Tenant's friend almost attacked me (move out inspection)

Tenant's friend almost attacked me (move out inspection)

Real Estate Agent · Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2014 · 529 posts · 217 votes

So last night my tenant and I went through our property move out inspection walk through.  I had bought this property about 6 months ago at auction and inherited this tenant.  Needless to say, the place is destroyed.  Chipped paint, holes in the wall, floors are destroyed, all the bedrooms are painted ridiculous colors and the kitchen needs to be completely remodeled.  I knew about these issues when I purchased the property.  I spoke with my attorney and a friend; they both said because I don't have a move in inspection sheet or proof of what the property looked like, I should give the security deposit back.  That's fine, in the grand scheme of things 600$ doesn't really matter when the remodel job is about 15k. 

Anyways, we walked through and I said the place looks fine except you changed the locks.  There are no other issues I see with the property.  The tenant was very upset and said the previous landlord knew about the changing of the locks.  I had told her I didn't receive a key, and the seller never told me.  The tenant called the previous landlord so prove her case.  Well the previous landlord said, "I didn't know you changed the locks, why did you guys do that?"  Blah blah blah, the tenant made an excuse and said they shouldn't get charge etc....  When we were leaving the property, all of a sudden a large pick up truck comes flying in.  Almost hit my car! A gentlemen (I think he may have been a friend or a relative) got out of the vechile and started screaming saying "where is that f***** a*****."  Luckily, I was already in my car.  At this point I was turning around and already in the middle of the street.  He jumped in front of my car, pounded on the hood.  Then tried to open my door.  I took off and that was it.  Needless to say, I have learned many things from this mistake.  My question is how should I have handled this situation?  Should I have called the cops?  I was worried the tenants were going to smash the house after I left, but it does seem like the simply left after my departure.  Is there anything I should do now?

Thanks and sorry for the long post.

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Financial Advisor · Elmira, NY · Member since 2015 · 132 posts · 67 votes
10y

Stripped of the drama, the tenant changed locks without telling anyone - that does happen.  It's not right, but it's not a bridge I want to die on, either.  I tend to avoid confrontation anyway, but on the tenant's turf with threatening friends and no long-term track record with the tenant, I would have taken a more "oh, new locks? seems wise in this neighborhood.  well, when you turn in your keys, you'll get your deposit back" approach - no need to "call them" on changing the locks.  Usually "after I do a walkthrough" would be part of that speech, but not in this case.

At least in our area, getting the keys back is very helpful from a legal standpoint (clearly shows tenant has given up possession).  I wouldn't have called the seller at all in this case.  If it was an issue I wanted to check with the seller on, an issue that was a potential conflict with a tenant, I would do it after getting back to my desk.  If the issue is something the tenant thinks the seller might be helpful on, I might make the call in front of the tenant.

We've had tenants change locks and then disappear.  Depending on neighborhood, we call a locksmith or just force entry ourselves and change the locks.

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  • Attorney · Attleboro, MA · Member since 2015 · 412 posts · 165 votes
    10y

    Glad you were not physically hurt.

    I think you acted appropriately. Maybe you could have called the cops when was happening but who needs the drama and if it ticked off the tenant and she really trashes the place, who needs that.

    When is the tenant leaving, at the end of November? As soon as she is gone, get into the apartment even if you have to drill the locks and change them. As long as the place is in the same condition as when you walked through, send her her money back and rehab what needs to be done. Put this behind you and go forward.

    Just my thoughts.

  • Real Estate Agent · Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2014 · 529 posts · 217 votes
    10y

    @Douglas Snook She turned over the keys last night.  I'm going this afternoon to change the locks and start the rehab.  I thought about calling the cops, but I don't think they would have really done anything. 

  • Investor · Edwardsville, IL · Member since 2015 · 432 posts · 481 votes
    10y
    I would tell the cops about the problem and have them there when you go in today. I recently got my conceal n carry -too many idiots out there! I'd have them fill out a report if there are any dents on th hood. "Cops are only minutes away when seconds count".
  • Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    you should file a police report immediately 

  • Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    File a police report and get your CCW. If you are opposed to the CCW I would look at carrying pepper spray. 

  • lincoln, NE · Member since 2015 · 13 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    Christian, the damage has been done and nothing happened beyond the already damaged apartment. Just move onward  and upward. No police should be involved,  they have real criminals to go hunting for unless there was damage done to your vehicle. Just move forward realizing this is all part of rental property ownership. 

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    First, why do the locks matter, if you get a key.  I'm guessing you didn't get any keys from the auction.  And just me, but I'd have parked my car, got out, and said "here I fu$$ing am, what's the problem"?

  • Real Estate Agent · Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2014 · 529 posts · 217 votes
    10y

    @Ryan Dossey It was an estate auction, so I did receive all the keys to the property.  Even though I did get the keys from the tenant, I do not trust her.  I did not know she changed the locks, either did the previous landlord.  There was suspicion of drugs and we have had several disagreements.  It wouldn't surprise me if they had a key and were planning on breaking in to steal tools/appliances during my remodel.  The locks must be changed.  Also, as much as I would like to take your advice.  When your out numbered 6 to 1, its dark and in a rural place, I would prefer to settle matters peacefully.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    Estate auction......that makes more sense.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Christian Bors  you did the wise thing there was an Aussie investor who bought a few units in Detroit... he decides he will spend his 6 week vacation fixing the units himself it was a duplex.... ( Aussie get 4 to 6 weeks)  well fly's to Detroit.. 

    Argument ensues with one tenant.  Tenant calls uncle.. uncle shows up argument escalates Uncle shot him in the chest and killed him.. 

    Hopefully you bought a property that will attract better tenant than you just got rid of 

    I saw on line yesterday a neat device it has a strong pulsing light followed by military grade pepper spray.. and ergonomically built so joggers can hold it while they jog. If your going to landlord in a lower end area with the threat of violence at anytime you may want to arm yourself.

    My PM's that I work with in pretty much every city,, if they work C and D they are packing for sure. especially if they walk in a vacant home

  • Financial Advisor · Elmira, NY · Member since 2015 · 132 posts · 67 votes
    10y

    Stripped of the drama, the tenant changed locks without telling anyone - that does happen.  It's not right, but it's not a bridge I want to die on, either.  I tend to avoid confrontation anyway, but on the tenant's turf with threatening friends and no long-term track record with the tenant, I would have taken a more "oh, new locks? seems wise in this neighborhood.  well, when you turn in your keys, you'll get your deposit back" approach - no need to "call them" on changing the locks.  Usually "after I do a walkthrough" would be part of that speech, but not in this case.

    At least in our area, getting the keys back is very helpful from a legal standpoint (clearly shows tenant has given up possession).  I wouldn't have called the seller at all in this case.  If it was an issue I wanted to check with the seller on, an issue that was a potential conflict with a tenant, I would do it after getting back to my desk.  If the issue is something the tenant thinks the seller might be helpful on, I might make the call in front of the tenant.

    We've had tenants change locks and then disappear.  Depending on neighborhood, we call a locksmith or just force entry ourselves and change the locks.

  • Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Honestly unless the state requires it. I do not do final walk through with tenant. I just ask for  keys and than I am done. It prevents these and other issues.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Elizabeth Colegrove  I agree.... how many homes have you had trashed by tenants in their everyday living environment... crazy paint  ruined floors in a years time etc ?

  • Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Elizabeth Colegrove  I agree.... how many homes have you had trashed by tenants in their everyday living environment... crazy paint  ruined floors in a years time etc ?

     I haven't had many. I still do a walk through just after they left with the doors close. My states don't require a final walk through. California requires a pre walkthrough if the tenants request it. Otherwise I go through after they leave mark up the security despot and send it back. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Elizabeth Colegrove  would you correlate your success with tenants to the asset class .

  • Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Elizabeth Colegrove  would you correlate your success with tenants to the asset class .

     Absolutely! One of our biggest keys to success is that our tenants have a lot to lose. While they will fight, complain, try to talk their way out and make you hold their feet to the fire. Once they figure out that I am serious and I will go after them to the fullest extent of the law. They play ball. 

    While I operate on smaller margins, I find that my demographic has smaller expenses. I will have hundreds for turn overs but not thousands. I can also have higher expectations regarding their participation in the units. My tenants change filters, batteries, are responsible for the first $100 of repairs. 

    I have found that spending an hour with them going over the 16 plus page lease has gone a long with with setting up expectations and preventing issues.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Elizabeth Colegrove  this is one item that is glossed over in the rental business

    it would be great to take a 10 year sampling of different class of rentals and see at the end of those ten years REALLY which is best.

    IE give up some cash flow now.. but know that your make readys are going to save a bunch over time.  And that your property might actually be worth more than you paid for it and the exit to a homeowner ( were the real profit is made) might actually be viable).

    I would think on the smaller investor who has 2 to 4 SFR's the better quality homes in the begining will proform better.

    the investor who does this for a living and needs 50 to 500 units maybe the cash flow is what its all about as they know they will never sell for basically more than they paid.. and in many cases probably less than what they paid

  • Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Elizabeth Colegrove  this is one item that is glossed over in the rental business

    it would be great to take a 10 year sampling of different class of rentals and see at the end of those ten years REALLY which is best.

    IE give up some cash flow now.. but know that your make readys are going to save a bunch over time.  And that your property might actually be worth more than you paid for it and the exit to a homeowner ( were the real profit is made) might actually be viable).

    I would think on the smaller investor who has 2 to 4 SFR's the better quality homes in the begining will proform better.

    the investor who does this for a living and needs 50 to 500 units maybe the cash flow is what its all about as they know they will never sell for basically more than they paid.. and in many cases probably less than what they paid

    I totally agree! We got started in this demographic because primaries were what we could afford/finance. Over time it has simply become our demographic and what I am comfortable in. I have looked for cash flow only areas but as you mentioned to scale those up requires large amounts of capital. 

  • Visalia-Fresno, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 863 votes
    10y

    I always have my guard up no matter if it is A-D property.  People in A properties drink wine and take prescription drugs, people in D property smoke crack.  I have had problems with both.  Get a CCW and carry a pistol on your ankle.

    Frank

  • Real Estate Agent · Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2014 · 529 posts · 217 votes
    10y

    @Jay Hinrichs for the record, this property is most likely a C area.  The property itself is a duplex.  The other tenant I screen and placed on the other side has been great so far.  And honestly, the tenant that was moving sucked however she could have been a lot worse (she did pay rent).  I think after this property is properly rennovated, I shouldn't have a problem finding a decent tenant.  

    @Harriet Baldwin When I told the tenant my only concern was the locks being changed, she demanded we call the previous landlord.  She eventually took out her cell and called the landlord herself. Just to clarify, are you saying after you complete the walkthrough by yourself, you would give her a call/send a letter about the locks?

    @Elizabeth Colegrove I definitely learned from this mistake.  I like your approach much better.  Just making sure, I can deduct the cost of changing the locks from the security deposit correct?  Even though she doesn't deserve anything back, I know I cannot prove anything besides the locks.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    @Christian Bors I must be missing something with the concern over the changed locks at this point....the tenant has keys to whatever locks are there, original or changed, and I'd think you'd be changing them anyway.

  • Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Christian Bors:

    @Jay Hinrichs for the record, this property is most likely a C area.  The property itself is a duplex.  The other tenant I screen and placed on the other side has been great so far.  And honestly, the tenant that was moving sucked however she could have been a lot worse (she did pay rent).  I think after this property is properly rennovated, I shouldn't have a problem finding a decent tenant.  

    @Harriet Baldwin When I told the tenant my only concern was the locks being changed, she demanded we call the previous landlord.  She eventually took out her cell and called the landlord herself. Just to clarify, are you saying after you complete the walkthrough by yourself, you would give her a call/send a letter about the locks?

    @Elizabeth Colegrove I definitely learned from this mistake.  I like your approach much better.  Just making sure, I can deduct the cost of changing the locks from the security deposit correct?  Even though she doesn't deserve anything back, I know I cannot prove anything besides the locks.

     Not a lawyer but my understanding is my state allows me to simply charge them if allowed. I don't have to tell them till I send them the paperwork. So that's what I do. Keeps it less messy.

  • Real Estate Agent · Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2014 · 529 posts · 217 votes
    10y

    @Wayne Brooks That is correct, she did give me the keys to the new locks however she was not allowed to change the locks.  This past Wednesday, I told her my contractor and I will be walking through to take measurements of the place (She already moved out)  I told her I have a key and its up to her if she wants to be there.  Anyways, she clearly knew I didn't have the correct key and said "sure, I won't be there but you guys can go inside." Then when we walked through she told me "yeah, I knew you didn't have a key but I didn't want you to go inside when I wasn't there"  Needless to say, I'm thinking why the hell did you say I could go inside then!  Anyways, I don't trust her at all.  So despite getting the keys to the new lock, I am going to change the locks.  Are you suggesting I cannot withhold from the security deposit for the locks because she gave me the keys even though she did not have permission to change the locks?

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    No, but since I'd be changing them anyway I wouldn't use that as an excuse to charge them.  Then again, maybe it depends on how much of a PITA they were previously.

  • Real Estate Agent · Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2014 · 529 posts · 217 votes
    10y

    @Wayne Brooks You cannot charge a tenant if they changed the locks? That seems stupid.

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