guns in rental unit

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guns in rental unit

Sarah Jones
los angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 223 posts · 4 votes

I'm in los angeles california and i found out today one of my military tenant has 2 guns with him.... this is very scary for me... i still have 2 rooms to rent.. for the new people coming in can i put a clause in there for no guns? 

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Josiah Charland
Investor · Redding, CA · Member since 2014 · 8 posts · 8 votes
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A tenant with guns really shouldn't be an issue. The quality of the person is where you should be making your judgements. The the guy is military so obviously the government has trained him on how to use them. Guns aren't bad just the person behind them if they are used improperly.

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  • Alexander FelicePro Member
    Guy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
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    Pretty sure gun owners aren't a protected class so you should be able to ban them if you want. 

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  • Curtis BidwellPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Olympia, WA · Member since 2014 · 777 posts · 744 votes
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    As long as they are legal, and properly stored if minors are in the unit, what's your concern? I've seen many guns in units and carry myself.  I run background checks on my tenants and don't allow felons, so I don't have a concern if they own a legal firearm. If they are not legal in your jurisdiction they are already in violation (and obviously don't care), so another statement in your contract won't make much difference other than to perhaps give you some liability cover.

    However, we did have a unit years ago where a tenant moved in a 'friend', 'cousin', 'pick your relationship of the week' who had automatic weapons, drugs and hookers.  We informed the police of what we knew and they eventually busted everyone in the unit and cleaned it out for us! 

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  • Josiah Charland
    Investor · Redding, CA · Member since 2014 · 8 posts · 8 votes
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    A tenant with guns really shouldn't be an issue. The quality of the person is where you should be making your judgements. The the guy is military so obviously the government has trained him on how to use them. Guns aren't bad just the person behind them if they are used improperly.

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  • Jeff G.
    Investor · West Bend, WI · Member since 2014 · 214 posts · 149 votes
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    I would see this as a positive thing as long as he is not a felon.

    3Reply
  • Michael S.
    New to Real Estate · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2014 · 12 posts · 6 votes
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    If you were renting to a police officer would you be concerned that he had his service pistol with him while at home?  I agree with @Curtis Bidwell, and others that have replied to your other topic post of the same title, it's not the gun but the person behind it that is the issue.  As long as the weapon is legal and is being stored legally there shouldn't be a problem.

    4Reply
  • P. Martin
    Residential Real Estate Agent · San antonio, TX · Member since 2013 · 130 posts · 44 votes
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    How did you find out? Why is it scary for you? 

    And I'm not a lawyer and don't live in CA but:

    http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/25605.html

    http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/26035.html

    "FIrearmS In tHe Home, buSIneSS or at tHe CamPSIte Unless otherwise unlawful, any person over the age of 18 who is not prohibited from possessing firearms may have a loaded or unloaded firearm at his or her place of residence, temporary residence, campsite or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the person . Any person engaged in lawful business (including nonprofit organizations) or any officer, employee or agent authorized for lawful purposes connected with the business may have a loaded firearm within the place of business if that person is over 18 years of age and not otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms . (Pen . Code, §§ 25605, 26035 .) NOTE: If a person’s place of business, residence, temporary residence, campsite or private property is located within an area where possession of a firearm is prohibited by local or federal laws, such laws would prevail ."

    http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firea...

    I'd talk to a lawyer if it's really that concerning for you. 

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  • Wayne Brooks
    Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
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    Sounds like a personal issue with the OP.  Looks like he's renting out individual bedrooms in his house, while still living there.

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  • Mark B.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Morgan Hill, CA · Member since 2012 · 212 posts · 64 votes
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    Some states specifically prohibit landlords from prohibiting firearms in their residence. Also, you may want to consider the advice of an attorney. Specifically you want to know if waiving a person's constitutional right is enforceable. As an example, in CA you can not prohibit a tenant from posting election signs near an election because it limited the right to free speech. An additional consideration is added liability to you. Since you are now substantially limiting someones ability to defend themselves, what are you doing to substantially mitigate the opportunity for crime to occur at your property?

    4Reply
  • Mark Mynhier
    Investor · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2014 · 85 posts · 54 votes
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    I'm pretty sure that gun ownership is a constitutional right, so banning them may be a problem. This may be especially problematic if it was not in the original contract and now you are trying to do something to add exclusions to the contract. THIS is a question for an attorney.

    Mark

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  • Jeff CopelandBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Tampa Bay/St Petersburg, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
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    @Alexander Felice - While not a "protected class" per se, people do have a right to keep and bear arms under the 2nd amendment, particularly in their domicile, and I would caution against infringing on a tenant's constitutional rights.

    @Sarah Jones - State and local laws on top of federal and constitutional issues make for a tangled web of gun laws, and I would consult an attorney before trying to ban ownership of guns in a rental agreement. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it might prove difficult to enforce. 

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  • Daniel Mohnkern
    Investor · Titusville, PA · Member since 2015 · 298 posts · 150 votes
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    No, I'm almost certain you cannot because it is a fundamental right recognised by the constitution.  If you think you could get away with discriminating against those who don't agree with you on politics, or based on free speech, or you think you could get away with searching through their personal belongings without a warrant, etc, then go ahead and try it.  But you should be willing to have a great court battle by doing so. Just keep in mind that guns never hurt anybody; people do. A better question would be, would you feel unsafe with a police officer in your unit? If you would answer no, then you understand internally that your real question is whether or not the person in your unit is trustworthy.

    1Reply
  • Daniel Mohnkern
    Investor · Titusville, PA · Member since 2015 · 298 posts · 150 votes
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    @Mark B.

    1Reply
  • Chris Bounds
    Investor · Sugar Land, TX · Member since 2012 · 554 posts · 232 votes
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    I'm curious how you find that out?  Was it just laying around when you did a walk-through or did they tell you?

    In Texas it's safe to assume that there is a gun in almost every home.  As long as they are legally able to own one I have no issues with it.  I'm not renting to felons.  I especially wouldn't mind it if the tenant was military, LEO, or other first-responder.

    4Reply
  • P. Martin
    Residential Real Estate Agent · San antonio, TX · Member since 2013 · 130 posts · 44 votes
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    Why is this posted twice?

    How did you find out? Why is it scary for you?

    And I'm not a lawyer and don't live in CA but:

    http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/25605.html

    http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/26035.html

    "FIrearmS In tHe Home, buSIneSS or at tHe CamPSIte Unless otherwise unlawful, any person over the age of 18 who is not prohibited from possessing firearms may have a loaded or unloaded firearm at his or her place of residence, temporary residence, campsite or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the person . Any person engaged in lawful business (including nonprofit organizations) or any officer, employee or agent authorized for lawful purposes connected with the business may have a loaded firearm within the place of business if that person is over 18 years of age and not otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms . (Pen . Code, §§ 25605, 26035 .) NOTE: If a person’s place of business, residence, temporary residence, campsite or private property is located within an area where possession of a firearm is prohibited by local or federal laws, such laws would prevail ."

    http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firea...

    I'd talk to a lawyer if it's really that concerning for you. 

    0Reply
  • Alexander FelicePro Member
    Guy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
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    Originally posted by :

    - While not a "protected class" per se, people do have a right to keep and bear arms under the 2nd amendment, particularly in their domicile, and I would caution against infringing on a tenant's constitutional rights.

    yeah they have a federal right to bear arms, but that doesn't stop business from disallowing people to bring firearms into their establishments.

    Best for OP to check with local laws because every here (including myself) seems to be guessing LOL 

    2nd amendment may not allow you to ban guns like others have said, or it may not. If I were OP I wouldn't want to guess, I would want to KNOW. 

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  • Bob H.
    Rental Property Investor · Cedar Park, TX · Member since 2014 · 414 posts · 272 votes
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    At a minimum you can add to your rental application the questions: "Do you own or possess guns? If so, how many." Then consider the answers and other information when deciding whether to rent to the applicant.

    I would not put much stock in legal advice from non-lawyers here.

    2Reply
  • Karyn T.
    Investor · Bellingham, WA · Member since 2013 · 210 posts · 138 votes
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    I'd rather have a military member WITH guns in my rentals than thugs, without guns, ANY day!
    3Reply
  • Carson Sweezy
    Rental Property Investor · Fairfax, VA · Member since 2014 · 328 posts · 101 votes
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    Sarah wasn't asking for yalls opinion on gun control, she was asking a simple question regarding legality. 

    When I was in college in PA our landlord had a "no gun clause", but more than one of my roommates did not abide by this. I don't know what California's laws are, but I would think you are safe to do as you please, its no different than not allowing smokers. 

    The truth is, it would be really hard to tell if your tenant is keeping a gun, unless you monitor them like a hawk, or go through their things. 

    1Reply
  • Carson Sweezy
    Rental Property Investor · Fairfax, VA · Member since 2014 · 328 posts · 101 votes
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    You need to ask a lawyer though. 

    0Reply
  • Sarah Jones
    OP
    los angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 223 posts · 4 votes
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    carson said it correctly... can i legally put it in my lease.. 

    0Reply
  • Jeff G.
    Investor · West Bend, WI · Member since 2014 · 214 posts · 149 votes
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    I am almost 100% certain you cannot restrict a persons constitutional right in a lease agreement.  

    0Reply
  • Richard C.
    Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
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    Talk to a California lawyer.

    My speculation as to what he/she will say:  You can put it in the lease, but enforcing it would be a crapshoot, at best.

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  • Richard C.
    Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
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    Originally posted by @Jeff G.:

    I am almost 100% certain you cannot restrict a persons constitutional right in a lease agreement.  

     It really isn't clear, actually. Public housing landlords, since Heller, almost certainly cannot.  Which is why when the San Francisco Housing Authority was sued over its ban on firearms, they fell all over themselves to settle out of court.

    How things stand with private landlords is not nearly so clear.  And state law will control more often than not.

    0Reply
  • Tony Gunter
    Investor · Canton, GA · Member since 2014 · 727 posts · 500 votes
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    I think this would be a great way to get sued, especially if you ever tried to do this say, to an NRA member. You should not even ask this question. Unless the individual is a convicted felon, they have a constitutional right to bear arms. In the case of a felon you will reject that individual anyway. Gun owners and ownership is a protected class, read the constitution, second amendment.

    You should get out a Cali more often. There is nothing to be afraid of. In the rest of the country legal gun ownership is VERY common among LAW ABIDING adults. I think they will even issue one to you in Texas if you don't have one and relocate here. :-) 

    I was covered on that count though when I moved to Texas, but I am from the south. I was shooting responsible by the age of 4 years old with my father, and yes, I am personally quite passionate about my 2nd amendment rights. Would have never guessed that , right?

    0Reply
  • Bob H.
    Rental Property Investor · Cedar Park, TX · Member since 2014 · 414 posts · 272 votes
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    Short of banning guns, you could require that they be kept in a safe, which you would need to see. You also could require that the tenant show evidence of some kind of gun-safety training. These requirements might not deter a criminal or even an irresponsible person from having a gun, but it could give you additional leverage to terminate a lease or limit your liability if a problem occurred and you could show that the tenant was violating the lease.

    1Reply
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