Eviction/Moral Guidance
Logan AllecBusiness Member
Accountant · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 980 votes
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Eviction/Moral Guidance
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Rental Property Investor · Malvern, PA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 936 votes
10yI would contact the girlfriend and ask her for their plans to pay the rent. I imagine she is quite upset and maybe hasn't even thought about the rent if the boyfriend had been taking care of it. That will give you a sense of at least where they say they are headed. You could then decide to deliver the 3-day letter with a firm message (get out!), softer message (deposit in return for moving out) or accommodation (I'll give you 3 days to figure this out.).
In all options, still deliver the letter as that sets a relatively long process in motion.
Jim.
26 Replies
- Reno, NV · Member since 2016 · 328 posts · 97 votes10y
Guilty of two felony convictions doesn't happen overnight. My guess is that it would take at least six months for a trial date. I'd say she's had plenty of time to figure something out.
3-day PQ -- the county social worker can help her with a plan if she is eligible.
- 10yRonald PerichPro MemberInvestor · Granite City, IL · Member since 2014 · 658 posts · 301 votes
@Logan Allec, I credit you for caring about the well-being of your residents. You should be glad that this caused you to pause for a moment.
Unfortunately, you cannot make the problems of others your problems. Serve the three-day notice. The court systems will work this out, and people in these situations will often find a friend or family member to stay with when push comes to shove. And an eviction is going to take you time anyway.
I also have to ask if you are running a business or a charity? Most likely a business.
There are others who are in the charity space and will help out this mother and child. If you don't yet have a list of organizations in the area who can help folks with their housing needs, I suggest you put together that list and give it to the mom. What she chooses to do with it is up to her.
But don't make it your responsibility to fix her problems. You'll drive yourself crazy if you do this every time someone has a reason for not paying on time.
- Investor · NOVA, VA · Member since 2014 · 99 posts · 101 votes10y
There was another thread recently like this where the tenant was sick. In that thread I gave a hard boiled answer that you should always follow the lease. But I think that was wrong, I think what I would do in this situation is ask my spouse for her opinion. No reason to make this uncomfortable situation uncomfortable in my own home.
- Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes10y
I am right here.
Business is business. You are not likely to see another dime from this tenant and every day you waste is going to ultimately cost you money.
You are a landlord not a social agency, friend or relative. They are all first in line to take responsibility and assist her to pay the rent. When you evict all those "concerned individuals" will be responsible for stepping in to assist her.
The personal problems of others are not your concern. If you place your business first you are able to provide housing to others if you let your emotions interfere with your decisions you risk bankruptcy and can no longer do what you do.
Business first, Tenants second. It is always that simple.
- Rental Property Investor · Malvern, PA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 936 votes10y
I would contact the girlfriend and ask her for their plans to pay the rent. I imagine she is quite upset and maybe hasn't even thought about the rent if the boyfriend had been taking care of it. That will give you a sense of at least where they say they are headed. You could then decide to deliver the 3-day letter with a firm message (get out!), softer message (deposit in return for moving out) or accommodation (I'll give you 3 days to figure this out.).
In all options, still deliver the letter as that sets a relatively long process in motion.
Jim.
- 10yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
The other thread on this topic also suggested serving and referring the occupant to local charities. In this situation I think when you do serve (and you will eventually have to) I would ask her plans regarding her living situations. You will need to do the formal notice but I would also let her know that you are open to making it easy for her to move out given that is what she probably needs to do. Some things you might offer include giving the SD deposit if certain conditions are met. Two months post baby she may be super emotional. That is something I would worry about the most depending on how emotionally stable she is. Not because I don't think you should upset people but you don't want to unneccessarily escalate the situation..
- Investor · Member since 2016 · 54 posts · 21 votes10y
I would follow your states landlord/tenant laws first off. As regard to the girlfriend and child that is up to you. Being this is the second offense that means this has happened before. There a many resources available to her like social workers and assistance programs, I would make sure she is aware of what resources are available to her. As a landlord it seems is it only your responsibility to provide a place to live, when it comes to social and legal issues between your tenants that is their issue. I would stay within my scope of practice as a landlord by providing resources, but it is not the landlords job for charity or social problem solving. Unless that is your current business model for charitable housing which is also a great way to help your community. There are some local homeless veterans programs around that help housing and provide resources to people with legal or social issues. I'm sure there are some other services available to her for single parents facing legal/social issues. Key is to keep emotions out of it. Hope that helps.
- Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes10y
This is never a pleasant situation, but as others have said, have a discussion with her about what she's planning. Let her know that as a matter of procedure, you'll be posting a Pay or Quit on the 3rd day (or whatever is legal in CA), but you're willing to work with her to avoid eviction. There are good suggestions here about how to help her.
I've had to evict a young couple with a baby, a single father with 3 kids, and a single mother with 2 young kids. Most tenants have families, and evictions happen eventually. It's unpleasant, but unless you're in the position - financially and emotionally - to be willing to provide free housing to your tenants, you'll have to make this decision quickly. When I was a new landlord, someone on BP had commented that a landlord should never feel sorry for their tenants, because the tenants will never feel sorry for them. If you lost your job, would your tenants pay *your* mortgage?
Business decisions are tough, and I hope this works out well for you and your tenant.
- Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes10y
Felony conviction,, does that violate your Crime Free/ Drug Free addendum. Do you require no felonies on your rental application. If so this would clearly mean he no longer qualifies to remain at your property, and they both need to be made aware of that your terminating the rental agreement due to non-compliance. So you have more than late rent to file for.
I would personally give the pay quit notice addressed to all adults in unit. I would ask her what thier plans are and they are considering to vacate, if so you could tell them if they leave apartment clean and are gone in a week, you won't file the court eviction case, which could adversely affect their housing record. If they don't agree and sign that you can change the locks on >>>>date file the next day.
Get the agreement in writing and must be signed in 24 hours or file.
- Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes10y
"I will have to evict them sooner or later"
With 2 felonies this guy is going away. So what is the point of waiting if you KNOW the girlfriend will not be able to pay the rent?
You've talking California here. Even if you give them a 3-Day Pay or Quit notice it's still a while before this goes through the entire court process for eviction.
Begin the process NOW and get on with the business of being a landlord.
Gail
- Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2014 · 38 posts · 16 votes10y
Wow! Very tough decision in my opinion.
I have one rental unit and have only had it for 6 years so my wisdom may not compare to some of these other posters who are more business-like than me. Take this with a grain of salt.
I can see where folks are coming from with the "this is a business" aspect. It may be easy for us to sit at our desks and tell you to "keep emotions out of this." But, you are actually in the situation and there is no way to keep emotions out of this.
Don't we help people all the time? We stop and help people stranded on the side of the road. We help people through church or other organizations who can't pay their electric bill. I used my money to buy a meal for a homeless person just last night. Somehow, since these aren't our tenants, helping them seems easy, different - not a business decision. But, we do use money from our business to perform these acts of mercy, don't we?
I'm not sure I want to disengage my emotions/feelings when dealing with people who are in a tough situation - even if they are my tenants.
I guess, all of this to say, (Let the flaming begin!) I would listen to her and within "reason", I would try to help if I were able. I would probably let her know there is a limit to how much "grace" I can provide.
So, even though it may be a really bad business/REI decision to help, is that really all that matters?
- Real Estate Agent · Scarborough, ME · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 2 votes10y
Kudos to you, Link for being compassionate enough to pause and take stock of the situation. I'd at least speak to her directly, and inquire about her future housing plans. In my experience, one can still deliver a 'bitter' pill with some honey on the side. Don't let her play you though. That's when you stand firm, and put your foot down.
- Investor · West Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 230 posts · 239 votes10y
A friend of mine was homeless after she could no longer pay the rent. She volunteered to leave if she got her deposit back & no eviction on her record. Her baby was a few months old when this happened. There are shelters available she Went to in Los Angeles that took her in. I don't own rentals but I'm a mother of 2 so I have extreme compassion for her situation & don't envy you. I would offer to refund her deposit in full & if possible put her up in a cheap hotel in the area for a few days so she can call public services if she needs to. You can't put a price on compassion and any of the other posters that said separate emotions business is business I ask them to take a newborn and put it in the street & then go to sleep at night. In this world you get what you give. Good luck
- Rental Property Investor · Beverly Hills, CA · Member since 2014 · 472 posts · 272 votes10y
You're a kind person @Account Closed
- Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2016 · 46 posts · 33 votes10y
I own 5 rentals, and while it is indeed a business, part of the reason I got into being a landlord was to feel like I was doing something more meaningful other than sitting in a cubicle all day for a big telecommunications company. I have had my fair share of late rent payments. However, I always treat my tenants like they are extended family. I have sent wedding gifts, I check on things every so often, I even brought food to a hospital. What I didn't anticipate was how much this attitude becomes a valuable business decision. When your tenants see that you care, they almost always care right back. I have yet to have a unit trashed, and have had tenants stay longer than they would normally because they liked how I treated them. Every time I was lenient on a late payment, efforts were made to get caught up, which is always better than vacancies or evictions. Of course there are exceptions to this, but I generally try to weed these types of people out early on. Perhaps my time is coming.
With that said, I feel your tenant should be able to plead her case with you. If you feel there is enough hope to go on, then you can make a calculated risk if waiting for her payment outweighs an eviction/turnover. Either way, I applaud your compassion.
Ken
- Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2015 · 374 posts · 120 votes10y
Evict. Everyone has a sob story.
- Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes10y
Congratulations to all those with the compassion to allow tenants to stay rent free.
Please spread the word around BP when you are on the brink of bankruptcy and ready to sell at a discount, think of us first.
The reality is that business decisions are the easiest decisions to make in life.
If you find them to be difficult due to conflicting emotions you should not be in business or at the very least recognise that you need someone else to operate your business and make those day to day business decisions for you.
If you can not separate business from personal then you are also likely mixing your business problems with your home life. Good luck with that scenario.
- Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2016 · 46 posts · 33 votes10y
Thanks Greg, although my tenants don't stay rent free and I'm far from bankruptcy. Since we all like to generalize, good luck to all of you ruthless slumlords and your 20% vacancy rates.
- Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes10y
Wait a second here. Just because someone with the experience of Greg points out that this is a business and some of us have written that this is going to be a hopeless cause for this girlfriend paying the rent (even the OP wrote that he will have to evict them "sooner or later) this does NOT make us "ruthless slumlords" in any sense of the word.
Gail
- Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2016 · 46 posts · 33 votes10y
I agree with you, Gail. My compassion for other people also does NOT make me someone who is going to let people stay rent free and cause me to desperately file bankruptcy. Why do you consider Greg's generalization "an experience", but yet my reply is wrong?
- Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes10y
Probably because mine is right and yours IS wrong. Just my guess since operating a business by strict policies has no relevance to being a slum lord nor does enforcing rules and taking prompt action have any bearing on vacancy rates.
It is possible that my 3500 + months of tenant history on only one of my properties gives me some leeway to generalise.
- 10yRonald PerichPro MemberInvestor · Granite City, IL · Member since 2014 · 658 posts · 301 votes
I am with Greg S on this one (wish Android would work with the @ symbol). I have no problem with trying to figure out a solution that works for everyone, but my experience tells me that you will end up with a new resident sooner or later.
And are you doing this current tenant a favor by constantly stressing her out with this possibility and that possibility? She's already in a very tough spot and the continual back and forth between you will just add to it IMHO.
Give her everything you can to help, but don't delay the inevitable. It adds to your stress levels and theirs.
- 10yJJ ConwayPro MemberFinancial Advisor · Stephenville, TX · Member since 2016 · 163 posts · 85 votes
Balancing the heart and the business can, indeed, get sticky!!
Here’s the thing, though: If she truly can’t afford to live there, you’re NOT HELPING by ignoring this. Not helping HER (for many reasons including delaying her acceptance of reality). Not helping YOURSELF (and actually hurting your legal case the longer you let her stay there with no valid agreement).She needs to take action and nothing spurs tenant action like the landlord taking action. The great thing about most good people is that if we take action, they will do what they need to do.
Nothing wrong with talking to her, preferably while delivering the news that his behavior has terminated the lease (if you have that clause) and that she either needs to qualify for on her own and sign a new lease or move on. We’re all assuming he’s been paying the bills, but you never know. She could be the one footing it and just forgot to pay during this turbulent time.
If she doesn’t qualify or won’t sign (or if you don’t have that clause) remind her of the holdover charges listed in the lease and serve “pay or quit” letter. Could also provide a list of charitable orgs that could help her move/provide shelter. Of course, be nice about it, letting her know it’s nothing personal and that you wish you could do more to help her. You could offer to let her out of the lease with security deposit back (check laws to make sure he doesn’t have a right to some first).AS others have suggested, I’d get her agreement to move by XYZ date (in writing) and even help with the move if she’ll leave it in good condition (one time we rented and drove the truck for someone).But I would check with your jurisdiction first before changing locks and throwing stuff out. Especially if you let this drag out into the holidays (please don’t).
- Investor · St. Thomas, Ontario · Member since 2015 · 692 posts · 312 votes9y
Are there by chance any other single mothers in your city? Perhaps you can start paying their rent, too. This ridiculous statement is 100% identical to what you "moral" option is. So if you don't go around paying the rents of as many single mothers as you can, then you aren't living up to the moral standard that you are proposing.
It isn't like this person is a victim. She decided to have a relationship with a criminal. She decided to have a baby. She has created this situation entirely on her own.
If you want to go above and beyond, then go sit down with her, person to person, and provide a bunch of options for her to find rent assistance or a way out quickly and easily. Hell, if you want to really shoot for the moon, rent a moving truck for her.
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