I put in a new basement carpet a bit over 10 years ago. I have had a couple different tenants since, the last for 6 years. When they moved out the carpet was pretty shot...but it is 10 years old. The entire house (3br) needed to be painted. Last painting was also 10 years ago. I did not paint or have a cleaner before the last tenant moved in 6+ years ago. Can I withhold their deposit and charge them for a new carpet, full interior painting and professional cleaning? Or, are painting, carpet replacement and professional cleaning regular costs that I should absorb after 10 years?
Thanks for the input.
You have had a 6 year tenant and you are looking to charge them for carpet and paint which was 4 years old when they moved in? You didn't even clean before they moved in? If I were you I would use a fake name on my profile also and not dare show my face. Shame on you.
Mr Sizzle, here is my .02 (two cents): you should absorb the costs.
Your carpet is at the end of its useful life and then some (so I think a judge or smart tenant or their lawyer would likely be able to argue against the deposit offset). I would not deduct from the deposit, but I would replace it (see below for ideas).
The painting is going to be in the wear and tear zone after ten years and, in my view, also due to be done by the landlord. Same with cleaning unless left unreasonably dirty, this is likely in the zone of your responsibilities at turn over (some landlords have more specific lease provisions and rules on this). But if they left it about how they found it (not professionally cleaned as mentioned), it would be hard to offset lawfully.
If they left the unit undamaged and reasonably clean, I would refund the entire deposit. Many of these tasks you mention are part of the cost of doing business, such as periodic painting and replacing flooring (see some of the discussions on products like Allure if you want to avoid carpet issues).
I think you have gotten more than your nickel's worth on this paint job and flooring, and even the most frugal landlord would want to redo these at this time (turn over is the ideal time). Best of luck...
My understanding is paint is 3 years, carpet 5 years, and you can only charge a portion of that depending on how old it is. My property managers in NC explained that they do not charge security deposit for paint, ever, even after 1 year, so if there is damage to the wall, they will charge for the repair, including to repaint that portion, but not for any touch-up or repaint. We have been slowly converting from carpet flooring to sturdier stuff, tile and laminate in years past, and I think we are going with vinyl plank flooring on the next turnover.
You have had a 6 year tenant and you are looking to charge them for carpet and paint which was 4 years old when they moved in? You didn't even clean before they moved in? If I were you I would use a fake name on my profile also and not dare show my face. Shame on you.
Get legal advice. I am not sure you can charge one dime for repainting. That might be considered reasonable wear and tear. As far as the carpet, with its age, you probably don't have any right to make a claim against that. Carpeting and paint wear. This is part of being a landlord. It sounds like you are looking for an excuse to keep their deposit. If they didn't do any damage give them their deposit back.
Where is your rental? California as policies regarding paint and carpet length of time. So I would highly recommend you checking your local laws as that could spell it out black and white what you are and aren't required.
Find out what is customary in your area. Normal wear and tear and/or useful life of flooring and paint have been dealt with in your local courts. Sometimes it is actual regs, but often it is based on the way the courts rule on damage deposits. Likely it is 1-3 years for paint, and 5 years for carpet. You can't charge a tenant for full replacement or repaint as wear and tear/useful life must be prorated based on use. You've have a tenant that used the paint and carpet for 6 years. It's highly unlikely they owe you anything for wear and tear.
Where is your rental? California as policies regarding paint and carpet length of time. So I would highly recommend you checking your local laws as that could spell it out black and white what you are and aren't required.
I'm pretty sure there is no regulation or policy on useful life of carpet and paint in CA rentals. I think the guidelines are all drawn from the court rulings, but with no actual case law. Do you know of any actual regs? I've seen leases from PMs with 5 years and 10 years for carpet life.
You have had a 6 year tenant and you are looking to charge them for carpet and paint which was 4 years old when they moved in? You didn't even clean before they moved in? If I were you I would use a fake name on my profile also and not dare show my face. Shame on you.
You think there's any chance Mr. Sizzle is the OP's real name?
Thanks for all the responses. The rental is a single-family home in NJ. There were a few holes in the wall from where they hung a flatscreen TV but I asked the tenant to spackle them - along with all other nail holes - and they did.
I guess it is safe to assume many of you are experienced landlords? based on what you are all saying painting, replacing 10 year old carpet and having a professional cleaner between tenants over 5-10 years should be something to chalk up as the costs of owning a rental property.
Is there a rule of thumb for % of annual rent taken in that I should expect to put back into my property/investment (replacements, repairs,etc.) over time?
I always charge for shampooing because I have a professional system and I always do it on turnover. Since I always do it I can always charge for it unless they have it professionally done themselves. In my market, you can't charge for the first coat of paint if they've been there more than 18 months. If it needs 2 coats, that's excessive and you can charge. If it needs painted and they've been there less than 18 months, that is excessive and you can charge for it. Replacing the carpet is on you unless they damaged it. Even then at 10 years it would be on me since that's about how long I expect to get out of carpet.
You have had a 6 year tenant and you are looking to charge them for carpet and paint which was 4 years old when they moved in? You didn't even clean before they moved in? If I were you I would use a fake name on my profile also and not dare show my face. Shame on you.
You think there's any chance Mr. Sizzle is the OP's real name?
Of course , it is a fake name. Shouldn't this profile be deleted for that? Does BP have a policy about fake profiles?
Where is your rental? California as policies regarding paint and carpet length of time. So I would highly recommend you checking your local laws as that could spell it out black and white what you are and aren't required.
I'm pretty sure there is no regulation or policy on useful life of carpet and paint in CA rentals. I think the guidelines are all drawn from the court rulings, but with no actual case law. Do you know of any actual regs? I've seen leases from PMs with 5 years and 10 years for carpet life.
Here is the California's policy found at http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/se... they provide a carpet and paint rule.
2. Carpets and drapes - "useful life" rule
Normal wear and tear to carpets, drapes and other furnishings cannot be charged against a tenant's security deposit.243Normal wear and tear includes simple wearing down of carpet and drapes because of normal use or aging, and includes moderate dirt or spotting. In contrast, large rips or indelible stains justify a deduction from the tenant's security deposit for repairing the carpet or drapes, or replacing them if that is reasonably necessary.
One common method of calculating the deduction for replacement prorates the total cost of replacement so that the tenant pays only for the remaining useful life of the item that the tenant has damaged or destroyed. For example, suppose a tenant has damaged beyond repair an eight-year-old carpet that had a life expectancy of ten years, and that a replacement carpet of similar quality would cost $1,000. The landlord could properly charge only $200 for the two years' worth of life (use) that would have remained if the tenant had not damaged the carpet.
Repainting walls
One approach for determining the amount that the landlord can deduct from the tenant's security deposit for repainting, when repainting is necessary, is based on the length of the tenant's stay in the rental unit. This approach assumes that interior paint has a two-year life. (Some landlords assume that interior paint has a life of three years or more.)
Length of stayUsing this approach, if the tenant lived in the rental unit for two years or more, the tenant could not be charged for any repainting costs, no matter how dirty the walls were. 244
That's known as the TCDB my friend. (THE COST OF DOING BIZ) in the rental/tenant World. You own the property your tenants don't. Sure if they damage you're property or induce extraordinary, careless and reckless damage you can hold them accountable. But you can't hold their feet to the fire for normal wear and tear and ten years is just that. Suck it up and step up and welcome to the real World of being a LANDLORD.
Where is your rental? California as policies regarding paint and carpet length of time. So I would highly recommend you checking your local laws as that could spell it out black and white what you are and aren't required.
I'm pretty sure there is no regulation or policy on useful life of carpet and paint in CA rentals. I think the guidelines are all drawn from the court rulings, but with no actual case law. Do you know of any actual regs? I've seen leases from PMs with 5 years and 10 years for carpet life.
Here is the California's policy found at http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/se... they provide a carpet and paint rule.
2. Carpets and drapes - "useful life" rule
Normal wear and tear to carpets, drapes and other furnishings cannot be charged against a tenant's security deposit.243Normal wear and tear includes simple wearing down of carpet and drapes because of normal use or aging, and includes moderate dirt or spotting. In contrast, large rips or indelible stains justify a deduction from the tenant's security deposit for repairing the carpet or drapes, or replacing them if that is reasonably necessary.
One common method of calculating the deduction for replacement prorates the total cost of replacement so that the tenant pays only for the remaining useful life of the item that the tenant has damaged or destroyed. For example, suppose a tenant has damaged beyond repair an eight-year-old carpet that had a life expectancy of ten years, and that a replacement carpet of similar quality would cost $1,000. The landlord could properly charge only $200 for the two years' worth of life (use) that would have remained if the tenant had not damaged the carpet.
Repainting walls
One approach for determining the amount that the landlord can deduct from the tenant's security deposit for repainting, when repainting is necessary, is based on the length of the tenant's stay in the rental unit. This approach assumes that interior paint has a two-year life. (Some landlords assume that interior paint has a life of three years or more.)
Length of stay
Less than 6 months
6 months to 1 year
1 year to 2 years
2 or more years
Using this approach, if the tenant lived in the rental unit for two years or more, the tenant could not be charged for any repainting costs, no matter how dirty the walls were. 244
The DCA guidelines are not quoting or citing any law here, only making suggestions. It even says some landlords assume the paint has a 2 year life and some assume a 3 year life. So which is it? What's the minimum allowable number of years of a paint job and what's the max? It only makes sense that leases should set out the number of years of useful life so tenant and landlord are on the same page, and can then prorate properly. But that's not law. I've seen leases with paint life from 1-3 years, and flooring from 5-10 years. Pretty sure carpet and paint life are not written law or code anywhere. As you can see, I dislike citing guidelines as law or rules. :)
You have had a 6 year tenant and you are looking to charge them for carpet and paint which was 4 years old when they moved in? You didn't even clean before they moved in? If I were you I would use a fake name on my profile also and not dare show my face. Shame on you.
You think there's any chance Mr. Sizzle is the OP's real name?
Of course , it is a fake name. Shouldn't this profile be deleted for that? Does BP have a policy about fake profiles?
The site rules and the owner has stated repeatedly that everyone must use their real names. There's a lot of easy to spot evidence that it's simply not the case. :)
Where is your rental? California as policies regarding paint and carpet length of time. So I would highly recommend you checking your local laws as that could spell it out black and white what you are and aren't required.
I'm pretty sure there is no regulation or policy on useful life of carpet and paint in CA rentals. I think the guidelines are all drawn from the court rulings, but with no actual case law. Do you know of any actual regs? I've seen leases from PMs with 5 years and 10 years for carpet life.
Here is the California's policy found at http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/se... they provide a carpet and paint rule.
2. Carpets and drapes - "useful life" rule
Normal wear and tear to carpets, drapes and other furnishings cannot be charged against a tenant's security deposit.243Normal wear and tear includes simple wearing down of carpet and drapes because of normal use or aging, and includes moderate dirt or spotting. In contrast, large rips or indelible stains justify a deduction from the tenant's security deposit for repairing the carpet or drapes, or replacing them if that is reasonably necessary.
One common method of calculating the deduction for replacement prorates the total cost of replacement so that the tenant pays only for the remaining useful life of the item that the tenant has damaged or destroyed. For example, suppose a tenant has damaged beyond repair an eight-year-old carpet that had a life expectancy of ten years, and that a replacement carpet of similar quality would cost $1,000. The landlord could properly charge only $200 for the two years' worth of life (use) that would have remained if the tenant had not damaged the carpet.
Repainting walls
One approach for determining the amount that the landlord can deduct from the tenant's security deposit for repainting, when repainting is necessary, is based on the length of the tenant's stay in the rental unit. This approach assumes that interior paint has a two-year life. (Some landlords assume that interior paint has a life of three years or more.)
Length of stay
Less than 6 months
6 months to 1 year
1 year to 2 years
2 or more years
Deduction
full cost
two-thirds of cost
one-third of cost
no deduction
Using this approach, if the tenant lived in the rental unit for two years or more, the tenant could not be charged for any repainting costs, no matter how dirty the walls were. 244
The DCA guidelines are not quoting or citing any law here, only making suggestions. It even says some landlords assume the paint has a 2 year life and some assume a 3 year life. So which is it? What's the minimum allowable number of years of a paint job and what's the max? It only makes sense that leases should set out the number of years of useful life so tenant and landlord are on the same page, and can then prorate properly. But that's not law. I've seen leases with paint life from 1-3 years, and flooring from 5-10 years. Pretty sure carpet and paint life are not written law or code anywhere. As you can see, I dislike citing guidelines as law or rules. :)
That's awesome it was just guidelines. I totally thought it was the law albeit stupid because as you said paint and flooring last much longer.
Red head moment! Thanks for clear in that up. Learning something new every day
You have had a 6 year tenant and you are looking to charge them for carpet and paint which was 4 years old when they moved in? You didn't even clean before they moved in? If I were you I would use a fake name on my profile also and not dare show my face. Shame on you.
You think there's any chance Mr. Sizzle is the OP's real name?
Of course , it is a fake name. Shouldn't this profile be deleted for that? Does BP have a policy about fake profiles?
Hey Jeff (and others) - according to BP there actually is NOT a policy regarding profile names being legal names.
From the FAQ:
@Brandon Turner, @Joshua D. What do you guys think? Should this wonderful person (whoever it really is) be a part of our community?
I must be way tooooo nice as a landlord. I would not even think of charging someone for 2 yrs of wear and tear.
One of my units was flooded by the rain. I could have went cheap and just dried/wash the carpet. But I decided to just replace all of the carpet b/c I plan on getting rid of all carpet anyhow.
Knowing its a big inconvenience, I put a POD for them put their stuff in and put them in a hotel for 4 dys while we did the work.
I believe in doing the right thing. We all have difficulties in life and I appreciate when someone goes out of their way to help out. Its not always about making every penny.
If someone was a good tenant for 6 yrs, I would not only give them their deposit back but likely a gift card to thank them for 6 good years. You never know, they may come back and need a place to rent.