touch up themselves. Many tenants are idiots and I'm surprised they can dress themselves in the morning. We have had tenants use everything from latex caulk to roofing cement to try to fill nail holes. One guy used white rubber cement, left in big blobs everywhere because he thought it just peeled off after he was done. We had to repaint the entire unit because the material he used left oil stains everywhere. In our move out sheet we specifically tell tenants not to fill holes or try to touch anything up.

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Bill B.
Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
1y
I don’t know if it’s a new law but I was told by my PM at a recent move out it was now considered normal wear and tear and you couldn’t charge for it.
I assume any painter / handyman doing your turnover could do that kind of touch up in almost no time for almost no money.
6 Reply
Makan A Tabrizi
OP
Member since 2023 · 50 posts · 26 votes
1y
Quote from @Bill B.:

I don’t know if it’s a new law but I was told by my PM at a recent move out it was now considered normal wear and tear and you couldn’t charge for it.
I assume any painter / handyman doing your turnover could do that kind of touch up in almost no time for almost no money.

Touch up is not issue. Trying to match the color that is already on the wall is just about impossible, even with left over paint from the initial painting. He tried to do patch work on this one wall with existing paint and it looked like a jigsaw puzzle :)
1 Reply
Kim Meredith HamptonBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · St Petersburg · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
1y
Unfortunately. this is typically considered normal wear and tear. Obviously, if there is a large hole in the wall or they painted a different color, then you can charge them to paint. Always be cautious of what you charge on things like paint, flooring etc.. most judges will use life expectancy and divide out a pro rated amount you could charge the tenant for excessive damage and not normal wear and tear
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Greg M.
Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes
1y
It's going to be location specific. Where I'm at, nail holes to hang objects are considered normal wear and tear. You need to find out the useful life of paint. If the law says it is one year, then the fact you have to repaint the entire wall is meaningless. You can't charge for that.
You could probably put in the lease that all items needing hanging must be done with the removable hook/tape type products. 3M has a bunch where you pull on the tape and it releases. This will work fine for normal sized pictures. It won't hold a heavy mirror.
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JD MartinBusiness Member
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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes
1y
Quote from @Makan A Tabrizi:

Quote from @Bill B.:

I don’t know if it’s a new law but I was told by my PM at a recent move out it was now considered normal wear and tear and you couldn’t charge for it.
I assume any painter / handyman doing your turnover could do that kind of touch up in almost no time for almost no money.

Touch up is not issue. Trying to match the color that is already on the wall is just about impossible, even with left over paint from the initial painting. He tried to do patch work on this one wall with existing paint and it looked like a jigsaw puzzle :)

If you can't touch it up you're using the wrong kind of paint. Flat is easiest, eggshell next easiest as far as sheen. You don't need to use pure white - actually you can use any color, though lighter is easier - but you do need to use a paint brand and color that's not going to change. That generally means getting paint from someplace like Sherwin Williams and using one of their long-term colors. We use a color called Shoji White, which is kind of gray/beige white, has enough color that it can pop white trim but is light enough on the wall to match anything. Navajo White is another popular color. The bigger point is that if you use Walmart, Lowes or some other big box paint the base colors can and do change which will make touch-up difficult. Those stores go with whoever wins the cheapest contract. Case in point, years ago we used Olympic paints from Lowes, which were carried for a long time. Then Lowes phased out Olympic, and even with the paint code I couldn't get mixes that touched up. And if you're not already using the same paint color on all properties, you should start and you can thank me for this tip later. Using different colors was one of the biggest mistakes we ever made in the early days; tracking the colors even with a spreadsheet was a nightmare, as was keeping dozens of different touch up colors in the storehouse.

The other part of this: don't scuff or sand any more than you need to. Anything the size of a plastic wall anchor or smaller, you should be hitting it with lightweight spackle and use a damp sponge, not a sanding sponge, to take off the excess. That will prevent scuffing the paint making touch up necessary.

Finally: *DO NOT* let tenants attempt to fill holes or do touch up themselves. Many tenants are idiots and I'm surprised they can dress themselves in the morning. We have had tenants use everything from latex caulk to roofing cement to try to fill nail holes. One guy used white rubber cement, left in big blobs everywhere because he thought it just peeled off after he was done. We had to repaint the entire unit because the material he used left oil stains everywhere. In our move out sheet we specifically tell tenants not to fill holes or try to touch anything up.
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Dennis McNeelyPro Member
Investor · Gibraltar, MI · Member since 2017 · 108 posts · 103 votes
1y
Take a look at Nix, a paint color sensor. It's a little device you pair with your cell phone.

You then put it on the wall to sense the paint color, and it sends the color to your phone - adjacent to the manufacturer's color that most closely matches the wall color. If the manufacturer doesn't have a color that's close enough, you can change to another manufacturer and try to match against their stock colors.

Good luck with it!
4 Reply
John Teachout
Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
1y
Usually on a turnover we wind up repainting. It's just one reason why turnovers are expensive. We're doing a property now that the tenants were in about 5 years. All together there's probably 200 nail and tack holes in the walls. This is the livingroom wall. It had dozens of little dents in it like someone was throwing/shooting something at the wall.

4 Reply
Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
1y
Like @JD Martinsaid, find a very generic paint that also looks nice. I find that the good brands hold color quite a while, I prefer BEHR marquee from Home Depot, a true one coat paint (for most colors).

3 Reply
Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
1y
Tell them they aren't allowed to hang large pictures that require wall anchors or they will have to pay to have it repaired when they move out. If there are a lot of holes, best to paint the entire wall. If it is a small spot, use a tiny paint brush (like you'd use to paint a picture) and just touch up the spot with the plaster.
1 Reply
Alecia LovelessPro Member
Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
1y
@Makan A Tabrizi We repaint upon turnover. Generally I get 3-5 year minimum stays.
Often we have to do 40-60% of a skim coat to the walls upon move out.
It’s just part of the process. That’s why it’s in your best interest to try to figure out how to maximize longevity in your tenants.
3 Reply
Henry T.
Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
1y
I always put a couple nail holes and anchor bolts in their car fender before they drive away. Nahhh, just kidding! It's to be expected within reason. Fill with joint compound and use your old paint for touch up. I used to put in a couple picture nails before the move in, and or provide a box of picture hanging nails. Even more important if its old lath/plaster. If you dont their lazy assk will use the first railroad spike they see. Be pro active. With renters its about idiot proofing.
3 Reply
Scott P.
Rental Property Investor · Indiana...mostly · Member since 2019 · 468 posts · 245 votes
1y
It's pretty much already been said...normal wear and tear for small picture hanging holes...cost to repaint entire unit needs to be accounted for in the total rent from a 1 year lease.
2 Reply
Dan H.Pro Member
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
1y
Our lease spells out what is reasonable number of holes per wall. It is a number that virtually anyone would find to be reasonable (I believe it is 6 small holes per wall). This is because it is fast to patch, but the fast can add up. Also toggle bolt size holes can require texture which adds additional time. spelling out expectations is never a bad thing.
So far it has never been an issue. the one time that a tenant clearly went over the expectation they had occupied the unit 13 years and full paint job was expected (normal wear and tear).
I also have not found it difficult to match paint. I question if the person that has issues matching 1) knows how to feather 2) has the original paint color/code. I suspect I can feather good enough for paint that is to near end of life. I have even had paint over 10 years that was in decent shape that I was able to match and feather.
Good luck
3 Reply
Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
1y
Quote from @Bill B.:

I was told by my PM at a recent move out it was now considered normal wear and tear and you couldn’t charge for it.
Normal wear and tear would be a few small nail holes for hanging artwork, a clock, etc. Mounting shelves, a TV, or other large items that requires screws, bolts, or anchors should be regulated by the landlord and charged to the tenant. The same goes for an excessive number of small holes, like a single wall with 40 nail holes. I've had many renters with kids that stapled posters to walls and left hundreds of tiny holes. Tenants should pay for that.
My lease considered normal to be a few items hung using 1" nails or smaller. We forbid TV mounts, shelves, or items that require bolts, anchors, screws, or large nails. We also do not allow the tenant to patch holes or touch up the paint, because they usually do a terrible job that takes longer and costs more to fix.

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Kevin Sobilo
Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
1y
@Makan A Tabrizi, if you can't touch up using leftover paint and have it match well then you either have a problem with the paint OR the paint on the walls is old enough to have faded significantly.
Perhaps try a better quality paint to start with and lessen this issue.
Think of it this way, at some point, a minimal amount of wear & tear to the unit requires paint to be touched-up. You have one abrasion on a wall. You're telling us that this cannot be touched up because the existing paint won't match. So, there is no difference in cost to you whether its a small amount of wear and tear or something a bit more substantial. Either way, you feel you need to repaint the walls. So, no extra cost to you for doing that in essence.
I typically only charge for real damage to walls. A hole large enough to require a patch, a section where a pet severely scratched up the wall, etc. Something that requires more effort than spackling small holes. In this way, I never need to be concerned about justifying my charge to their deposit because the damage is clear and obvious.
1 Reply
Marcus Auerbach
Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
1y
We try to get ahead of the issue by preventing it in the first place.
We do a tenant orientation at the property when they sign the lease and go over the specifics, one of them is no modifications, no painting walls and ... nail holes.
We actually provide them with 2 packs of command strips and show them how to use them. We also tell them that we charge $25 per hole for TV mounts, shelves etc
I think that $10 up-front investment has reduced the number of issues by probably 80%.
Our walls are textured (sand textured in Milwaukee, orange peel textured in the western suburbs - yes, there is an actual dividing line), so we try to avoid the usual palm-sized patch and fill only the hole without making it bigger, so we can get away without texturing. And yes, you have to paint at least the whole wall, if not the whole room.
Like Dan, we have a standardized paint (white clay by Behr in eggshell, but SW will mix it NP)
2 Reply
Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
1y
I've noticed lately that when selling and moving, the Realtor and contract require/request that you leave TV mounts where they are. Too much patching required with those 1/4" lag screws, and besides, a TV goes where it goes I guess..so if a tenant wants to wall-hang a TV you could just ask them to leave the mount.
3 Reply
Andrew B.
Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
1y
Hanging a reasonable number of items on the wall is reasonable wear and tear. If there is an unreasonable number of holes, you repaint the whole wall because the patches wont look right. You can bill them for painting the whole wall if there was an unreasonable number of holes, but painting one wall is typically cheap enough that you can let it go for good tenants.
2 Reply
Kevin S.
Member since 2024 · 400 posts · 240 votes
1y
@Dennis McNeely
Have you used 'Nix' yourself? How will interior light affect the result (cool white, daylight etc)?
1 Reply
Dennis McNeelyPro Member
Investor · Gibraltar, MI · Member since 2017 · 108 posts · 103 votes
1y

I own one and use it from time to time, @Kevin S.
The base of the Nix sits flush against the painted surface, and it has it's own internal light source. It doesn't care if it's day or night, or whether you have low voltage task lighting or office lights.
It's worked well for me.

2 Reply
Gregory Chadwell
Real Estate Broker · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2015 · 299 posts · 90 votes
1y
I use white flat paint for all of my units. When they move out and i paint over the spackle repairs it is usually undetectable. Anchor I leave in the wall and paint over them. Tough issue but it's unreasonable require tenants not hang things on the wall. On MTM tenants i tell them not to hang pictures or make holes in the walls, however.
1 Reply
Chris B.
Chandler, AZ · Member since 2020 · 295 posts · 272 votes
1y
I find greater than 80% of tenants leave holes in the walls. Most holes are usually pin sized, but nails and bolt holes and anchors do happen also. Also, most situations are of just a few pin or small nail holes here and there. I deal with this without charging the tenant if its not excessive. Sometimes as Nathan had pointed out, it is excessive. I have text in my lease stating that the tenant is not allowed to make repairs to holes in walls and that any repair work that takes over 30 minutes or is larger than the size of small nail will be repaired by the landlord's hired labor at a cost of $30 per hour plus material costs. I rarely exercise this clause unless it really is bad. I've had a past tenant poke hundreds of pin holes in ceilings, more in the walls, and put anchors and bolts in several different rooms. This tenant was billed accordingly.
My rentals have Sherwin Williams SuperPaint in Accessible Beige / satin for the walls. I can reorder this paint at a later date and the color is always a good match. Sometimes the texture of the patch will show though.
2 Reply
Makan A Tabrizi
OP
Member since 2023 · 50 posts · 26 votes
1y
I ended up basically painting the entire apartment as every single wall hand several nail holes. I tried spot painting but I just couldn't match the paint. I can see this becoming a major problem in the future so I wanted to have a plan of action. I used to do medium term rentals and those guys hardly put up anything so this was a new experience for me. I appreciate your employee. I will definitely add something to the lease about nail holes. Thank you.
0 Reply
Makan A Tabrizi
OP
Member since 2023 · 50 posts · 26 votes
1y
Quote from @Gregory Chadwell:

I use white flat paint for all of my units. When they move out and i paint over the spackle repairs it is usually undetectable. Anchor I leave in the wall and paint over them. Tough issue but it's unreasonable require tenants not hang things on the wall. On MTM tenants i tell them not to hang pictures or make holes in the walls, however.
Do you find flat paint to be easier to wipe down? I'm paintimg all my doors, cabinets, and baseboards semi-gloss, specifically so I can wipe them down easier. I'm not too sure about the actual walls though.
0 Reply
Makan A Tabrizi
OP
Member since 2023 · 50 posts · 26 votes
1y
Quote from @Kevin S.:

@Dennis McNeely
Have you used 'Nix' yourself? How will interior light affect the result (cool white, daylight etc)?
I haven't. I will look into this. Thank you.
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