My tenant got shot. What do I do?

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My tenant got shot. What do I do?

Justin Harford
Eugene, OR · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 3 votes

Greetings bigger pockets.

I need urgent help. I am living in an owner occupied duplex and renting out the other side. This is my first rental and I closed last December.

My tenant just got shot last night. It's not clear if he got shot by himself or by someone else, though it happened inside, and the officer did not mention anything about a break-in. I hope I will be finding out more details about that later today.

He had a girlfriend and they had recently broken up. They also have a child and a pet.

It seems like there are a lot of implications that this has, and that I need help understanding. I also need to figure out what the next steps are for myself. Should I get new tenants? How do I approach it with his girlfriend and him if they want to stay or not? It seems like they would want to go but I'm not sure. How easy is it to even rent out again? It looks like Oregon law says that I don't have to disclose to prospective future tenants, though I think it was fairly obvious that something had happened since the police and the fire department were there for so long.

Has this ever happened to anyone and what steps did you take?

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Most Popular Reply

Marcia Maynard
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y

Attempted suicide or domestic violence or both. Whatever the reason, I would have a sit down talk with your tenants. Check in to make sure they are okay and find out what they need at this point. 

If they need to move, make it easy for them to leave by releasing them from their lease obligations without penalty. Move forward as you would with the termination of any tenancy and make-ready the unit for the next tenant.

If they need to stay, go over the terms of the rental agreement and re-establish understanding about the property rules regarding "peace and quiet" "safety" "crime" and "firearms on the property." It's quite likely that discharging a firearm within the city limits is a violation of a local ordinance, it is in my town, so check out that aspect. If one of your tenants or their invitee was the one who discharged the firearm, then that could easily be a violation of one of the terms in the current lease agreement and grounds for serving a Notice to Comply, or similar type notice to bring them back into compliance.

Do not attempt to evict without clearing this through an attorney, as you don't want to violate laws that protect the rights of the tenants. Attempted suicide can result from mental duress and/or mental illness, so think about protected classes of people. Assault and attempted murder are crimes, so if that was the case, you could quite likely evict the perpetrator. Collect your facts first and seek legal counsel.

16Reply
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  • Stanley Parsley
    Investor · Chandler, AZ · Member since 2015 · 409 posts · 214 votes
    9y

    ouch

    id change my lease agreements

    you have to really do backgrounds and screenings on your tenants

    no matter what the deal is id get them out of there do the cleanup and move on

    give a time frame to rerent at about 30 days

    enjoy

    2Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    If it was related to a personal issue with your tenants, self inflicted, get rid of them asap. Serve notice and move on.

    If it was someone else that brought the weapon in you need to assess the root cause but the likely hood is you will still need to get new tenants.

    If they do not leave as requested you will need to evict, you should have sufficient grounds based on the gun issue. 

    This is another good example of the advantages in support of M2M leases.

    2Reply
  • Justin Harford
    OP
    Eugene, OR · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    9y

     I know what you are going to be thinking… I inherited them from the previous owner. They are on a year lease and have rights until October.  Since they had recently separated without telling me, they might just want to leave anyway. At any rate, what legal standing does attempted suicide give a property manager to terminate a year lease? Damages to the property? Oregon statutes say that a lease can be terminated for   an act  which is defined as "out rages in the extreme," among those being prostitution or manufacturer/selling of drugs. It does not define self harm, and in fact it seems like it's pretty hard to figure out what it means. Thoughts? 

    1Reply
  • John Thedford
    Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    Self inflicted? Negligence? Intentional? Though you may not know the reason, I would seriously consider talking to my attorney first and my insurance company next. I have never had this issue but there is always the possibility. Now that you have had an incident, that may be a reason you need to take certain actions in the event another issue of the same manner happens with the same tenant. 

    3Reply
  • Jeff Sprunger
    Lockport , NY · Member since 2014 · 265 posts · 124 votes
    9y

    talk to your lawyer and cooperate with the police.  not really much else you can do about it!

    2Reply
  • Brian Garlington
    Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Justin Harford

    Go talk to your tenant and ask them what happened. 

    Ask the police for a police report....as the owner of the property you have a vested interest in this and see if the police report jives with what the tenant says

    Ask your insurance company if this is something that they believe could have ramifications on your policy

    Even if your tenants have until October on their lease, you as the new owner of an owner occupied duplex may.....I repeat may, be able to tell them to leave because you are the new owner.

    Either way, you need to seriously get them out of there.....whether it's a suicide attempt,,,a domestic violence issue,.....an accidental discharge or someone coming to the duplex to confront your tenant and the end result is someone discharged a gun.....it's bad news. Now your neighbors are wondering what kind of people they have living next to them.......and What happens when you move on to your next property and new tenants move in to where you are at now and they find out they are living next to people that had a gun incident......and not to mention your own peace of mind knowing YOU are now living next to that kind of foolishness.

    Either way it goes,.....you need to get them out of there......

    0Reply
  • Marcia Maynard
    Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    Attempted suicide or domestic violence or both. Whatever the reason, I would have a sit down talk with your tenants. Check in to make sure they are okay and find out what they need at this point. 

    If they need to move, make it easy for them to leave by releasing them from their lease obligations without penalty. Move forward as you would with the termination of any tenancy and make-ready the unit for the next tenant.

    If they need to stay, go over the terms of the rental agreement and re-establish understanding about the property rules regarding "peace and quiet" "safety" "crime" and "firearms on the property." It's quite likely that discharging a firearm within the city limits is a violation of a local ordinance, it is in my town, so check out that aspect. If one of your tenants or their invitee was the one who discharged the firearm, then that could easily be a violation of one of the terms in the current lease agreement and grounds for serving a Notice to Comply, or similar type notice to bring them back into compliance.

    Do not attempt to evict without clearing this through an attorney, as you don't want to violate laws that protect the rights of the tenants. Attempted suicide can result from mental duress and/or mental illness, so think about protected classes of people. Assault and attempted murder are crimes, so if that was the case, you could quite likely evict the perpetrator. Collect your facts first and seek legal counsel.

    16Reply
  • Anastasia Jordan
    Investor · Birmingham, AL · Member since 2016 · 446 posts · 305 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Justin Harford:

     At any rate, what legal standing does attempted suicide give a property manager to terminate a year lease? 

    I know this is a serious topic but my spirit just feels a little stained.  <coldblooded>

    I feel sorry for the person who tried to off himself but with my anxiety and paranoia there is no way I could live peacefully with them one wall away from where I lay my head. 

    0Reply
  • Sam Yi
    Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 25 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    Are you allowed to have a no gun clause in your lease. Thanks for posting. This is certainly alarming. 

    0Reply
  • Chris Parrish
    Flipper/Rehabber · Bend, OR · Member since 2016 · 209 posts · 87 votes
    9y

    With regards on how to handle the tenant situation - you need to consult a lawyer. It will be costly, but its a must. 

    However, I HAVE HAD this happen before in the Portland metro area. Our situation is a little different because the tenant was shot and killed by the police. So there were no eviction notices for us to give. We just coordinated the distribution of his belongings. However, we thoroughly cleaned up the apartment and had new flooring put in (blood stain). We did not disclose it to the new tenants. I am sure if they googled their property address they could find something, but who knows. 

    Good luck, keep us posted on what happens. 

    1Reply
  • William Walker
    Investor · Wilmington, NC · Member since 2016 · 211 posts · 262 votes
    9y

    Think you've jumped the gun a bit on this one (ZING!)

    You need to get the information before you do anything.  It's not even worth talking to an attorney yet because you're just going to tell them that you have no idea what's goin on. 

    Get the police report and talk to your tenant.  We are assuming the tenant survived but you didn't say.  Get more info and come back.

    @Sam Yi I would highly suspect that you can't have a "no gun" clause in your lease.  Might be hard to override the constitution with your lease.

    2Reply
  • Sam Yi
    Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 25 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    There are plenty of things you are "legally" allowed to do but can restrict in your lease. Ie. pet ownership. Also, wouldn't this be part of the "bundle of rights" ... more specifically, right of control and possibly right of exclusion? In any case, I'll reach out to a lawyer to see if this is possible.

    0Reply
  • William Walker
    Investor · Wilmington, NC · Member since 2016 · 211 posts · 262 votes
    9y

    Did some research on this and apparently I was dead wrong.  Some states have limited the owners ability to restrict the ability of the tenants to own firearms in the home, but it can be excluded in a contract. 

    2Reply
  • Rich N.Pro Member
    Investor · Haverhill, MA · Member since 2015 · 761 posts · 328 votes
    9y

    I think you need to first start out finding out what actually happened?  Get a copy of the police report.  Talk to your tenant (in a nice way) by seeing how they are doing and THEN what happen. 

     You might find out they are fed up and want to leave, so then tell them you would allow it penalty free (trust me, you may lose rent for the month....but look on the bright side).

    As for the gun, I am unsure if you can legally restrict it on your lease, BUT if the gun was not legal or the owner does not have a valid license (if required in your state), then you can move for an eviction based on that.

    0Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    9y

    @Justin Harford after you gather the facts, you will need to review if any lease violation took place. My lease prohibits fire arms and crime. Only one of three things could have happened here:

    1. Shot himself, attempted suicide

    2. Someone else shot him, girlfriend, acquaintance or random stranger.

    3. Gun went off while cleaning (usually this is a BS cover up for a crime)

    Get the facts and go from there. Don't let his injury stop you from doing what needs to be done. For example if he shot himself, you just let him know discharging firearms in your property with the intent to inflict harm is a crime. It may sound cold evicting someone in the hospital, but it wasn't your decision that created the mess.

    I don't think perspective tenants will care if it turns out to be domestic dispute or self inflicted. If it involved actual death in the property or localized crime, that could be a major problem. Get into the property to clean up the blood as soon as the police clear the scene.

    0Reply
  • Justin Harford
    OP
    Eugene, OR · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    9y

     Thank you everybody for your feedback. He survived. It was a shoulder wound. No break in. Unfortunately my contract that I  inherited  does not have a no guns clause.  It is illegal in Oregon to improperly discharge a firearm within city limits, and this might fall under that.   

    2Reply
  • Adrien C.
    Property Manager · Griffith, IN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 913 votes
    9y

    I haven't read my lease since I singed it a long time ago but I'm screwed if there's a no gun clause in there. Gun ownership doesn't fall under a protected category if that scares you, add it to the application questions. You can discriminate against gun owners all you want. 

    0Reply
  • Adrien C.
    Property Manager · Griffith, IN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 913 votes
    9y

    @Dan G. I wasn't involved. 

    1Reply
  • Dan Bryskin
    Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2015 · 252 posts · 263 votes
    9y

    @Justin Harford

    Whatever happened, having guns go off next door is not a good thing. Get rid of the guy. Usually a sergeant or somebody senior in the  police department will be assigned to handle the case like that. Ask him / her. Schedule an appointment, see guy in person. See if this incident violated any local statues you can use for the eviction. See if the cop will have any ideas / suggestions. Them guys could be extremely helpful if the choose to do so. Also, talk to a few attorneys. As a potential client, they will give you a free consultation. Ask what they can do for you and what would be bases for the eviction. Don't worry about renting the unit, but make sure your next tenant is properly screened and your lease is bullet proof :) Good luck.

    0Reply
  • Jeff B.
    Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    Attempt to gain control of the unit - - contact the coroner and/or police dept and get it released to you - - touch NOTHING until then.

    Contact roommate if she was not present & find nearest relative.

    You will have to handle all property as Abandoned Property per your State regs.

    In Calif, we have to notify the next tenant that there was a death in the unit. but do not have to state the reason - - verify your State requirements.

    0Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Can't imagine anyone is a bad enough shot to hit themselves in the shoulder with a attempted suicide. Who is your tenant Forest Gump.

    I do not know your landlord tenant regs but in most cases interfering with the reasonable enjoyment of another tenant, or in your case the landlord, is just grounds for eviction.

    4Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · NOVA, VA · Member since 2014 · 99 posts · 101 votes
    9y

    File this under the category of "things they don't mention at the guru boot camp."

    11Reply
  • Kevin Allen
    Louisville, KY · Member since 2015 · 166 posts · 83 votes
    9y
    I think the easiest thing to do would be to just pull the trigger and go see your lawyer
    4Reply
  • Justin Harford
    OP
    Eugene, OR · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    Reflections

    I have a recommendation of an attorney who I'm going to call tomorrow. In my lease, it's provided that the tenants are liable for any damage that they inflict on the property, and from a conversation over the phone, it sounds like the damage is pretty severe… Enough to exceed my deductible. It was recommended, though not required in the rental contract that they had rental insurance. They didn't. It seems like they could be put on notice that they owe me for those damages.

    Another issue is that it sounds like there is some blood smattering in the unit on the floors and some on the walls. So there is The question of finding a properly certified cleaner to come and remove that… Someone licensed in biohazard cleanup. It seems like we might just have to replace the carpets in general, though one person advising me doesn't think so.

    It's sad, because when I moved here, this whole area gives such an impression of being a nice neighborhood. A lot of the houses around us show pride of ownership. It seems like we are just a few duplexes around here in a whole neighborhood of single-family homes. When it stops raining you hear the kids running around and playing in the park nearby, and in people's backyards. Similarly, the tenants have been very good as well. The previous owner apparently like them so much he extended their lease. They seemed to take care of the unit, even the yard which is quite large. They've never been a problem in the past. Maybe the guy just screwed up.

    It reminds me of a story that the seller told us. He had previously rented to someone who seemed like a great pic. She was a secretary, seem like a good person. I don't know how much he background checked her. At any rate he said it cost him about $3000 to put the place back to the way it was when he rented it to her. Background checking is extremely important, and I definitely feel like I would've had a peace of mind if I had background checked the tenants myself and check the references, but I sometimes wonder if I would've found anything. It seems like you could find depravity and darkness even in the most pleasant places.

    At any rate, I am also trying to see if I can get the police report, and possibly some clues before the police report, which will not be released possibly for another week. I guess I'm hoping maybe that it will tell me something about the truthfulness of the story that the tenants are telling me.

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    Ok no ONE brought this up.

    but if your house hacking IE living in one of the units  you have the right to discriminate against anyone you don't want to rent to .. this is federal law.. check the republic of Eugene law.

    but that is one of the great benefits of living in your one to four unit. you can totally pick who you want to co exist with.

    I understand you inherited this tenant.. I am just talking about once you get this figured out.

    And I have had 2 suicides in my homes in Orygun.. one successful  gun shot but he went out in the backyard.. another pills.   both were homes I bought at courthouse steps and the people simply would not move and after 6 to 12 months of letting them live for free I finally had to evict them it was on the day the cops were coming  and they were both found by the cops.

    @Account Closed  and yes none of this is taught in Guru camps.. owning rentals can be rewarding for sure and can be really stressful to unrewarding LOL

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