Would you evict a 102 year old woman?

Joe A.Business Member

Realtor · Waco, TX · Member since 2018 · 76 posts · 80 votes

https://www.foxnews.com/us/102-year-old-california-woman-evicted-so-landlords-daughter-can-move-in

This guy is evicting a 102 year old woman so his daughter can move in to the apartment. The woman had been living there for 30 years! I know what I’d do. What would you do?

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member

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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes

I think they're pretty generous giving her 90 days to move.

I think the real crime here is that families no longer take care of their elderly. It's cool she's able to live on her own but that's going to change any day now. If I had a relative that age, I would be encouraging them to move in with me so we could keep an eye on them and help them. I certainly wouldn't leave them out on their own, paying rent and exposed to unscrupulous contractors or landlords or door-knockers or whatever.

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Andre' Arceneaux
Rental Property Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2019 · 151 posts · 92 votes
7y
@Matt P. In this environment, with a daughter in law school, and a tenant for 30 years, he's doing nothing but looking at the dollar (doubt he owns only one property), and he's trying to capture the 2-300% rent increases many people are falling victim to, means his 30 year, 102 year old tenant isn't exempt.
If he owns other property in the area (likely) then he's doing fine, seeing he isn't trying to capture market rent, but move his young daughter in. It's just a heartless and callous thing. She's paying you, let her pay.
She's 102 for goodness sake.
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Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Brian Ellis:

@Matt P.
I don't understand the comment "leaving emotion out of it", when you assumed the landlord has been paid for 30 years straight. If that's the case, then hes just heartless.. You don't have to be heartless to run a profitable business.
It is frustrating when people use the "it is business leave emotions out of it" excuse for bad behavior. Those same people are the first ones to get vindictive if anyone wrongs them. Anyone who has run a rental property business for over 30 years should be a multi-millionaire and would not care about leaving grandma there a couple more years. If you are not a multimillionaire after 30 years in this business, then you are a bad business person and the whole "it is a business" argument falls flat.
Wealthy people have an abundance mentality. Poor people have a greedy poor mans mindset. They believe money is limited and they need to "get their fair share". It is a very common mindset with investors starting out, especially if they were not raised in a wealthy family. Remember, greed is an emotion!
Until you get rid of a poor mans mindset, you will always be limited in your earnings potential. Most rich people are generous and would never evict grandma because they know she will be dead within a couple years. They would reward the 30 years of loyalty and let her die in dignity, instead of thrown out on the street. They would see no upside to throwing her out and would find another place for their child or her to live. They are loyal to people who are loyal to them. They also understand that the negative publicity of throwing out 102 year old ladies can have serious repercussions on your business and personal life. Is it worth the entire world thinking you are a greedy @sshole just so your spoiled brat kid can have a house? (That is another subject, which is why they didn't raise their child to be self sufficient.)
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Account Closed
Real Estate Agent · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2018 · 33 posts · 9 votes
7y
@Timothy VanWingerden It's unfortunate but it's true. Landlords can't discriminate renting to someone because they're too old, but if a young person was paying market rent from years ago, I wouldn't think twice about raising rent or not renewing the lease. But that's also why there is a community to discuss this, because there is a gray area in real estate and not everyone is going to see issues the same way.
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Andre' Arceneaux
Rental Property Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2019 · 151 posts · 92 votes
7y
@Joe Splitrock 🎯🎯🎯
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Account Closed
Real Estate Agent · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2018 · 33 posts · 9 votes
7y
@Andre' Arceneaux I believe the daughter moving in is the bigger problem to most. It's one thing to say a landlord has rented to the same person for 30 years and not increased rent and suddenly decided rent needed to increase. It's something different to say he was completely fine renting to this elderly woman for the same rate for 30 years only to want the apartment for his daughter who couldn't find anywhere else to live.
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Brian Ellis
Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Brian Ellis:

@Matt P.
I don't understand the comment "leaving emotion out of it", when you assumed the landlord has been paid for 30 years straight. If that's the case, then hes just heartless.. You don't have to be heartless to run a profitable business.
It is frustrating when people use the "it is business leave emotions out of it" excuse for bad behavior. Those same people are the first ones to get vindictive if anyone wrongs them. Anyone who has run a rental property business for over 30 years should be a multi-millionaire and would not care about leaving grandma there a couple more years. If you are not a multimillionaire after 30 years in this business, then you are a bad business person and the whole "it is a business" argument falls flat.
Wealthy people have an abundance mentality. Poor people have a greedy poor mans mindset. They believe money is limited and they need to "get their fair share". It is a very common mindset with investors starting out, especially if they were not raised in a wealthy family. Remember, greed is an emotion!
Until you get rid of a poor mans mindset, you will always be limited in your earnings potential. Most rich people are generous and would never evict grandma because they know she will be dead within a couple years. They would reward the 30 years of loyalty and let her die in dignity, instead of thrown out on the street. They would see no upside to throwing her out and would find another place for their child or her to live. They are loyal to people who are loyal to them. They also understand that the negative publicity of throwing out 102 year old ladies can have serious repercussions on your business and personal life. Is it worth the entire world thinking you are a greedy @sshole just so your spoiled brat kid can have a house? (That is another subject, which is why they didn't raise their child to be self sufficient.)
Couldn't have said it better. I cant help but get frustrated anytime I hear the "this is not a business for emotions". No, its a business that shouldn't be dictated by emotions. You don't let emotions run your decisions, you do what is right. Evicting someone that old so your daughter can live rent free is a sh$t bag move, and a decision based on the wrong emotion.
Him and his daughters reputation is ruined. Any one of you defending the landlord would be saying otherwise if you were in his shoes right now.
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Bjorn AhlbladPro Member
Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
7y
Newspaper/TV stories are only accurate to a point, and there could be all kinds of scenario not included. I do not believe a graduating lawyer can't find a place to live; nor do I believe a young woman would/should want to continue under daddy's wing.
The whole scenario might just be an excuse to get the old tenant out, rehab, and raise the rent by a crazy amount. Same tenant for 30 years in an LA area who knows how much under market that might be. I rented to my MIL in California at 2500 dollars per month under market-that's right-market rent for a 3 bed 2 bath house in San Mateo CA is 4,500 per month.
Anyway, if it were me I would leave the tenant in place and let my daughter find her own accommodation. Why evict a rent paying tenant of any age? She has been fulfilling her obligation since before the daughter was even born.
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Erik W.
Real Estate Investor · Springfield, MO · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
Two thoughts:
1) No one here is financially impacted by this decision, so I don't think any of us have any business calling anyone heartless or evil for making a decision with what to do.
2) Numbers. 102-years-old and 30 years as a renter. What if she were age 90? 80? 70? What if she were age 65 but had a bad hip or had a stroke in the past? What if she'd only lived there 20 years? 15 years? 5 years?
What are the "magic numbers" that make non-renewing a lease okay vs. not okay? Does one number carry more weight than another? Do other life circumstances come into play?
9 Reply
Javier D.
Investor · FL · Member since 2017 · 266 posts · 220 votes
7y
@Joe Alford
Roll her wheelchair right out and down the hill... Bye felicia!
Jk
1 Reply
Laura Shinkle
Realtor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2017 · 359 posts · 293 votes
7y
This article doesn't go into any specific facts. If it was simply to give the apartment to my daughter, I wouldn't. However, what if living alone was not a good situation for the tenant anymore and this was a push to help them get care they need? I try not to be quick to judge because you never know what the real circumstances are.
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Lee L.
Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 285 posts · 142 votes
7y
I certainly would NOT evict her. Not only because of morality, and perhaps karma, but also your reputation. You'll forever be that heartless person who evicted a 102 year-old woman.
"It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently."
-- Warren Buffett
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Joe A.Business Member
OP
Realtor · Waco, TX · Member since 2018 · 76 posts · 80 votes
7y
@Colleen F. I’d let her stay and find something else for my daughter. Yes, business and bottom lines are important, but not more than people (especially people that haven’t done anything wrong). I view my business as a chance to help people. I want to provide quality housing at affordable prices while still keeping an eye on my pocketbook. That being said, I’m not going to get into a bad deal just to help others. I’ll do my best to find good deals AND help people.
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Alan Grobmeier
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 919 posts · 911 votes
7y
@Javier D., LMAO! :-)
@Joe Splitrock, the article doesn't state if the owner is the same owner for those 30 years. It could have been new owner buying the place from someone else. He/She looked at the tenant rolls and noted a LT renter that was the 102 woman.
We really don't know as the article WON'T (on purpose) tell us those things. We are supposed to be outraged that a landlord would fail to renew a lease on a 102 yr old woman. Period. ;-)
The BOTTOM LINE is the owner was well within legal rights to give the tenant a 90 day notice.
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Anthony Wick
Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
@Joe Splitrock Wow. You sir, took more liberties and presumptions into this story than anybody else that responded. I read the article. I missed the part where the landlord was rich and a greedy A-hole. Did the article even state the landlord has owned the place for 30 years? I also missed where his kid was a spoiled brat. I have no idea where your angry post came from, but as you are a BP Moderator, it was disappointing.
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Jordan MoorheadBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
Sounds like he's in his rights to do it so I won't judge the guy. I wouldn't do it personally but what do I know? I don't have a daughter or live in the peoples democratic republic of California. I do have a 94 year old grandmother and wouldn't evict a 102 year old lady personally to make room for a fully capable family member.
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Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Erik W.:

Two thoughts:
1) No one here is financially impacted by this decision, so I don't think any of us have any business calling anyone heartless or evil for making a decision with what to do.
2) Numbers. 102-years-old and 30 years as a renter. What if she were age 90? 80? 70? What if she were age 65 but had a bad hip or had a stroke in the past? What if she'd only lived there 20 years? 15 years? 5 years?
What are the "magic numbers" that make non-renewing a lease okay vs. not okay? Does one number carry more weight than another? Do other life circumstances come into play?
I wouldn't even call him heartless, but rather a bad business person and bad decision maker. His decision hurt him, not me. I guarantee if he could rewind time, that he would make a different decision. Therefore, even he would acknowledge it was a bad decision.
I went through some ethics training a few years ago and learned a good method for making ethical decisions. Imagine the decision you are about to make was on the front page of the newspaper in the morning. Imagine the decision was spread all over social media. Imagine your friends and family all knew what decision you made.
Then ask yourself, would I be proud of my decision? Would I feel comfortable defending my choice? What impact would my choice have on my business, my life and my family?
Had this landlord visualized his decision in this manner, he would have never done this.
3 Reply
Anthony Wick
Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
Funny, every landlord in here that responded "let her stay, she's paid rent on time", runs their business different than their comments. You screen people for salary, job, credit score. You set a rent amount that YOU want, not that the tenant wants. You raise rents when the market says you should or when your costs go up. You renew or non renew leases as your business dictates. You certainly evict when you need to (this isn't an evictions btw). But, oh, not today. Today it's all about humanitarian needs and having a "big heart". Or Karma. That's my favorite response. These decisions are so easy, especially when it isn't your business, your child, your rent, your income.
6 Reply
David Stone
Rental Property Investor · Davenport, FL · Member since 2013 · 285 posts · 220 votes
7y
They are definitely pushing an agenda here with this article using an extreme example to push a case for all tenants.

“It just shows a perfect example of how tenants without strong rent-controlled protections are vulnerable to displacement and injustices.”

I would not have given a vacate notice to ANYONE who paid my mortgage for the last 30 years and kept the place nice (I would have just found another deal and housed my daughter there or worked with the family in an effort to coordinate a plan for housing the tenant to soften the blow), but landlords should not be punished and criticized in general when following the current laws that were put in place.
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Alan Grobmeier
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 919 posts · 911 votes
7y
@Jordan Moorhead She is NOT being evicted! I am going CRAZY with this 'she is being evicted'. She's NOT!
And the WORST part about it is over half of you investors are using the SAME term! It's a non-renewal of an existing lease. The media is brainwashing you too.
The landlord is deciding to NOT renew the lease. Such a monster difference! When you get to the end of your 1 year lease the landlord has choices: Renew or not renew.
This person decided NOT to renew. Even gave her 90 days notice instead of the required 60.
I don't see a problem here.
6 Reply
Jordan MoorheadBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
Ok, well I wouldn't not renew her lease. How much longer is she going to be in anyway? I assume she's been a great tenant if they've kept her for 30 years.
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Anthony Wick
Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
BTW, if my tenants pay their rent on time for X number of years, do I now owe them special treatment? Tenants pay their rent for the right to live in my property. In exchange, I provide a good place to live and respond quickly to any issues. It's a simple transaction really. Them paying rent on time does not entitle them to live in my property for eternity. That's why we each sign the contract (lease), with specific terms.
6 Reply
Matt P.
Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 625 posts · 601 votes
7y
@Joe Splitrock You don't know what he would have done Joe. Only what you would do. According to you he is a multi millionaire so he must not be that bad at making decisions. Some people don't live their life and make their decisions based on what other people think.
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Scott Anderson
Rental Property Investor · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2019 · 27 posts · 8 votes
7y
@Joe Alford
I would do everything in my power to resolve this, either by working with the tenant’s family, or finding an alternate place for her to live, or sucking it up and letting her stay. There are a million situations where it’s necessary to do the right thing in the name of business. However for me there are also those times where you follow your heart and do something that doesn’t make financial sense. This ability to choose is on of the beauties of working for yourself.
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Dan H.Pro Member
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
7y
I suspect that the unit is in an area that has RSO and the tenant is and has been paying below market rent for quite a while. Being a tenant that long she could be over $1K/month under market rent.
Now if I have a daughter that wants to rent in the area, she could find a place and pay market rent but the cost would be $1K/month more than terminating the month to month lease (it is not an eviction - she was on a month to month lease). The RSO rules allow it. There is no way of knowing if the purpose of the lease termination is to get the unit back to market or if the daughter is expecting to live there more than the minimum time dictated by the RSO rules but I would not assume that this is simply a ploy to get around the RSO regulations. It is quite possible that it is a way for a younger lady to start her independent life in a unit that at market rent she may not be able to afford. The average apartment rents for $2850 in Los Angeles. That is outside the range of most people when they are first starting out.
I would terminate the lease to provide my child a better place to live than she could otherwise get. I do not feel it is my responsibility to provide social welfare beyond what regulations dictate (note assuming RSO, the regulations have dictated that I supplement this 102 year old lady that is not family the difference between market rent and RSO rent which could be over $1K/month).
I question how many of you would supplement a tenant over $1K a month at the cost of your child living in a worse (typically less safe) location as a result.
Let the tenant's family or the government supplement the 102 year old tenant's living if they see fit.
7 Reply
Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Anthony Wick:
@Joe Splitrock Wow. You sir, took more liberties and presumptions into this story than anybody else that responded. I read the article. I missed the part where the landlord was rich and a greedy A-hole. Did the article even state the landlord has owned the place for 30 years? I also missed where his kid was a spoiled brat. I have no idea where your angry post came from, but as you are a BP Moderator, it was disappointing.
This was the Fox News version of the story, so you are going to get a certain view point. There are other details reported by other news outlets. The landlord has three similar units in the complex, one of which was vacant last year. He could have given notice to any of the three tenants, but he chose the longest term tenant. It is rent controlled, so most likely he chose her due to lowest rent. He is using a rule in rent control that allows you to evict if family is moving in. He probably sees it as win/win, get your kid a place to live and escape rent controls. The landlords parents purchased the property and she has been a tenant with their family.
I am not angry. I just don't agree with the constant drum beat that you need to treat tenants like dirt to make a profit. Then landlords who try to treat tenants like customers, get called "emotional" or "hobby landlords" and told we are doing it wrong. Treating people right is good business. It is better business than prioritizing profit over relationships and reputation. I see business as a long game and abundance mentality as the key to success. Profit comes through doing the right thing, not at the expense of others. That is my personal opinion.
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