DESPERATE NEED of landlord help

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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DESPERATE NEED of landlord help

Brigitte Beauchat
Real Estate Agent · Titusville, PA · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 6 votes

Hello! I am brand new to BiggerPockets and semi new to real estate in general. I am a real estate agent and landlord to one property in Northwest PA. The property is a 2/1 single family in an alley. I have had a tenant for 9 months with the lease expiring at the end of this month (August). In the last couple months I have noticed an extra vehicle in the driveway and extra belongings (a motorcycle). Long story short my tenant has a new boyfriend that lives out of state but "visits twice a month".The lease we use is straight from the Managing Rental Properties book and obviously this situation is against the lease in several aspects. I (through texting) asked about adding boyfriend to the lease. She was instantly defensive and ended up upset with me claiming invasion of privacy and that I accused her a being a bad tenant (I actually said THREE times that she was a great tenant). We were going to sign a new 9 month lease this week but after this exchange she is unsure if she would like to stay and I am unsure if she should stay. She said she definitely doesn't want to add boyfriend to the lease. How I left the conversation is that I would "follow up with you on Monday with a list of options to stay or instructions to vacate. I hope we can work something out so that both parties are satisfied. Have a good weekend." I can provide the whole conversation if needed! I also want to mention I heavily used reference to the lease and that I was just following policy.

 So now I need help on how to proceed?! I was thinking I would provide her with three options: 1. Add boyfriend to lease and nothing changes. 2. Have boyfriend sign a document stating that he does not live there and he is not a tenant. And furthermore requiring the removal of the motorcycle and only allowing his car to be parked in the driveway on a temporary basis (not sure what the parameters should be on that?). And 3. Not renewing the lease. Does this sound reasonable? Am I being too strict? She really has been a great tenant and I would hate to lose her but I also want to follow the lease to protect my business. WHAT WOULD YOU DO? Thank you in advanced!

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Dawn BrenengenBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y

@Brigitte Beauchat I would put yourself in her shoes for a moment.  She may be into this guy, but that doesn't mean she wants to have a legal document binding herself with him in a living situation.  I think your plan #2 of having him sign that he is NOT a tenant is better, but I don't really see why you need that necessarily.  Honestly, if she's a great tenant, then I'm not really sure that I would worry about her boyfriend spending the night there.  Do you suspect that he's living there or do you think he's just there a lot?  On our standard leases we have a place to list "additional occupants," so if I really wanted to be by the letter, I would list his name there.

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  • David Dachtera
    Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    Hhhmmm... Sounds like trouble. Best not to renew, I think.

    2Reply
  • Clayton Barnes
    Bloomington, IN · Member since 2017 · 53 posts · 37 votes
    9y

    Are you saying that he is storing the vehicles at the property or just that you're seeing them more than a "twice a month?"

    0Reply
  • Dawn BrenengenBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Brigitte Beauchat I would put yourself in her shoes for a moment.  She may be into this guy, but that doesn't mean she wants to have a legal document binding herself with him in a living situation.  I think your plan #2 of having him sign that he is NOT a tenant is better, but I don't really see why you need that necessarily.  Honestly, if she's a great tenant, then I'm not really sure that I would worry about her boyfriend spending the night there.  Do you suspect that he's living there or do you think he's just there a lot?  On our standard leases we have a place to list "additional occupants," so if I really wanted to be by the letter, I would list his name there.

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  • Michael Cheng
    Professional · Berkeley, CA · Member since 2017 · 5 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    What's your objection to the boyfriend's visits? Do you suspect something underhanded is going on? If not, and if the tenant is as great as you say I wouldn't make it an issue. Tenants should be entitled to have overnight visits from their significant others without having to add them to the lease.

    4Reply
  • Deborah BurianPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 412 votes
    9y

    Lots of possibilities here but I favor @Dawn Brenengen's view, at most add him as an additional occupant.  Your lease should account for how long someone can stay without being an occupant.  However, if the whole thing is creeping you out for some reason we're not seeing, you don't have to renew. Finally, if the motorcycle shouldn't be parked in the alley, tell her to remove it.  That doesn't require any discussion of the boyfriend, just removing property that shouldn't be there. 

    0Reply
  • Walt Dockery
    Investor · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2017 · 171 posts · 165 votes
    9y

    I'm not an experienced landlord but just as someone who's been single most of my adult life I don't see anything wrong with a signif. other staying over and not being on the lease. 

    If the motorcycle is the issue ask her to move it, if it's a parking issue address the parking issue. But I can see her pov having a significant other who stays over a lot but one or both not wanting/ready to "move in together" and I certainly wouldn't want a landlord telling me to put that person on my lease if they weren't living there full time and still had their own place. 

    Do you want his landlord putting her on his lease too?

    0Reply
  • Austin Fruechting
    Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2017 · 791 posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    If she actually has been a good tenant, you aren't going to change the rental rate, why not just let it go to month to month?

    4Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    I am with Austin on this one. Sign her onto a M2M lease and see how it goes. She may refuse and want a term lease. In that case let her leave with proper notice. 

    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 736 posts · 582 votes
    9y

    Agree with @Dawn Brenengen.  Put yourself in the tenant's shoes.  I don't think it's unreasonable to have someone visit for a few days - an extra car (motorcycle) parked in the area isn't going to do anyone any harm.  From her perspective, she may be thinking you are asking her to commit to a relationship she isn't ready to commit to.  Go month to month, or extend the lease another term and go from there.

    0Reply
  • Brigitte Beauchat
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Titusville, PA · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    The lease states any person that stays 14 days or longer must be on the lease and that only one vehicle per adult on the lease is allowed to be parked on the premises. He is definitely staying there a lot. I don't know exact dates. The thing I am worried about is that I have not personally researched this guy. I don't know his criminal history or tenant history or credit history. From what I understand is if she decides to move out and he won't leave when she does, I would still have to go through an eviction process even though I never signed a lease. Correct me if im wrong... but that is what I'm trying to avoid. 

    1Reply
  • Brigitte Beauchat
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Titusville, PA · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 6 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Clayton Barnes:

    Are you saying that he is storing the vehicles at the property or just that you're seeing them more than a "twice a month?"

     He is definitely storing his motorcycle there and the car is just there when he is. He might only visit "twice a month" but it seems to be an extended visit! 

    0Reply
  • Brigitte Beauchat
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Titusville, PA · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 6 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Michael Cheng:

    What's your objection to the boyfriend's visits? Do you suspect something underhanded is going on? If not, and if the tenant is as great as you say I wouldn't make it an issue. Tenants should be entitled to have overnight visits from their significant others without having to add them to the lease.

     I am worried because he seems to be staying much longer than overnight visits and is storing his things on the property. I don't want an unintentional tenant that I have not vetted myself. 

    0Reply
  • Wesley W.
    Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    Your concerns are not unfounded.  I think some of the folks providing input own rental property in areas where the tenancy laws are more equitable  (e.g. reasonable ).  In some areas (like mine, and I assume yours) anyone that starts "staying over" and storing personal items gets FULL tenancy rights,  regardless of what the lease says.  (I know that seems crazy to folks in other parts of the country, but that's what some of us have to work with in running our business. )

    If that is your case, I would get something in writing from him stating that he is not a tenant of record and he will not make a claim as such without signing a lease agreement with the owner.  (Consult your attorney for appropriate terminology in the statement. )

    Good luck!

    3Reply
  • Max T.
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    What is your goal?
    2Reply
  • Mike Koprowski
    Rental Property Investor · Brimfield, MA · Member since 2017 · 43 posts · 53 votes
    9y
    My lease states "a guest staying any more than 7 days" I think 2 weeks is too long and bad habits may start to form. Do you pay any utilities for the tenant? Electricity? Water/sewer? Will a long term guest have any affect your bottom line? If so that's a problem. Also, what if this goes unchecked and he becomes a "permanent" guest... then your leased tenant decides to move out in the middle of the night...but he decides to stay and not pay....that's also a problem, the scenarios are endless. Now, I totally get that as young adults you need to have your freedom to have "one night" overnight guests, or "not so serious relationships" I think you really need to talk frankly with your tenant about the situation. And the limitations that come with renting and see how it goes. She may understand your rules or she may choose to break them. If you have a real talk with her you should get a good idea of how it will play out and hopefully you can make a good decision for your self. Anyone over the age of 18 staying/living in my properties must be screened and meet my rental standards. Remember, it's your property and you most likely worked really hard to get it, don't let someone else put that in jeopardy. Good luck!
    2Reply
  • Brigitte Beauchat
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Titusville, PA · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 6 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Max T.:

    What is your goal?

     First, I would like to keep my tenant. But more importantly I would like to stick to the lease I have in order to avoid trouble in the future. Since you are from PA, I assume you are familiar with the law and that it tends to favor the tenant as opposed to the landlord. I'm not unwillingly to bend the rules but I don't want to get into a situation where I'm stuck with a tenant I never agreed to in the first place. 

    Could I be looking at this too black and white? Do I need to be more flexible with my lease going forward?

    0Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Do not second guess your lease.

    Same lease language M2M to test the waters as opposed to compromising your standards or having to non renewing.

    0Reply
  • Brigitte Beauchat
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Titusville, PA · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 6 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Mike Koprowski:

    My lease states "a guest staying any more than 7 days" I think 2 weeks is too long and bad habits may start to form.
    Do you pay any utilities for the tenant? Electricity? Water/sewer? Will a long term guest have any affect your bottom line? If so that's a problem.
    Also, what if this goes unchecked and he becomes a "permanent" guest... then your leased tenant decides to move out in the middle of the night...but he decides to stay and not pay....that's also a problem, the scenarios are endless.

    Now, I totally get that as young adults you need to have your freedom to have "one night" overnight guests, or "not so serious relationships" I think you really need to talk frankly with your tenant about the situation. And the limitations that come with renting and see how it goes. She may understand your rules or she may choose to break them.

    If you have a real talk with her you should get a good idea of how it will play out and hopefully you can make a good decision for your self.

    Anyone over the age of 18 staying/living in my properties must be screened and meet my rental standards.

    Remember, it's your property and you most likely worked really hard to get it, don't let someone else put that in jeopardy.

    Good luck!

      Thank you for your reply! I think I am trying to approach the situation in a similar manor as you do with your tenants. I don't want to stray from the lease because if I am lenient in some areas, it will be expected in all areas. My tenant DID NOT react well to the initial conversation, I'm hoping she will respond better if I explain WHY these policies are in place. 

    0Reply
  • Jordan MoorheadBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @Brigitte Beauchat I would keep her if shes good. Boyfriends are tough and he could be there a lot and not actually "live" there. Just follow your procedures though and make sure everything is legal. I think having him sign a document saying he doesn't live there will show her that you're serious.

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    1Reply
  • Brigitte Beauchat
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Titusville, PA · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 6 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Dawn Brenengen:

    @Brigitte Beauchat I would put yourself in her shoes for a moment.  She may be into this guy, but that doesn't mean she wants to have a legal document binding herself with him in a living situation.  I think your plan #2 of having him sign that he is NOT a tenant is better, but I don't really see why you need that necessarily.  Honestly, if she's a great tenant, then I'm not really sure that I would worry about her boyfriend spending the night there.  Do you suspect that he's living there or do you think he's just there a lot?  On our standard leases we have a place to list "additional occupants," so if I really wanted to be by the letter, I would list his name there.

     Thank you for your reply. I will consider the additional occupant option. I do not think he is living there full time but I do think he is there for longer than my lease allows (which is 14 days).

    0Reply
  • Joe Scaparra
    Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 680 posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    I personally don't put boyfriend and girlfriends on the lease together.  I might put them on as an additional tenant but I have made the mistake of putting both on together only to get a call from the boyfriend asking me to tell his girlfriend to leave.  Lover's quarrel.  The boyfriend was making the payments so he thought he had legal authority.  I was getting pulled into their issues.  Had I put the more responsible person on the lease as the tenant then he might have had the authority to tell his girlfriend to take a hike.  

    I would try and cut down the visitation time to 10 days or less.  I would insist on a  background check with fees be conducted.  I would make sure I have all authorized vehicle information and let her know that she cannot store other vehicles on your property.  Vehicle seen on property longer than the 10 day visitation time would be subject to towing.  

    I too would not insist she put her boyfriend on as a tenant, but for the safety of the neighborhood you have to perform required criminal background.  If she doesn't agree then you have to give her walking papers.

    2Reply
  • Chris Purcell
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2010 · 739 posts · 372 votes
    9y

    @Brigitte Beauchat

    Does she pay on time?  Is the house in good shape?   Are they quiet?

    Why do you care???

    5Reply
  • Isiah Ferguson
    Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2017 · 321 posts · 157 votes
    9y

    Put yourself in her shoes. I think you don't always have to go by the book. I understand this is a business 1st but sometimes' you have to treat people, how you will want to be treated either way. I say follow your gut feeling. If she's a good tenant really consider this because there are horrible tenants out there, I've heard horror stories about tenants. This situation doesn't seem too bad.  

    1Reply
  • Lesley Resnick
    Real Estate Agent · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    I am not sure this is the best use of your time.  If he visits and exceeds the lease, are you damaged in some way?  Putting him on the lease is getting int he middle of their relationship and that is not a good place for you to be.  If she pays on time and does not damage the house, the let it go.  

    5Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    The quality of a tenant should have no bering on whether you inforce your lease or not.

    If you do not intend to enforce any article of your lease it should be removed. Not enforcing a lease makes it, or that part, null and void.  If you expect your tenants to respect their lease you are obligated to do the same. 

    Inforce the lease or rewrite the lease.

    1Reply
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