So a hoarder tenant moves into your unit...

So a hoarder tenant moves into your unit...

Developer · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

... And, has their movers literally pile boxes to eye level over every square inch of the 600sqft unit, save for a 12" path from bedroom to bathroom to kitchen.  Fish tanks, boxes of stuff, things they bought and intend to resale, and lots of ... stuff ... that has no practical use in a 1 bedroom apartment.

You did your standard screening and everything checked out.  Retired couple, fixed income, references check out, involved in the community, nothing negative on credit report.  You discussed decor with them and their vision for how they'd decorate and helped them measure the rooms so they could pre-plan their furniture.

And, still, boxes and boxes and boxes of stuff.  I had one unit where such a situation caused all sorts of problems - cockroaches because they couldn't clean adequately, mold on walls because couldn't circulate, leaking I-don't-know-what from a box  that damaged the floors.  Not going through that again.

How would you approach this? How long would you let them "settle in" before laying down the hammer?  There's a "safe living space / no vermin / tidy / no clutter in the yard" clause, but nothing that specifically says "Thou shalt not hoard."

Unlikely someone with this behavior will change, but how do you give them a fair chance while protecting your options as a landlord to protect the unit?

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Real Estate Agent · Cranston, RI · Member since 2016 · 51 posts · 49 votes
10y

How long have they been in the unit?  If they have had some time to settle in and it is in the condition that you're describing definitely begin to address it. Start by calling them and letting them know you are concerned for their health and safety based on the condition.  As a result, you will be doing an inspection of the unit.  I would try to keep the tone friendly at the onset.  Send something in writing so you can reference it later, if needed. 

After doing the inspection if it still in a similar state, send them a letter describing somewhat specifically as to what you're looking for them to do.  For example, reduce the number of boxes and clutter in the living room and bedroom, etc. rather than using something more general like reduce the fire risk.  Also offer that you can provide some referrals for assistance upon request.  You can look up a couple storage facilitates in the area and also some professional organizers that may be of assistance to compete the process.  Schedule the follow up a couple weeks later in the letter.

If no attempt was made, you can give them another attempt or send a notice of noncompliance. 

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  • Real Estate Broker · Tampa, FL · Member since 2016 · 84 posts · 24 votes
    10y

    Poor thing, there was no way that you could have possibly screened for hoarding, but you could present the issue to the tenant as a fire hazard, maybe? And possibly explain that there should be a certain amount of clearance in the unit at all times, in case a fire was to ever break out. Just a thought.

  • Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
    10y
    Justin R. OUCH!! I'm sorry to read this post. I haven't any good answers but you can be sure of 1 thing once they are there they might be hard to get out. ( hard to move and I think people like that tend to be insecure being content where they are as long as their " stuff" is there) I would think your best shot is going to be to "nip it in the bud" as Barney used to say. I would think you might be able to use fire safety or health expectations as a way to apply pressure. Either to clean it up or move on whichever becomes the most prudent choice. RR
  • Tacoma, WA · Member since 2015 · 141 posts · 29 votes
    10y

    Send a citified letter to the tenants current address. The letter carrier will ask for ID then hand it to them. The letter says you will stop buy in 24 hours to give them a application or...hand them the keys. Then you can see how bad they treat the current residence.

  • Developer · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    One problem is I'm not exactly sure how to objectively describe "clean and safe". I imagine giving them a Notice to Perform, then coming back in a week or whatever and things are re-arranged ... Stuck in closets or whatever. They say: "Look how much better it is," but it's not. I'm thinking: What objective measures are there or what inspector could I hire to objectively make a determination on what's safe and what's not? It always seems to work better when I'm just executing policy with tenants rather than making subjective determinations ... Just not sure how to do it here. Thanks for the input Ralph R. And Danielle Levins and Lorin K. !!
  • Reno, NV · Member since 2016 · 328 posts · 97 votes
    10y

    Did you do a move-in inspection report? You could give them 30 days to get settled in and then schedule an inspection. 

    Something like:

    Dear X, on August 30th, I will do a post move-in inspection to check for ...

  • Real Estate Agent · Cranston, RI · Member since 2016 · 51 posts · 49 votes
    10y

    How long have they been in the unit?  If they have had some time to settle in and it is in the condition that you're describing definitely begin to address it. Start by calling them and letting them know you are concerned for their health and safety based on the condition.  As a result, you will be doing an inspection of the unit.  I would try to keep the tone friendly at the onset.  Send something in writing so you can reference it later, if needed. 

    After doing the inspection if it still in a similar state, send them a letter describing somewhat specifically as to what you're looking for them to do.  For example, reduce the number of boxes and clutter in the living room and bedroom, etc. rather than using something more general like reduce the fire risk.  Also offer that you can provide some referrals for assistance upon request.  You can look up a couple storage facilitates in the area and also some professional organizers that may be of assistance to compete the process.  Schedule the follow up a couple weeks later in the letter.

    If no attempt was made, you can give them another attempt or send a notice of noncompliance. 

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    10y

    Whoa - sorry this is happening to ya @Justin R.

    I have a similar situation.  13-yr tenant, husband died about 5 years ago.  Stuff everywhere. 

    I'm going with 'health and safety' performance. My maintenance guy and a couple others are willing to help move/sell/dispose of things.

    I am wondering if the fire dept wouldn't do a compliance check or some such for you (& us).  They will give a deadline to clean it up I bet, but might be risking fines or something on ourself.  Wish I had a definitive answer too.  Will be following how it goes, bud!

  • Jerry W.Pro Member
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    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    I have generic language on keeping the property in a neat and clean condition and nothing can increase a fire danger in the unit.  To me this is a safety issue, but you need to read your lease carefully.  You might want to enter and take pictures then take the pictures and the lease to a local real estate attorney for a professional opinion from someone who knows the local landlord laws.  There are alternatives they can use like storage units, etc.  Good luck.

  • Tacoma, WA · Member since 2015 · 141 posts · 29 votes
    10y

    Ohh btw, find a house that is about to go up for sale packed with horded goods, then no one will buy it! ask for a big discount. I am still looking for a financial partner to invest in homes in Tacoma. Re market is going crazy here.

  • Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
    10y

    @Justin R. being objective is key. It might open a bucket of worms but if this is a MFR then you focus on health and safety of the other tenants. The presence of bugs or other pests require mitigation. I don't think you can do aproper assessment for roaches or rodents with all that stuff in the way. It's a matter of time until they show up. If they are creating a fire hazard that's first and foremost your call if it's endangering your property or other tenants property. You as the landlord or your PM can make that inspection. Fire safety includes storage of combustibles, all tenants ability to access exits (including the offenders). Blocked or plugged heater vents etc etc. I would explain that to them. Then if necessary ask your local governing office. A health inspector and or the fire Dept maybe?? Trouble is be ready to fix anything else they find. Do you have smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors in the units? Good luck. RR

  • Investor · Wasilla, AK · Member since 2016 · 277 posts · 139 votes
    10y

    I think Ralph hit they key points.  Egress is necessary and subjective... If you think they can't get out, there you go.  

    A thought that just occurred to me is insurance.  You might be able to work with your insurance carrier such that you can honestly tell the tenant that their stuff puts the building's insurance at jeopardy.... then, when you feel it is clean enough.... or they're gone. you can tell them that the insurance is satisfied.  On the flip side... if you did have a fire or something, the insurance adjuster might be able to deny coverage if this situation could be to blame.

  • Investor · Ventura, CA · Member since 2016 · 264 posts · 70 votes
    10y

    We have hoarders and then we have those people that down size from a three bedroom house to a one bed apartment and try to cram everything in. Have not had much luck dealing with these people. Very interested in hearing possible cures. I tried to get the fire department involved without much luck. 

  • Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Lorin K.:

    Ohh btw, find a house that is about to go up for sale packed with horded goods, then no one will buy it! ask for a big discount. I am still looking for a financial partner to invest in homes in Tacoma. Re market is going crazy here.

     That's what happened to us last year. Neighborhood in the region of $80, property actually worth in the region of $120, house piled high. House needed about $12k of work. Picked it up for $19k. No one can see past trash.

    110cubic yards of trash.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    Hoarding is a dangerous situation, health and fire issues. There is no reason to feel you need to give them a "fair chance". They have placed your property in jeopardy. You can ask, threaten, anything you try will not improve the situation. They will ultimatly damage your property if you do not find a way to get rid of them. You can not fix mental issues and will have only two options, get rid of them or live with the damage to your property.

    You give them a 30 day notice to conform to the lease agreement to maintain the unit. You inform them that you will be bringing in the fire marshal at that time and if they do not pass inspection you will be forced to proceed with an eviction.

    The reality is that if they truly are hoarders you will never get them to clean the place out and you will have to evict. Accept this fact and position yourself to evict. they will not give you any other option.

  • Investor · Dallas TX, United States · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    You can call the health dept if you want to get rid of them. The health dept will declare you unit uninhabitable and they will be forced to move. 

  • Visalia-Fresno, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 863 votes
    10y

    Give them a few months and check on them.  If it gets worse have them move.  

    Frank

  • Tacoma, WA · Member since 2015 · 141 posts · 29 votes
    10y

    I lived in a co-op and many were evicted for one reason or another. One woman was a horder and the members voted her out....but really, what EVIDENCE did the co-op president show other then "my word of what I saw" vs "pictures...video". I know their habits can present dangerous living conditions and if they do not clean up...then yes, they do need to find another place. 

    Sadly, my dad and step mom are hoarders but its "knowledge and antiques" based meaning piles of news paper articles. My dad collected and stopped collecting antiques its filled the basement with antiques.

    But also, what does a HORDER personalty look like? 

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