landlording nightmare

landlording nightmare

Detroit , MI · Member since 2015 · 40 posts · 15 votes

So my father has been a landlord for about 20 years in Detroit, under his wing ive never once heard of a story like this 

Weve had a tenant in a house for about 5 years now, hes a decent tenant and he loved the house  so allowed him to buy the house off of us with a land contract.

about 3 years ago the man decides to turn to a life of crime.
this tenant heard about one of my father's units being destroyed, he said to my father " i know who did it and ill take care of it"
the person who supposedly gutted our apartment ended murdered shortly after. the tenant claimed responsibility for it. 

at this point fearing for our lives we call the police on him, we tell them we are very sure he is selling drugs and this man is dangerous. 
the Detroit police watch him like a hawk, they raid the house and indeed find several amounts of cocaine and prescription meds. somehow the city lets him go, now the tenant is erratic with the payments. my father tries to confront him about the payments, this tenant somehow knows where our other business is located and tells him if he ever tries to evict, he will shoot us dead. 

since the first raid the police have raided the house and pulled him over several times, each time finding drugs in his possession each time getting let go. this last time we got a letter from the city of detroit ordering us to evict this tenant, we ask the police for help and  unfortunately we got nothing. the major of Detroit himself sues us and shows up to court, he makes a statement that it is our responsibility to take care of the "nuisance" and not the responsibility of the city 

with the city refusing to help and instead telling us to evict or they will take the home. my father has decided to let the home fall into tax foreclosure. the house is worth 20-35k defiantly not worth anyone's life. 

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Investor · Owasso, OK · Member since 2013 · 166 posts · 90 votes
10y

Could you market it as a turnkey to an out of towner?

Kidding. I would let it go. Sorry.

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  • Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    Wow this is a crazy story. 

    So the guy admitted to murdering someone and is still on the streets? Am I reading this correctly? Holy Detroit. 

    @Joshua D. is going to have a field day with this one. 

  • Investor · WI OH · Member since 2015 · 113 posts · 36 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Michael Noto:

    Wow this is a crazy story. 

    So the guy admitted to murdering someone and is still on the streets? Am I reading this correctly? Holy Detroit. 

    @Joshua D. is going to have a field day with this one. 

     What's his name? Maybe they can get him on the podcast.

    "How to get rid of bad tenants...by any means"

  • Brandon TurnerPro Member
    Investor · Maui, HI · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    Whoa @James S.. Dang. 

  • Detroit , MI · Member since 2015 · 40 posts · 15 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @TJ P.:
    Originally posted by @Michael Noto:

    Wow this is a crazy story. 

    So the guy admitted to murdering someone and is still on the streets? Am I reading this correctly? Holy Detroit. 

    @Joshua D. is going to have a field day with this one. 

     What's his name? Maybe they can get him on the podcast.

    "How to get rid of bad tenants...by any means"

     I would say his name. I thought about including it in the post but, the last thing I want is for him or someone else to Google his name and find out I talked bad about him or worse find out we called the police on him. 

    And the nightmare tenant practically bragged about it. But for all we know the lowlife who gutted our house was killed by another crook. Weather or not this man is crazy enough to commit murder in cold blood is not something I or my dad would like to find out. 

    And yes this is definitely an anymeans get rid of the tenant situation. Our hopes are the city will go through with their threat of locking the house up for a year or takes possession altogether 

  • Investor · Corona, CA · Member since 2014 · 746 posts · 372 votes
    10y

    WOW! This is crazy! 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @James S.  your smart to steer clear.. its a sad commentary on the city of Detroit.

    There was an Aussie investor who flew out to work on his home and got in a scuffle with one of his tenants boyfriends and the guy shot him in the chest and killed him right there in the front yard.. It made national news in Australia.

    I my self had some pretty rough goes with it in Detroit I walked away from 2 homes that I let go to tax's and lost right at 100k... its a rough rough town and really not sure if its fixable or many of the low life inhabitants are fixable.. there was a pretty compelling pod cast about the whoa's of Detroit a few weeks back.. obviously there are good ares of the city but the bad one's boy are they bad.

  • Boston, MA · Member since 2012 · 100 posts · 54 votes
    10y

    Whoa! 

  • Investor · Owasso, OK · Member since 2013 · 166 posts · 90 votes
    10y

    Could you market it as a turnkey to an out of towner?

    Kidding. I would let it go. Sorry.

  • Rental Property Investor · Friendswood, TX · Member since 2010 · 663 posts · 508 votes
    10y

    @James S.

    Not a good situation. Probably a lot of risk trying something like this but  her is a possible route maybe something of a cash for keys offer. 

    You can offer them ( or you can get a shill buyer for this , meaning someone else acts on your behalf ) say 5k if they leave the property as you had a change of heart and want to rent it instead. 

    Again I would caution about implementing something like this but doing more of a think out loud. Good luck 

  • Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2015 · 98 posts · 59 votes
    10y

    Seems like the best approach would be to just shoot the guy.  A true win/win.

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    10y

    He is probably exaggerating to scare you. Based on your post, it is clearly working.

    I personally would evict through the court system and get my house back rather than throw away tens of thousands of dollars. The reason bullies like this last so long is because people refuse to stand up to them. Letting him walk all over you doesn't guarantee your safety or that the problem will go away when you lose the house.

    If you are afraid of him, work through an attorney. If it requires fact-to-face contact, hire a couple tough guys to do it. Personally, I would handle this outside of the legal system. Most criminals, particularly druggies, do not respond to the law but they do respond to their own pain and suffering.I would launch an all-out war against this individual and run him out of town within a month. To each his own.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2014 · 230 posts · 122 votes
    10y

    Ah, Detroit...

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    10y

    It is stories like this that make landlord thankful for good tenants. In your situation, I don't know what to say. Restraining order and eviction? Remember though, if someone wants to hurt someone no law is going to stop them. I would consult with the PD and ask for guidance. BEST of luck!

  • Investor · Peachtree Corners, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Louis Miriani. Louis C. Miriani (January 1, 1897 – October 18, 1987) was an American politician who served as mayor of Detroit, Michigan (1957–62). He was the lastest Republican mayor of Detroit.

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2014 · 493 posts · 200 votes
    10y

    Touchy situation.  I assume you didn't evict due to concerns that the tenant would come after you...a really challenging decision.  Not fun living your life in fear.  This stuff is rare--so that is the good news.

    For others reading this post, Michigan allows the eviction of tenants within a unit where drug activity has occurred.  The RPOA worked with legislators several years ago to reduce the notice period to 24 hours.  This means the tenant has to vacate the premises in 24 hours after notice (you'll probably want to mail the notice--so add two days to the notice period). If the tenant doesn't move after the notice period is up, a complaint can be filed in court for eviction.  (You'll need copies of the police report showing the address and the activity.  Many police departments will be willing to send the officer(s) involved to testify in your favor...at least they will in GR.) The total process should take no more than 11-15 days since you can ask for an immediate writ--which I certainly would do with a potentially violent tenant. The drug activity does not have to be committed or caused by the tenant--it can include guests.  Usually, it's a good idea to evict quickly in these cases.  ("Immediate writ" means that a court officer/sheriff and you are authorized to put the person out any time after judgment--no extra time for the tenant to move.  Of course, you'd need to be prepared to do this.)  An attorney might even help shorten this period by asking for an immediate eviction due to potential violent activity...that would depend on the judge.

    The only other solution I can think of that might have avoided issues would have been to evict the tenant for possession only, i.e. for rehabbing, remodeling, repairing the unit, etc. and avoid creating issues.  This is essentially a no-defense eviction since you're not saying the tenant has done anything wrong.  An eviction like this can only be done at the end of the tenancy, i.e. if the lease is month-to-month, you have to give 30 days notice.  A tenant doing drugs might also be open to taking payment to move out, a.k.a. cash for keys.  An eviction like this could be done cordially--you know--"sorry, but we really need to upgrade and rehab this unit and can't really do it with tenants in place...you've been a great tenant; here's some money to help you move, etc. etc." 

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    10y

    I posted my reply and then realized I should probably include a disclaimer but I can't edit the original post. I'm a licensed REALTOR and law-abiding citizen, so I do not suggest anyone act outside of the law to deal with a bad tenant.

    There, I feel better now.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Investor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2014 · 755 posts · 462 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Touchy situation.  I assume you didn't evict due to concerns that the tenant would come after you...a really challenging decision.  Not fun living your life in fear.  This stuff is rare--so that is the good news.

    For others reading this post, Michigan allows the eviction of tenants within a unit where drug activity has occurred.  The RPOA worked with legislators several years ago to reduce the notice period to 24 hours.  This means the tenant has to vacate the premises in 24 hours after notice (you'll probably want to mail the notice--so add two days to the notice period). If the tenant doesn't move after the notice period is up, a complaint can be filed in court for eviction.  (You'll need copies of the police report showing the address and the activity.  Many police departments will be willing to send the officer(s) involved to testify in your favor...at least they will in GR.) The total process should take no more than 11-15 days since you can ask for an immediate writ--which I certainly would do with a potentially violent tenant. The drug activity does not have to be committed or caused by the tenant--it can include guests.  Usually, it's a good idea to evict quickly in these cases.  ("Immediate writ" means that a court officer/sheriff and you are authorized to put the person out any time after judgment--no extra time for the tenant to move.  Of course, you'd need to be prepared to do this.)  An attorney might even help shorten this period by asking for an immediate eviction due to potential violent activity...that would depend on the judge.

    The only other solution I can think of that might have avoided issues would have been to evict the tenant for possession only, i.e. for rehabbing, remodeling, repairing the unit, etc. and avoid creating issues.  This is essentially a no-defense eviction since you're not saying the tenant has done anything wrong.  An eviction like this can only be done at the end of the tenancy, i.e. if the lease is month-to-month, you have to give 30 days notice.  A tenant doing drugs might also be open to taking payment to move out, a.k.a. cash for keys.  An eviction like this could be done cordially--you know--"sorry, but we really need to upgrade and rehab this unit and can't really do it with tenants in place...you've been a great tenant; here's some money to help you move, etc. etc." 

    He says his problem bought from him on Land Contract. Could you elaborate on the ways you would recommend in that situation.

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2014 · 493 posts · 200 votes
    10y

    If it is truly a land contract (the word tenant was used in the post)--this person is not a tenant but a buyer.  Whether or not the tenant is an alleged criminal is a mute point.  He's already done all he can by calling the police.  As long as he is making the payments on time and fulfilling all the other land contract obligations, he's the stuckee.  Now--if by some fluke--the land contract has provisions in it that states criminal activity is not allowed and grounds for termination of the contract, I'd advise getting an attorney.  But, in that case, he is back to square one as a target for retaliation.  (And, I'm not an attorney.)

  • Anoka, MN · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 5 votes
    10y

    I think the lesson here is:

    Never disclose your financial situation, other units, or other tenants with an existing tenant.

  • Investor · Farmington, MI · Member since 2015 · 37 posts · 12 votes
    10y

    go to the local biker gang and pay them to have a talk with him. Criminals know that bikers don't play around. I have actually heard of this working. Just a talk though if you know what I mean.

  • Plano, TX · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 29 votes
    10y

    @James S.

    Did I miss something?  If you sold the property to him, then you cannot legally evict him.  If you can legally evict him, then you still own the property.  If you own the property, then you can have the city turn off utilities to the property and prevent anyone else from turning them back on.  It's hard to live through a MI winter without water or power.

    Also, if he hasn't been paying on time, does that violate the terms of the contract?  Does that void it?  If so, can the property be put up for auction?

  • Architect · Papillion, NE · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 840 votes
    10y

    Could you sell the property to someone else and let the new owner inherit the problems?  Tell the City to go pound sand because you don't own the property anymore.  

    Can we burn down the house? lol

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    10y

    Sell the land contract  . 

  • Detroit , MI · Member since 2015 · 40 posts · 15 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @James S.  your smart to steer clear.. its a sad commentary on the city of Detroit.

    There was an Aussie investor who flew out to work on his home and got in a scuffle with one of his tenants boyfriends and the guy shot him in the chest and killed him right there in the front yard.. It made national news in Australia.

    I my self had some pretty rough goes with it in Detroit I walked away from 2 homes that I let go to tax's and lost right at 100k... its a rough rough town and really not sure if its fixable or many of the low life inhabitants are fixable.. there was a pretty compelling pod cast about the whoa's of Detroit a few weeks back.. obviously there are good ares of the city but the bad one's boy are they bad.


    yes i believe i heard about that in the podcasts, an apartment manager was shot and killed in a complex about a mile away from where most of our units are located.

    we always take a non aggressive approach to dealing with people  i believe thats why we are still in business today. 

    detroit since i can remember has always been a high risk high reward location. im sorry to hear of your 100k investment being lost, weve had to let go of a few houses in the area as well. homes we buy in Detroit pay monthly 5-7% of purchase price.  but of course the risks are much greater than a less crime ridden city. 

  • Detroit , MI · Member since 2015 · 40 posts · 15 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jeff S.:

    Seems like the best approach would be to just shoot the guy.  A true win/win.

     crime never solves anything

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