How do I handle this tenant dispute?

How do I handle this tenant dispute?

Cushing, ME · Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 2 votes

I have two tenants living side by side in a triplex  who are at each others throats and they are relying on me to settle the dispute.  I just acquired this property two months ago and it's my first time being a landlord.  I'm not entirely sure how to best handle this.

 Allegedly the children of one unit are bullying the children in another unit and their parents are self disciplining the other units children.  As you can imagine this has led to some pretty upset parents, and it's hard for me to determine who is actually more in the wrong and what to do about it.  It's sort of a he said she said where both tenants are from what I have been told, going out of their way to annoy the other tenant.  From parking in an annoying manner to use up extra spaces(I have no parking lines in the dirt parking lot) to banging on the walls of their neighbors to yelling at each other outside.  

I don't want to get in the habit of micromanaging tenants personal issues, but at the same time I want to provide a safe welcoming place for people to live.  Banging on walls, verbal abuse, and improper parking in an already small parking lot isn't something that I want to set a precedent of being ok to do. So, how would you handle this?  3 strikes you're out? Ask for video evidence of alleged banging on walls? How do you cut through the he said she said to find out who is actually at fault?

Things to keep in mind. This is winter in Maine, painting parking lines in a snowy parking lot is out.  Doing an eviction this time of year may be necessary but only as a last resort.  The PO had leases that rollover in the summer, I acknowledged that I would honor those leases but have not had anyone sign new leases, so basically everyone is month to month at the moment. 

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
7y

Send them each a notice:

Pretty simple.

The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
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  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y

    Give both of them 30 day notices . The drama wont ever end .

  • Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    You are the landlord, not the social worker.  Tell them you are confident that each has the ability to live peaceably and not infringe on the quiet enjoyment of their neighbors.  Tell each tenant if there is an issue, to call the police.  End the discussion with "if I have to get involved, it wouldn't be good for anybody." This last phrase, depending exactly how you deliver it, we convey all kinds of subcommunication to your tenants.

    This is another good reason to use M2M leases.  It is much easier to remove someone that doesn't fit in. 

  • Yarmouth, ME · Member since 2015 · 57 posts · 25 votes
    7y

    Agree with above. The drama will never end. Give them both notices. 

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    7y

    Send them each a notice:

    Pretty simple.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    To clarify one point, the existing leases survive the sale. They are not MTM tenants and if you want them out they have to agree to break the lease or you have to evict.

    Post notices for 5/7 day cure or quit. Basically you tell them to cut out the antics or they are evicted. As much as you don't want to evict them in winter, I'd hope they doubly don't want to be evicted in winter....

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    7y

    As they are both month to month, I agree with what the others said about sending a letter saying if they can't get along they won't like the options.  

    It shouldn't be hard for the adults to act like adults and simply avoid each other.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    7y

    In most situations tenant squabbles are not a landlords responsibility to resolve. This is one of those situations. I would send a letter to both suggesting that they either move or grow up. Make it very clear it is not your responsibility to resolve personal disputes. One will eventually move.

    This is why I only use M2M leases and never rent to young families.

  • Rental Property Investor · Memphis area · Member since 2018 · 103 posts · 51 votes
    7y

    put up steel posts to seperate the parking spaces.

  • Developer · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Nicholas Olson:

    I have two tenants living side by side in a triplex  who are at each others throats and they are relying on me to settle the dispute.  I just acquired this property two months ago and it's my first time being a landlord.  I'm not entirely sure how to best handle this.

     Allegedly the children of one unit are bullying the children in another unit and their parents are self disciplining the other units children.  As you can imagine this has led to some pretty upset parents, and it's hard for me to determine who is actually more in the wrong and what to do about it.  It's sort of a he said she said where both tenants are from what I have been told, going out of their way to annoy the other tenant.  From parking in an annoying manner to use up extra spaces(I have no parking lines in the dirt parking lot) to banging on the walls of their neighbors to yelling at each other outside.  

    I don't want to get in the habit of micromanaging tenants personal issues, but at the same time I want to provide a safe welcoming place for people to live.  Banging on walls, verbal abuse, and improper parking in an already small parking lot isn't something that I want to set a precedent of being ok to do. So, how would you handle this?  3 strikes you're out? Ask for video evidence of alleged banging on walls? How do you cut through the he said she said to find out who is actually at fault?

    Things to keep in mind. This is winter in Maine, painting parking lines in a snowy parking lot is out.  Doing an eviction this time of year may be necessary but only as a last resort.  The PO had leases that rollover in the summer, I acknowledged that I would honor those leases but have not had anyone sign new leases, so basically everyone is month to month at the moment. 

     Tell each one that if the other tenant is banging on the walls or causing them trouble call the police. Have the police settle the issue for them. Tell them that they can send the other tenant to JAIL if the other tenant gives them trouble. The threat of jail time could hopefully pacify them.

    If NOT, if on your lease you have a domestic disturbance clause and gives you the right to evict, then by all means evict after the police notifies you.

  • Cushing, ME · Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    Thanks for all the responses.  I think the consensus is that it's not my responsibility to handle squabbles.  I agree but I'm also curious how people feel about banging on the walls and parking all over the place.  I feel like to a certain point this is my responsibility to enforce.  I'm just a little foggy on how to do so. I like the idea of installing posts in the ground for parking.  As for banging on the walls and creating a disturbance, is this something that most landlords refer to the police?

    @Matt Devincenzo  Maybe the laws are different here or maybe I'm ill informed.  My legal counsel claims that prior leases are between two parties, the PO and the tenants, I am neither.  The one exception is if the leases were recorded at the courthouse but to my knowledge that never happened. 

  • Coventry, RI · Member since 2018 · 73 posts · 39 votes
    7y

    Painting lines on a dirt lot where it snows quite a bit won't work.  But maybe you could divide it by anchoring 4X4's to ground or some sort of raised markers on the edge of the lot.  While tenant disputes with each other are not your problem, dividing the parking up may make everyone's life easier even with new tenants in the future.

  • Realtor · PInellas County Largo, FL · Member since 2016 · 902 posts · 810 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Nicholas Olson:

    Thanks for all the responses.  I think the consensus is that it's not my responsibility to handle squabbles.  I agree but I'm also curious how people feel about banging on the walls and parking all over the place.  I feel like to a certain point this is my responsibility to enforce.  I'm just a little foggy on how to do so. I like the idea of installing posts in the ground for parking.  As for banging on the walls and creating a disturbance, is this something that most landlords refer to the police?

    @Matt Devincenzo  Maybe the laws are different here or maybe I'm ill informed.  My legal counsel claims that prior leases are between two parties, the PO and the tenants, I am neither.  The one exception is if the leases were recorded at the courthouse but to my knowledge that never happened. 

    As far as I know, in every state, the lease survives the sale.  The new owner must uphold the terms of the lease, which means that the end date doesn't change just because you purchased the house.  You can check the terms of your leases, they might say that the lease is null and void upon sale, but I've never seen that in a residential lease.

    You've got some good scripts in here.  I agree with everyone else, when it comes to tenant drama, I am hands off.  If it doesn't pertain to my duties as outlined in the lease, then I am confident they can handle it like adults.  What would they do if they owned the units individually?  In my orientation speech when I go over the lease I tell them this.  Unfortunately you didn't get the chance to, but you can give them the speech now.

    @Wesley W.@Nathan Gesner have great scripts for this.

  • Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    Unless Maine is different, those leases have to be honored. But like everybody said, this isn't your problem. To the couple of people that said evict them, I'd like to know how? Under what violation? "Not getting along?" "Being a jerk to neighbor?" The OP did not state any laws were violated. 

    If you think you can get a new tenant quickly in winter, you could offer one or both of them to terminate their leases. Otherwise, stay out of it. 

  • Cushing, ME · Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    An attorney I know who is pretty into the real estate game gave me that legal advice.  I tend to believe him but maybe it's not the case.  If prior leases must in fact be honored the PO did have the following clause, "Illegal, unsafe and repeated rude or inconsiderate behavior to residents/tenants by other tenants or their guests can be considered grounds for eviction."  

    One of the tenants called the cops on the other tenant last night but it only resulted in a chat.  I honestly think if I gave either of them the option to break their lease and leave they probably would.  

    I'm unsure of just how this will play out but thank you everyone for all the comments.  It's a lot easier for me to go forward with this situation after hearing your thoughts.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y

    I own a couple triplexes . For me They are the most profitable but also the most headache because you have all these different personalities under one roof sharing walls and ceilings . Having harmony between all tenants in an apartment building is hard to do the more units you have . It is a bad practice to get involved but There are times when you must intervene . This would not be one of them . I’d tell them to simply avoid each other if they can’t get along .

  • Investor · Jasper GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    Time to invoke the "happy clause". Tell them that if they aren't happy they can give you proper notice, pay the rent when due, leave the property broom clean and you will give them a good reference.  If they don't want to leave then they need to work their problems out themselves.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Edison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 753 posts · 565 votes
    7y

    @Nicholas Olson Whenever each lease is up for renewal I would not renew the lease and replace them. Getting rid of one of them will not fix it since the remaining tenant could cause issues with the replacement.

  • Ned J.Pro Member
    Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    Not your problem. If one tenant is banging on the walls, have the other tenant call the cops...file a report. Stay out of it.

    The parking is a separate issue....in the long run it would be a good idea to have a plan to separate them in some way so you pre-emptively deal with future parking disputes. Completing that now wont do a thing about these current tenants, so don't deal with it now.....if you do, it will only look like you are still willing to try and "fix" the current dispute and more accommodations will ensure

    You provide a safe place to live.....that's it....don't like the neighbor? Then move out.....

  • Rental Property Investor · Auburn, ME · Member since 2015 · 236 posts · 140 votes
    7y

    @Nicholas Olson - In Maine if the tenant has a written lease from the previous owner it has to be honored.

    If both pay on time now I would pull the happy clause that @Bob B. mentioned and tough it out till the leases expire and put them on month to month. 

    I had some inherited tenants in one of my Lewiston buildings that did almost this same thing, the prior owner gave all the tenants 6 month leases before she sold the property. They fought over parking, trash cans, the laundry room, hot water (I swear they gave each kid two baths a day lol), and etc etc. I installed another hot water tank, each got a trash can, I assigned spots and said if they were not honored I would only let one car for each apartment in the drive (pretty big driveway could fit 6, 3 unit building).

    I also said if the fighting did not stop I would not renew any leases when the time came. 

    The fighting may of continued, but the calls, texts, emails and complaints about it whenever I went to the property stopped.

    I was never mean about any of this, just polite and firm on the subject. 

    Grats on your first property and soon stuff like this will be second nature for you! Don't take it personally, remember it is a business!

  • Property Manager · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 6 votes
    7y

    @Nicholas Olson I agree with everyone else seems a notice. It's always best to stay out of residences personal issues.

  • Member since 2018 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    @Nicholas Olson Do you have a local or community mediation center? This would be a free to use trained volunteer service that can be used for disputes such as these by referral as long as they tenants are willing participants.

  • Rental Property Investor · Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2018 · 102 posts · 66 votes
    7y

    @Nicholas Olson

    I am a modest size single-family residential investor but I have learned that when there are domestic issues between tenants and/or domestic issues between tenants and neighbors it becomes a lose lose for the landlord.

    I succeeded when I had my issues by having a very hard line about... if there is an issue with legal infractions, please call the police

    if there is an issue with parking please notify the HOA.

    I would encourage you to be apprehensive about personally engaging with these folks too much because then they will both turn on you as if you caused or allowed some issue. Lastly if they are both on month-to-month I would recommend that you notify them both that their leases will not auto renew and that you would gladly renegotiate a new lease for them, a new lease monthly rate, inspect your property do some nice modest but inexpensive upgrades and when you give them the new lease, you can add the language you need to minimize and address these issues and add value for your self.

    I use EZ Landlords for my leases and that language is automatic.

    I won’t tell you my own long story but I will tell you that in the incident I handled it did ultimately lead to eviction and $5000 in expenses between damage and repairs that I did not see till the tenant was out and weeks without rental fees.

    In essence my suggestions take a hard line, get new leases with the right language or get new tenants or ‘E’ all of the above.

    good luck

  • Specialist · Milford, ME · Member since 2016 · 630 posts · 378 votes
    7y

    Look at the wording of leases. Usually there is some wording that would allow you to give written notice of violation. After 3 notices of the same violation you can give 30 day notice. 7 day notice is only for late rent In Maine you don’t want to use 30 day leases as Pine Tree Legal has argued that they are essentially tenants at will. You can go down to 60 day lease without problem. You should include language in your own lease stating that if lease is not renewed tenant may remain on a month to month basis still subject to the terms of the lease.

  • Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2016 · 62 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Michael Ealy In the same way the landlord doesn't need to be a baby sitter, neither do police. This is a civil matter at most. Even if the police did a report, nothing would happen. Reports are often confused with magic pixie dust; people think they solve all of their problems.

    There would have to be probable cause to make an arrest for the loud noise disturbance or the assault on the kids, which isn't going to happen.

    I wouldn't cater to any of these immature adults.

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    I would send the message that you arent getting in the middle of it like others have said.

    For the parking here is a suggestion that wont cause plowing issues. At the edge of the lot drive stakes in at each end. Run a rope between the stakes. Put something on the rope at the end of each space like that orange vinyl flagging tape. Assign spaces. Just a thought. Might be tough driving stakes now though.

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