Unapproved Pet - Not on Lease

Unapproved Pet - Not on Lease

New to Real Estate · Coppell, TX · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 3 votes

Hello BP! We are managing our first rental property and have come across a concern with pets at the property. 

We approved 1 dog (specifically identified on the lease) for the tenants. We recently learned that they took in a cat and did not volunteer that information to us. At this point, it is considered against our policy of no cats and no unapproved animals, in addition to a breach of lease.

The tenant is offering to pay an additional pet fee, as well as additional rent to cover the animals. But our concern is the damage the cat has potentially done or will do to the home (flooring, smell, etc.). The fee and rent may not cover the cost of floor replacement or other damage that may occur. The flooring is all luxury vinyl plank, which was installed prior to the tenant moving in. While this flooring is water proof, we are still concerned about the cat urine getting into the seams and baseboards.

Our question then is whether we should take the additional fee ($400) and rent ($25/month), or stick with our policy and communicate that they must remove the pet from the property within a stated timeframe.

Any advice or lessons learned would be greatly appreciated!

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John UnderwoodPro Member
Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
8y

@Kyle Burrows I am not a cat person either but I don't think they necessarily urinate over everything and destroy a house. I imagine that a trained cat would be no trouble at all. That said I would schedule an inspection to see if there is an issue. If you find a problem then you can resort to asking them to remove the cat an pay for any deodorizing or other remediation.  If you find no issues then you can charge the extra fees same as you did for the approved dog.

I also eliminate carpet and allow pets and so far have never had any pet damage. I charge a $300 pet fee (not a refundable pet deposit) and I do not charge any additional monthly rent for pets.

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  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    8y

    @Kyle Burrows I am not a cat person either but I don't think they necessarily urinate over everything and destroy a house. I imagine that a trained cat would be no trouble at all. That said I would schedule an inspection to see if there is an issue. If you find a problem then you can resort to asking them to remove the cat an pay for any deodorizing or other remediation.  If you find no issues then you can charge the extra fees same as you did for the approved dog.

    I also eliminate carpet and allow pets and so far have never had any pet damage. I charge a $300 pet fee (not a refundable pet deposit) and I do not charge any additional monthly rent for pets.

  • Rental Property Investor · Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 30 posts · 19 votes
    8y

    @John Underwood has probably given you the best answer you are going to get. 

    Do a short five-minute walk through once every three or four months. You will, or will not, smell that scent you are worried about. Plus you will be able to keep an eye on the baseboards and seams that you are worried about. If your tenants' pets are manageable, they shouldn't have an issue agreeing to let you in for five minutes once every few months.

    Don't get me wrong; at home, I love my dogs more than anything, but pets in rentals are a no go for me. Liability, peace of mind, preservation of a normal scent, and flooring are not worth that $200 - $400 initial fee and very small additional rental income. Keep in mind that in an unfortunate situation where that dog bites someone walking by (or a similar situation.) People will be told to go where the money is, and in this situation, we as landlords are where the money is. 

  • Software Developer · Vidor, TX · Member since 2015 · 922 posts · 639 votes
    8y

    If your policy was explained and they knew no cats were allowed, tell them to get the cat out.  Hopefully you had a hefty daily penalty for every day the unauthorized pet is in the home, in the lease language.

    Put your foot down, tell them to get rid of the cat and that they knew the rules when signing the dotted line.

    Justin 

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    8y

    You have basically two options. First rewrite your lease regarding not allowing cats and then allow cats in your units/charge the fees.

    Second option would be to inforce your lease as written.

    Landlords should not be including any language in a lease that you do not intend to inforce. Any article not enforced becomes null and void for any present and/or future tenants. IF you allow one tennat to have a cat you must allow all present and future tenants to have cats. You can not have it both ways. Make a business decision and stick to it.

    You need to take the time to review your lease and remove all articles you have no intention of enforcing.

  • Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 280 posts · 176 votes
    8y

    @Kyle Burrows are you really going to let the tenants control the negotiations here by offering $400/$25? Ultimately, it's up to you. Personally, I would advise them that they are in breach of the contract and the decision is not up to me - it's up the the lease (which is the legal document here) - and so they need to become compliant to the lease terms. 

    Truth is, they tried to get one over on you. They didn't forget to tell you - they knew that this would be an issue and hid it from you as long as they probably could. If they had any respect for you then they would have called you first to discuss everything BEFORE buying the cat. 

    Just a thought, but in the future, perhaps you can have language in the lease regarding what happens if the terms are breached. For example, maybe if this situation happens again the term lease converts to month to month and the rent increases by 15%. Just a thought. 

  • Penny ClarkPro Member
    Sacramento, CA · Member since 2014 · 513 posts · 319 votes
    8y

    @kyle burrows, yes you can allow the cat with an additional deposit (for a cat I would require a deposit of no less than $750) or issue a 3 Day Cure or  Quit for them to get rid of the cat. The more important issue here however is they ignored the terms of the lease on this matter and they may take the opportunity to push the boundaries on other terms if you give in. I agree with the others who said you need to set a precedent so other terms will not be violated. 

    Good luck on your decision.

  • Ned J.Pro Member
    Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    I would enforce the lease that is in place now..... purely due to the fact that they lied and broke it already. You can either show them that you don't mess around with how you run things, or you can let them bend the rules and be prepared to have them know that you are soft and wont stand up to them on future issues/concerns.

    If a tenant comes to me BEFORE they want to do something, I'm much more lenient on considering it.....lie to me, go behind my back and have me catch you, then prepare to suffer the consequence.

    If you want to allow cats, that's fine......but letting them get away with this is setting a bad precedent. This is a little test to see if you have a spine or not

  • Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    You have basically two options. First rewrite your lease regarding not allowing cats and then allow cats in your units/charge the fees.

    Second option would be to inforce your lease as written.

    Landlords should not be including any language in a lease that you do not intend to inforce. Any article not enforced becomes null and void for any present and/or future tenants. IF you allow one tennat to have a cat you must allow all present and future tenants to have cats. You can not have it both ways. Make a business decision and stick to it.

    You need to take the time to review your lease and remove all articles you have no intention of enforcing.

    Absolutely None of this is  good advice. 

    First of all leases articulate rights and obligations. You are not required to enforce your rights.

    Secondly you are not obliged to have a universal pet policy across all your buildings. Where it would be a problem is if you allowed some applicants pets but not others FOR THE SAME property.

    Finally the priority of a first time single property landlord is to keep the rent coming in, not playing hardball over an extra pet in a rental.

  • Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Kyle Burrows:

    Hello BP! We are managing our first rental property and have come across a concern with pets at the property. 

    We approved 1 dog (specifically identified on the lease) for the tenants. We recently learned that they took in a cat and did not volunteer that information to us. At this point, it is considered against our policy of no cats and no unapproved animals, in addition to a breach of lease.

    The tenant is offering to pay an additional pet fee, as well as additional rent to cover the animals. But our concern is the damage the cat has potentially done or will do to the home (flooring, smell, etc.). The fee and rent may not cover the cost of floor replacement or other damage that may occur. The flooring is all luxury vinyl plank, which was installed prior to the tenant moving in. While this flooring is water proof, we are still concerned about the cat urine getting into the seams and baseboards.

    Our question then is whether we should take the additional fee ($400) and rent ($25/month), or stick with our policy and communicate that they must remove the pet from the property within a stated timeframe.

    Any advice or lessons learned would be greatly appreciated!

    So if they call your bluff and decline  to remove the pet  what are you going to do.

  • Rental Property Investor · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 257 posts · 130 votes
    8y

    Either make the increases in rent match the potential damage or have them get rid of the cat. I would say, additional $1000 security deposit, $50/month increase in rent. 

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    8y

    @Kyle Burrows and @John Underwood my sister is a cat person and after having one cat for several years, all the sudden it started peeing on the couch and bed. Clearly it was out of anger over them being gone more often. I have a friend down the road that had the same thing, cat started peeing on furniture. Both their houses smell like cat pee so who knows where else the cats peed. Here is the thing. Both households make over $200K per year and they live in $400K+ homes that they own. Imagine if a tenant was faced with the same problem how little they would care.

    Cat pee is the worst and is a league above dog pee. They will even spray the walls. Even vinyl or some other type of water proof flooring will get destroyed. Water proof is not the same as odor proof.

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    8y

    Not much to add on enforcement advice as all are good points above.

    What wasn't mentioned is whether the cat is fixed or not?  Or a male or female? It's the un-fixed males that spray everywhere.    

    Not giving us enough info to help make a good cost/benefit analysis for you.  

    I wouldn't accept an un-fixed male for less than $10,000.  It's that critical to know.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    8y

    "not playing hardball over an extra pet in a rental"

    Enforcing a lease agreement is not hard ball. I would simply refer to it as operating your business.

    I understand that you operate a business where you allow your tenants to run roughshod over your business and property however most landlords are considerably more responsible.

    I understand your lease only consists of  one article ...rent is due in the amount of $XXX, however most landlords include additional language they expect tenants to respect and when they do not the landlord will enforce their lease.

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    You have basically two options. First rewrite your lease regarding not allowing cats and then allow cats in your units/charge the fees.

    Second option would be to inforce your lease as written.

    Landlords should not be including any language in a lease that you do not intend to inforce. Any article not enforced becomes null and void for any present and/or future tenants. IF you allow one tennat to have a cat you must allow all present and future tenants to have cats. You can not have it both ways. Make a business decision and stick to it.

    You need to take the time to review your lease and remove all articles you have no intention of enforcing.

    Absolutely None of this is  good advice. 

    First of all leases articulate rights and obligations. You are not required to enforce your rights.

    Secondly you are not obliged to have a universal pet policy across all your buildings. Where it would be a problem is if you allowed some applicants pets but not others FOR THE SAME property.

    Finally the priority of a first time single property landlord is to keep the rent coming in, not playing hardball over an extra pet in a rental.

    You are required to enforce your lease if you want it to hold up in court. You can't let one extra pet slide, then when another one comes in, cry foul. Not all battles are worth fighting if it is something minor, but pets are hardly minor. Any landlord who has been in this business a few years has learned the hard way exactly what damage a pet can do. I would rather have a property sit vacant that deal with cat pee. Just speaking from experience and trying to save new landlords from learning lessons the hard way.

    IF they allow the pet to stay, it should only be done with a lease addendum. 

  • Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Regarding Whether future lease clauses on pets can be enforced on one set of tenants if not enforced on another: how would other tenants and judges even know what has transpired with other tenants pet lease clauses? This seems like pretty specious reasoning
  • Investor · Cleveland, TN · Member since 2016 · 279 posts · 187 votes
    8y

    I would agree with @Thomas S. The best way to avoid lawsuits is to treat everyone exactly the same. If you make an allowance for this tenant and later refuse to for another tenant, you are asking for a lawsuit. Lookup the term "discovery" if you're wondering how the judge/tenant/lawyers will find out about it. As a business you *should* have records. How would you explain this, in the very unlikely event, that you end up in court? I realize that being sued isn't that likely, until it happens...

  • New to Real Estate · Coppell, TX · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 3 votes
    8y

    Thanks everyone for your information, it's been helpful to get different perspectives! We are going to enforce our lease and policy, rather than collect extra fees. And ensure we include more specific details in our leases going forward.

    Thanks BP!

  • Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
    Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    You have basically two options. First rewrite your lease regarding not allowing cats and then allow cats in your units/charge the fees.

    Second option would be to inforce your lease as written.

    Landlords should not be including any language in a lease that you do not intend to inforce. Any article not enforced becomes null and void for any present and/or future tenants. IF you allow one tennat to have a cat you must allow all present and future tenants to have cats. You can not have it both ways. Make a business decision and stick to it.

    You need to take the time to review your lease and remove all articles you have no intention of enforcing.

    Absolutely None of this is  good advice. 

    First of all leases articulate rights and obligations. You are not required to enforce your rights.

    Secondly you are not obliged to have a universal pet policy across all your buildings. Where it would be a problem is if you allowed some applicants pets but not others FOR THE SAME property.

    Finally the priority of a first time single property landlord is to keep the rent coming in, not playing hardball over an extra pet in a rental.

    You are required to enforce your lease if you want it to hold up in court.  

    That's a complete myth.

    A lease is a contract so the law of contract applies. If it were true then it would apply to other contracts. Which means that an employee could argue that his employer can not fire him because he did not enforce his contractual right to terminate him the last time he committed a fireable offence.

  • Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    "not playing hardball over an extra pet in a rental"

    Enforcing a lease agreement is not hard ball. I would simply refer to it as operating your business.

    Let's look for a minute at the reverse of your argument so it can be exposed for the fallacy that it is. 

    Suppose the heating system breaks down in winter and the tenant is planning on going on vacation anyway and so does not enforce his right in the lease to a timely repair.

    Under your interpretation that  means he is no longer allowed to enforce that right then next time the heating breaks down, but no sensible landlord would ever reach that conclusion.

    See you don't understand what a contract is for. It's not there to tell you how to run your business, it's there to set out the rights and obligations of the parties. It helps to know the difference.

  • Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Richard Elvin if your trying to convince me that they are going to do discovery and in turn subpoena former and current tenants for a podunk pet clause lease issue, that would certainly be adjudicated , if at all, in small claims court I would suggest you’ve been watching to much CSI Miami and Judge Judy.
  • Investor · Cleveland, TN · Member since 2016 · 279 posts · 187 votes
    8y

    @Steve B. I don't actually watch either. I have, however, been to small claims court. :)

  • Investor · Cleveland, TN · Member since 2016 · 279 posts · 187 votes
    8y

    And won, just in case anyone cares.

  • Real Estate Agent · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2015 · 252 posts · 132 votes
    8y

    Bottom line....and just my two cents....if you are that worried about a cat then maybe being a landlord isn't for you.  Possibly flipping or wholesaling or something else.

    How long have they been tenants?

    How much revenue will you lose if you throw them out?

    Are you going to take them to court?  Seriously?

    Dogs do much, much more damage than a cat.

    How did you find out about the cat? How often were you observing the property to know about it?  Do you make "surprise" visits?

    What is "luxury" vinyl?  I've never heard of such a thing.

    If a cat can do more damage than the fee and rent combined then I want to meet that cat.  It also means you've put WAY too much money into flooring.

    What if they challenge you and take you to court and say they cat isn't theirs and they were just watching a friend's cat?  How could you prove them wrong?

    @Kyle Burrows

  • Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Richard Elvin:

    And won, just in case anyone cares.

    No we don't .

    Judges are more likely to  whatever the heck they like when the cameras aren't rolling, so if you are reaching those sorts of conclusions maybe you should watch some more Judge Judy.

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    8y

    @Ihe O. if you don't care, why are you following the thread and posting on it? Stop trolling and move on.

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