Do you Ever Feel “ Landlords guilt “ Evicting Someone?

Rental Property Investor · Phila, PA · Member since 2018 · 554 posts · 118 votes

Situation: My Tenant Stopped Paying and has violated my “ rent to own “ agreement. He is 20 days late, total violation, contract is now void. I have to evict as he said “ I do not have any funds to pay that rent “

- I feel as if I have no choice but to evict, can’t pay. Can’t stay. I hate making enemies though, especially because he was a year into the agreement already

- Have you ever evicted someone and felt a sense of Guilt?

- After eviction, have you ever ran into the person? Out in public, etc... just in general.

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Jim K.

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

@Cameron Riley

This may sound self-serving, and perhaps it is, but I have some experience and this is what I think I've learned.

Every society has limits. When members of that society exceeds those limits and harms that society, they come up against some of the institutions that work to bring them back to within those limits or expel them completely.

I don't agree with all the precepts and treatments of the Alcoholics Anonymous program, but there is a psychological concept of "rock bottom" in the program that I do think has a lot of value. According to this theory, addicts can't really commit to getting better until they touch rock bottom in their lives, realize the harm they're doing to themselves and others, and consciously decide that that going on as they have in the past is not an option.

Also in addiction treatment, there is a concept of "enabling." An enabler is a figure in a troubled person's life who enables the addict to continue on in their troubled ways well past the point that they should have seen the error of their ways, shielding them from the full impact and consequences of their behavior. The enabler does this for a variety of reasons, many of them well-meaning.

For me, every eviction I have been involved in has been more than anything else a process of stepping away from enabling and clearing the way to rock bottom for a tenant who needs to seek help or treatment but refuses to do so because they're terrified, they're proud, or they're blind to the consequences of their ways.

You have to decide, as a landlord, if you're dealing with a person who will seize on an opportunity to change their behavior if you give it to them, or whether you're dealing with a person who will not change until they hit rock bottom. If you decide on the latter, you're not doing them any favors standing in their way, and enabling them is ultimately harming them.

An eviction triggers a whole host of social services and safety mechanisms that are there to help the troubled tenant. That notice on the door may be the only way the tenant will ever actually first reach out for help from the people who are there to help them.

Now let's look at this case and what you've told us. Your tenant is 20 days late on the rent and he doesn't have the money to pay. He has been there for a year. How did he end up in this situation? It didn't happen yesterday. It took a series of bad breaks to get where he is, I'm sure, but it also took some bad decisions on his part, and he is responsible for those. If you DON'T evict here, you're offering one of two things -- an opportunity for this person to radically change their behavior or an opportunity to keep on as they have been keeping on.

Which opportunity do you think you're offering? If it's not the first, then you evict. Because ultimately, it's the kindest thing you can do. You evict because that's the only message that will really get through the psychological blinders this guy has been living with. Do it decisively, do it according to the law, give this person every opportunity to get the help he needs to change his life.

I don't feel guilty today about the evictions I have initiated and seen through. I did not make the decision to evict in anger or out of spite, or based on what would financially benefit me the most. I stepped away from enabling an adult not to hit the rock bottom they needed to hit in order to make their decision to change.

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Account Closed
Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Guilty no. Sympathy sure. Always interesting to read the different responses to these sorts of questions.
For me, if I acted on each and every little thing my tenants pulled with an eviction I would never make any money.
In this case, the tenant has made it clear they can no longer afford the unit. What to do is therefore clear. How we behave during these processes defines who we are as human beings. Some are kind. Some are not. To each their own.
I prefer to be kind, for human reasons, and economic ones too. Such an emotional thing, an eviction. I'll bet all that negative energy results in sporadic property damage every so often.
3 Reply
Alissa Engel
Great Falls, MT · Member since 2017 · 97 posts · 172 votes
7y
@Alex Craig
I see the other side of this as a mental health therapist. I see couples that have their kids removed. You’d hope that would be the biggest motivator....to get your kids back.
Many are either homeless, being evicted, or living in squalor. So, a big hurdle to getting kids back is finding safe and adequate housing. I have a list of low income places, instructions for getting section 8, a few LLs who cater to C/D class, programs for downpayment assistance, etc. Lots of options. I do budgeting and teach the Dave Ramsey cash envelope thing, because most have no bank account.
They don’t do it.
It’s insane, but they have a YEAR to find a place; and they don’t do anything. Kids gone for good.
Let’s say you were the landlord getting the excuse every week; and you are “helping them out” temporarily. Sorry, but you are screwed. They won’t get their crap together for their own kids....they definitely don’t care about their LLs mortgage or family.
We have a saying in my field....never work harder for your clients than they are working for themselves.
7 Reply
Taylor Chiu
Real Estate Agent · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2014 · 473 posts · 230 votes
7y
@Cameron Riley
Having evicted a few folks, I can say you will waver in your resolve at times in the eviction process. I never cease to be amazed at the sob stories tenants can come up with when they are on their heels. And despite telling yourself otherwise, some of the stories will get to you and you’ll want to give them a break.
But don’t do it! Keep in mind how mad you will be with yourself if you give them an extra few months only to find yourself back in the same lousy situation, this time with them owing you twice as much.
Are tenant hard luck stories sometimes true? Yes, but those tenants are proactive and will come up with a payment plan and follow it. You can spot the difference pretty early on.
0 Reply
Linda S.
Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
@Cameron Riley,
When there are kids involved, it's harder emotionally, but then I just transfer that sympathy to anger against the parent/tenant.
My favorite quote is "there's always enough time and money for what's important to you." The tenant showed they didn't view me as important, so they made a choice to prioritize say their cell phone, over me. I see it as they chose to be evicted. They made the decision, not me, why should I feel bad about what they picked?
3 Reply
Taylor Roeling
Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2019 · 185 posts · 61 votes
7y
@Cameron Riley Like most people have said, feeling guilt is very common - I mean you're only human! However, you have to think about how your rental properties are your business - it sounds like you've been gracious already and have tried to be understanding which him. Sticking to your policies in your lease are important so you can stay consistent in the future.
0 Reply
Kyler Cook
Rental Property Investor · Kalamazoo, MI · Member since 2018 · 117 posts · 235 votes
7y
@Cameron Riley
At the end of the day your are selling a service. You give me money, I give you a place to stay that’s warm and safe.
In the event you aren’t giving them a warm and safe home for what they are paying would they be cool with it? No. They’re paying X amount and they DESERVE what you agreed upon no questions asked.
It’s the same in reverse. You’re just better off than most of your tenants so you’re having a hard time seeing clearly.
I’m more wealthy than all of the employees that work for the property management company I rent from. I treat all of them with respect and pay my rent three days early. They continually offer my wife and I discounts to keep us because we are their moat responsible tenants. If I came home to roaches and a giant hole in my ceiling they would be meeting a very different version of Kyler Cook three days before rent is due. Right is right is right. If they can’t handle the agreement they entered into they can deal it the consequences.
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Mindy JensenPro Member
BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Mike Cumbie:

Do you feel guilty when:
2) The scout is outside the grocery store asking to buy cookies... and you don't have cash so you have to hit an ATM to get out a $20.00 bill with a $3.00 charge to buy a $4.00 box of cookies??
For the record, most Girl Scouts now take credit cards with no extra charge. (GS Troop Cookie Mom, here.)
[email protected]Podcast Guest on Show #261
9 Reply
Jordan MoorheadBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
Nope. We had an agreement, they broke it.
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1 Reply
Lindel Turner
Investor · Jonesboro, AR · Member since 2017 · 136 posts · 79 votes
7y
@Cameron Riley
Used to a little but usually after I see how much they owe me and how damaged the place was I quit feeling anything. I give people more than one chance. They bank doesn’t give us a break, property tax doesn’t give us a break, so pass it on.
0 Reply
Rob B.
Chicago, IL · Member since 2018 · 546 posts · 227 votes
7y
Evict doesn't mean demean, but at the end of the day, you have a business to run.
0 Reply
Randall Weatherall
Real Estate Agent · Memphis, TN · Member since 2019 · 261 posts · 253 votes
7y
Once you grow your business to the point where you may have them managed professionally, then be sure to automate the evictions system and let them know that up-front. We find it works great here and if they are three weeks late and get a letter in the mail asking them to leave, they pay most of the time and aren't late again. It's a good thing to automate/schedule.
0 Reply
Andrew B.
Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
I think most rational humans would feel sympathy for the person. They are going through an unpleasant situation, and while it may or may not be 100% through their own fault, its still unpleasant and its natural to feel sympathy. However, there is a difference between sympathy and guilt. Sympathy implies I am human and acknowledge your pain. Guilt, means I did something wrong and feel like I am unfairly gaining something. I think you are feeling sympathy toward the tenant, which is entirely normal. It means you are human. however, you must make sure the sympathy does nto drive your decisison making. Decisions should only be made based on business facts.
0 Reply
Darius Kellar
Real Estate Coach · Member since 2018 · 246 posts · 216 votes
7y
@Cameron Riley Majority of the time when people don't pay is because they are bad with money. I had a tenant that bought a new car, and phone and decided to barely pay the rent. I think the priority should have been the rent not the car and phone .
1 Reply
Frank Jiang
Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 592 posts · 765 votes
7y
Vaguely off topic, but I have felt sympathy for tenants in a tough situation. I've never evicted anyone. I did have a tenant in a really nice A class property in Indianapolis. He and his wife both worked and they had two kids. Good guy, paid rent on time and was super respectful.
I wanted to sell the house. I didn't have an urgent need to sell the place, but the house had appreciated and I wanted my capital back to reinvest in some other projects. The first time I try to sell the place, the tenant's lease is not yet up, it has about 5 months left on it. I get multiple sight unseen offers at an agreeable price from owner occupied buyers and I offer the tenant some money to terminate the lease early.
He thinks about it hard but ends up declining. Fine, I tell him that I won't be renewing his lease after his 5 months are up and that I will sell the place for sure afterward. He expresses that he really really wants to stay and that his family loves the house, so I offer him right of first refusal to buy the place at market value in 5 months when his lease is up, on the conditions that he show proof of funds for downpayment and a preapproval from a bank.
He says his credit is not so great from medical bills. I point him to a loan broker who also helps to work with clients on their credit. I point him to some sites on how to improve one's credit. He says he's going to do everything in his power to get these things accomplished.
5 months go by and I ask him if he's been able to come up with down payment and preapproval. He tells me he wasn't able to meet that goal. I tell him I won't be renewing the lease. He leaves without a fuss and leaves the place in good condition and even thanks me for giving him the chance, even though it didn't work out.
Did I feel bad for the guy? Absolutely. Do I feel guilty over how any of that was handled? Not in the slightest. I tried my best to give an honest working man a chance while not being a pushover or a greedy landlord. The house even further appreciated in the 5 months I waited.
2 Reply
Tyler Seever
Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 1 vote
7y
Just had to do my first eviction. Never feel guilty. A tenant not paying you while living in YOUR property is no different than them taking money right out of your bank account. You did nothing wrong so there's nothing to feel guilty about.
1 Reply
Jonathan W.
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 512 posts · 301 votes
7y
@Cameron Riley no because he probably can’t afford to live or be around you either but no. You’re not a charity
You do not supply free housing
Nothing is free
Be it a lesson in responsibility to him to not make financial commitments he cannot keep.
Was he 20 years old and barley able to afford rent and a little in over his head? If he was then maybe there is slight guilt as you shouldn’t have accepted him but in general no.
However if you have a bad screening process this will likely happen again and then it’s not guilt you should be feeling but just shame for doing a poor job
1 Reply
Javier Marchena
Investor · Winter Springs, FL · Member since 2010 · 165 posts · 68 votes
7y
@Cameron Riley
Hey Cameron, can I rent a house from you? I am planning on not paying...
No Cameron, do not feel guilty.
1 Reply
Ryan Hamaker
Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2018 · 73 posts · 35 votes
7y
If your renter isn’t contributing to your business plan, he/she is a liability, not an asset. We all want to feel human in the way we lead our lives but there must be a reasonable limit to our generosity. If you owned a franchise restaurant, would you be able to stay in business if half of your customers came in and asked for free food for the month. This scenario is amplified when you have one customer for that one property since your one tenant equates to 100% of your customers.
Talk to him first. Maybe it’s just a small bump in the road and he can get back on track in a week or so. Start the normal 3 day notice procedure. If that doesn’t work, move the discussion toward eviction or even easier, pay him to leave. Offer to pay for a moving truck plus a few hundred dollars if he will leave over the weekend. That’s usually a lot less expensive and time consuming than an eviction.
1 Reply
Ryan Dossey
Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
I think that it's possible to show compassion but also not get walked all over.

We will offer an otherwise problem-free resident help once a year. This could be waiving a late fee or taking a payment plan for a portion of rent.
Most Americans operate check to check on the brink of disaster. It's natural that you're going to have to people need help.
However, this is why you have written policies/procedures. There isn't any emotion, feelings, or lost sleep involved in it. It's simply business.

^ This coming from someone who evicted a resident and had them cause $50,000 + in damage.
I find there is much less drama when you set proper expectations upfront.
If you don't pay by X we do Y. If we haven't heard from you by Z it's handed to our attorney for eviction.
2 Reply
Jonathan AndersonPro Member
Real Estate Agent · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 199 posts · 105 votes
7y
I feel like a lot of people in here are forgetting that you can deploy empathy and still run a business.
4 Reply
Jeff Small
Investor · Sewell, NJ · Member since 2016 · 68 posts · 48 votes
7y
@Cameron Rile. Never
1 Reply
Thomas Taylor III
Flipper/Rehabber · Columbus, MS · Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 16 votes
7y
I evict at least two or three families/households every month, and I feel terrible about it each time. As a Flipper, I probably have not developed the tenant- landlord relationship you guys have developed, but it is never fun for anybody. everyone knows the occupants are getting evicted, even the renters, the best thing we can do in this situation is show empathy and understanding while sticking to your financial guns. Every bad situation has a win-win, you just need to look for it.
1 Reply
Cameron Riley
OP
Rental Property Investor · Phila, PA · Member since 2018 · 554 posts · 118 votes
7y
@Jim K.
You are going to have to explain this comment lol.
0 Reply
Dennis M.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
7y
Does your bank feel bad about kicking you out when you stop paying your mortgage ? Does the guy at the gas or electric company lose sleep over you not paying your bill and having to shut off the services ? Does the Walmart cashier with neon green hair tattoos and fish hooks in her lips feel bad if your card doesn’t work at the checkout ? ...There’s your answer
2 Reply
Michael J Callinan
Rental Property Investor · Clinton, CT · Member since 2016 · 49 posts · 36 votes
7y
Does the bank feel guilty when you don't pay them and they foreclose on you? I know its harsh but you can't have too many emotions when it comes to paying rent/bills. We (investors) don't get any sympathy.
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