Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
In a bit of a complicated situation..
When I bought the place it was sold as-is. Since the current tenant in place is a realtor, she was aware of what that entails. Upon signing a 3 month lease they mentioned the washer and dryer being theirs, so i removed the washer and dryer addendum from the lease. Come to find out, it was the sellers.
The tenants received a notice of non-renewal a while back, and are scheduled to be out by the 6th.
Now what do I do? Do I have any recourse in this situation? Do I just let them go and be done with it without stirring up the pot?
Real Estate Investor · Plumas county, CA · Member since 2011 · 150 posts · 88 votes
7y
I would let this one go....Its probably not worth your time to try to prove anything in small claims court. From now on dont supply a washer/dryer.
I should add that the one time I did supply them for a tenant they were a 'gift' from a friend trying to clean out a storage unit. I provided them as a 'courtesy' for that one tenant and specified that I would not repair them if needed. Two years later they did need repairs and tenant decided to junk them and buy her own.
Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
To avoid this mistake again, ALWAYS use an estoppel agreement for all inherited tenants, where both the tenant and seller sign, prior to closing. This would have established, among other things, which appliances were owned by whom.
Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
Just consider it a $600-$700 learning lesson and move on. Especially since you didn't renew their lease they are not going to be willing to play ball on something like this.
Real Estate Agent · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 167 posts · 89 votes
7y
Absolutely NOTHING about how you bought the house, how it was listed, what your sales contract stated, etc. has ANYTHING to do with a tenant stealing your stuff. Period.
Your deal with the seller has zero influence on your lease with your tenants. Two separate agreements.
Of course, since you voided the washer/dryer portion of the lease, the tenants could argue the W&D were theirs and that's why it's voided... and that would likely hold up as rather strong proof.
Rental Property Investor · Amityville, NY · Member since 2018 · 351 posts · 441 votes
7y
@Dave Passey
I cant agree with this way of thinking.
What difference does it make that he was ok buying new ones when he thought these didnt belong to him? If the machines belong to the landlord and property then thats where they should stay. It doesn't give the tenant the right to take it with them.
It's either his or theirs, pretty cut and dry. IF he can save a couple hundred dollars by claiming what's his then better for him and his business.
Rental Property Investor · Westport, CT · Member since 2017 · 176 posts · 183 votes
7y
@Brian Ellis
In my mind the washer and dryer still belong to the seller. Can you contact the seller and offer them $200 for the washer and dryer? That gives you the upper hand and the ability to involve police if they are taken.
Rental Property Investor · Ocala, FL · Member since 2011 · 49 posts · 19 votes
7y
What type of rental is this.....meaning nicer place or smaller 2/1...this has been mentioned but I find it best not to supply a washer and drying....another thing to go wrong.....most tenants who you want have purchased a washer and drying and will be bringing them.....
Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 388 posts · 563 votes
7y
@Brian Ellis - you're getting lucky on this one. In my experience, if you provide a washer/dryer, you're also required to service them, and that is usually a hassle. If you only provide a W/D hookup, then any issues with the W/D are on the future tenant who will bring in their own equipment(and thus be required to service it.)
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
7y
@Brian Ellis if there is a washer and dryer in a property when I purchase, the first thing I do is sell them on Craigslist.
You may think a 3 year old appliance will last years, but they will break quickly between wear and misuse. Then you are stuck paying for repairs. Not only is the cost of repairs a drain, but your time coordinating repairs. Two less appliances to be responsible for is a good thing.
@Sam Shueh the lease stated “Lessee May use existing washer and dryer for lessee own use, provided that lessee shall be solely responsible for repair and maintaining such washer and dryer”. But was revised prior to signing, that “lessee provide own washer and dryer”, since I was told by them it wasn’t the sellers. I don’t plan to go back on my mistake, or get the seller involved since they didn’t want to be involved from the start. My gut tells me to just move on and learn from this. But I’m getting mixed feedback, and would want to do exactly what successful investors here would do. I plan to stay in this for the long haul.
I like the suggestion about telling the Tenant you found out the W/D was the Sellers, and therefore now yours, and waiting to see how the Tenant responds......EXCEPT......After reading your response above, I believe that you do not have the ability to make claims of ownership to the W/D.
If you ammended your lease to state that the Tenant will furnish their own, then you have already determined through the lease who owns the W/D. If you go back on the lease now, they will have cause against you in court if they challenge it. The burden of proof will be on you at that point. You have nothing, and they have a lease that says that they have provided their own units.
I think your only option is to tell them you know they belong to the previous Seller, but then if they refuse, you have to cut bait on the units. Lesson learned.
Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Joe Splitrock the rentals im offering for rent are in a B neighborhood. About 1% of the neighborhood is multiple-occupancy. So its a nice area. My original lease stated Lessor provide washer and dryer with Lessee responsible for any repairs/service costs. If I were to get whatever life I could out of them, it would be worth it. I think in the future I will just add w/d hookups available, and not provide them. Like you said another headache. I have enough of those going on right now!
Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Chris Welch its a duplex both consisting 1/1. Smaller units, but very nice and private in a B neighborhood. One of the problems is getting market rent for them, its a small audience that can afford it. I figured adding a washer and dryer would be more appealing. As long as I state the lessee is responsible for repairs on the lease. But that's a big expense over time if they break every couple years.
@Dave Passey you are spot on, I didn’t care before until a neighbor brought it to my attention. I think it’s more of being deceived that aggravated me. Id basically be causing more problems if i brought it up and made a fuss about it. It will be a blank slate when the next person moves in.
I would just flat out tell the tenants it wasnt theirs, and you expect it to be there. I'd say it a little nicer, ie that you found out it came with the house etc.
If they take it, probably not a ton you can do. I dont think I would take them to court or file a police report or anything, because end of the day, the tenant does have a record of you modifying the lease.
If they do take the washer and dryer....I would pull out a fine tooth comb with pictures of every little thing that was damaged. Paint chips floor scuffs, dirt. Everything. I'd find every bit of damage and withhold as much of the deposit as legally possible.
Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Bart H. Im not the spiteful type, I have no problem being strict, but id treat it as I would any other tenant, whether they are being dishonest about the washer and dryer or not. Id expect normal wear and tear, anything beyond that will be handled accordingly.
In this situation I did not require a security deposit, just first months rent. Getting rent was critical to pay off the first few months of the mortgage (as I fixed up the other side), they didn't have a security deposit at the time. So I gave a 3 month lease. I was respectful regardless of the multiple lease breaches, but they still paid on time each month, and kept the place clean. When the time came I served a notice of non-renewal and explained my reasoning and the lease breaches. So far the move is going along smoothly, the more I read peoples responses, the more I think its best to just let go.
@Bart H. Im not the spiteful type, I have no problem being strict, but id treat it as I would any other tenant, whether they are being dishonest about the washer and dryer or not. Id expect normal wear and tear, anything beyond that will be handled accordingly.
In this situation I did not require a security deposit, just first months rent. Getting rent was critical to pay off the first few months of the mortgage (as I fixed up the other side), they didn't have a security deposit at the time. So I gave a 3 month lease. I was respectful regardless of the multiple lease breaches, but they still paid on time each month, and kept the place clean. When the time came I served a notice of non-renewal and explained my reasoning and the lease breaches. So far the move is going along smoothly, the more I read peoples responses, the more I think its best to just let go.
I am not so much talking about being spiteful. But at the same time, you feel like they were dishonest with you. I would be more inclined to be strict and by the book.
Let me give you an example, we had a group of tenants who paid on time for a full years lease. They gave proper notification per terms of the lease that they were moving out . They also were helpful in letting us show the property and we got it leased with 0 days of vacancy.
AND they let us get in a couple of days early to do some painting and other make ready things while the lease was still in effect.
You bet your bottom dollar when I did their walk thru and found a few things, nicks in the drywall, damage from a piece of furniture on a wall etc. a couple of blinds were slightly damaged and kind of mangy. We ate the cost.
Yes there is wear and tear, but there is also a fine line between wear and tear and damage. Someone who is deceitful about a washer and dryer wont get the benefit of the doubt from us.
Rental Property Investor · Port Washington, NY · Member since 2018 · 1 post · 2 votes
7y
I would call the tenant/real estate agent and have a calm business chat about reputation & integrity. Did this agent sell you the propert & thereby make a commission? Does this agent want to work with you in the future? Is this agent interested in your referrals? How can you possibly tell their new landlord they were good tenants? It’s not easy to have these conversations, but I no longer let my tenants walk all over me. Keep us posted on results! -Michelle
Investor · Missoula, MT · Member since 2015 · 242 posts · 177 votes
7y
@Erik Baumer
I absolutely hear what you are saying and agree with you. He equipment should stay with the house. It just seems like it is going to turn into a he said she said thing. All he has in hearsay that it should be his. It seems like it would be a losing battle over a couple hundred dollars. How much time is it going to take to get them if the tenant doesn’t leave them? The most I would pursue it is telling the tenants to leave them because I found out they were owned by the previous landlord. Other than that, it wouldn’t be worth my time.
Property Manager · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2018 · 514 posts · 470 votes
7y
@Brian Ellis Have you ever had to repair the washer/dryer? I would be pretty pissed if my tenants were trying to steal my appliances. I would notify them that reviewing the documents, you see the washer/dryer belonged to the seller and not them. If they take it, you will remove the cost to replace them from the security deposit. I doubt they will bother taking it after that. Good luck!
Investor · Jonesboro, AR · Member since 2017 · 136 posts · 79 votes
7y
@Brian Ellis
Back when I was on my game I had the serial numbers written on the lease. I used that to file a police report I know at least once. However sounds like they got one over on you. You. An try to to strong arm them. Send them a letter saying your gonna file a police report of it’s not back in 24 hours. And that you have the vin numbers. Other than that you don’t have a dog in this fight.
Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Lindel Turner you are correct, nothing I can prove, just the sellers word. I gave them a notice of non-renewal a ways back, and they are scheduled to be out today. Stopped by last night and the place is almost cleaned up. I’m just glad it went smooth, so the next tenant can get in there Friday. I realized from the responses here, that it would be dumb to jeopardize this whole process from running smoothly.
Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Bart H. I appreciate the feedback. First tenants, first house, first notice of non-renewal. I’m learning that I have to be more strict from the start. Nip it in the butt as soon as something comes up.
Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2017 · 199 posts · 253 votes
7y
let them go. For a reason that is not as obvious. When you rent to the next tenants you do not want a washer and a dryer there as you will be responsible for the maintenance and they will break quicker than other appliances. Let them take their headaches with them.
Madisonville, LA · Member since 2018 · 125 posts · 71 votes
7y
@Brian Ellis
It's taken me some time to learn that as well. Many ppl are far more unreasonable than I expected and will take advantage wherever they can. It's not my personality to be overbearing but I've found I have to show some rigidness or will get taken advantage of