Would you evict a 102 year old woman?

Joe A.Business Member

Realtor · Waco, TX · Member since 2018 · 76 posts · 80 votes

https://www.foxnews.com/us/102-year-old-california-woman-evicted-so-landlords-daughter-can-move-in

This guy is evicting a 102 year old woman so his daughter can move in to the apartment. The woman had been living there for 30 years! I know what I’d do. What would you do?

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member

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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes

I think they're pretty generous giving her 90 days to move.

I think the real crime here is that families no longer take care of their elderly. It's cool she's able to live on her own but that's going to change any day now. If I had a relative that age, I would be encouraging them to move in with me so we could keep an eye on them and help them. I certainly wouldn't leave them out on their own, paying rent and exposed to unscrupulous contractors or landlords or door-knockers or whatever.

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Cody L.
Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Tanner Marsey:

@Alan Grobmeier
Just told tenants I’m selling a rental in Huntington Beach for this reason. Taxes and the looming threat of rent control and other regulation are making it less appealing to own rentals here. I’ll probably rebuy when the time is right but strictly for appreciation. Even considering selling my primary and becoming a renter again....
I've thought about the same. If I sold my house (in SD, I own it cash, let's just say it's worth $1m), I could make 10% cash on cash return ***EASILY*** by buying multifmaily. Likely way more but let's just use 10%. So that's $100k/year. That's ~$8,300/month.

My neighbor, who has the same house as me (just about) rents his house for $4,500. So I could sell my house, invest the $1m, make $8,300/month, and then rent my same house back for $4,500. Or I could use that $8,300/month to rent a house that's 2x as cool as mine. So basically upgrade my $1m house to live in a $2m house for $0 extra
It's really hard to make a rational argument to be a home owner vs. renter in SD. The only reason I do it is when it comes to the house I live in, these arguments go out the window for my wife. I can't make a financial argument. She wants to own the home, period. So oh well :)
1 Reply
Ricardo R.Pro Member
Property Manager · Michigan Ctr, MI · Member since 2016 · 663 posts · 581 votes
7y
This is interesting. I can see the 102 year old woman's side and I can understand the Landlord's side. The fact is that the Landlord is within his right to do so and even gave her a 90 days notice, which I think is more than fair. We don't know the Landlord's situation, if he's struggling to pay for repairs or if want's to do something else with his property regardless, it is his property. Albeit the woman has been living there for 30 years and that is something to be respected but, at what point does the property become hers and not the Landlord's? And at what point is it the Landlord's responsibility to support this woman? Would it be different if she was younger and only lived there for a year? - I would however, like to think that he would help her find a place to live by giving good recommendations - she's obviously a good Tenant (she's been there for 30 years) but, not even that is his responsibility if he doesn't want to, he provided this woman with housing for 30 years and now wants to do something else, can you blame him, it's been 30 years.
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Cody L.
Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Alan Grobmeier:

@Tanner Marsey, Huntington Beach is not on the rent control list, per this website below. Are you doing a 'pre-emptive' strike? ;-)
https://www.caltenantlaw.com/RCcities.htm
"the looming threat of rent control"
2 Reply
Stanley Bronstein
Attorney, CPA, Broker & Author · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2018 · 532 posts · 488 votes
7y
My father had a rental house he sold some 25 years ago, with Seller financing.
I wound up having to take the property back, as the buyer defaulted on the loan.
When I went there, I saw that a tenant who had lived in the property for the past 45 years was still there.
She used to pay her rent weekly and I collected rent from her personally countless times when I was growing up.
She tried to hand me her money and I refused to take it.
I told her that she'd paid rent there for 45+ years and I didn't want her money. She'd already paid enough.
Now I realize that's not a normal situation and we were talking may $100 per week.
All I know is that $100 meant a heck of a lot more to her than it did to me.
5 Reply
Alan Grobmeier
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 919 posts · 911 votes
7y
@Cody L. I would rather deal with 'realz', not speculation. If that was the case I probably would sold out of CA a LONG time ago. ;-)
Yup, there is the 'looming threat of rent control'. There is possible repeal of Prop 13, which would HAMMER me.
If Prop 13 gets repealed I MIGHT have a decision to make. In the meantime I'll collect my cash. ;-)
1 Reply
John CasmonPro Member
Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
As others pointed out, this was not an eviction just a non-renewal of the lease. I don't know the owner's situation, but I will say there are a lot of assumptions being made.

If the property is rent-controlled, it may have deferred maintenance or other issues and if the daughter is going to law school, the owner may need to have additional funds to support that six-figure education. There should absolutely be compassion in the handling of the situation, but just because someone is old and has lived in a property for a long time doesn't mean they get to dictate when they leave. I don't know CA rules, but if the agreement states that the owner can decide not to renew, this really is a non-story.
3 Reply
Dan H.Pro Member
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Cody L.:

Originally posted by @Phil Christian:
That's not an eviction in CA. Evictions in CA are through the courts and there is a Judge making a legal judgement on the case.
Serving a 90 Day notice to terminate a month to month tenancy is simply saying "I as a landlord (adult) is not continuing a month to month contract with you Tenant (another adult)".
There is a huge push by the insane liberal left to change words and their definitions...
The media, politicians and the leftest activists in California have been pushing the "eviction" narrative for the last few years and they are really ramping up the incorrect use of the word to be a catch all phrase for any lawful ending to a term contract. It is extremely dishonest and as a LL frustrating. Sadly, the left is winning this fight over the correct definitions; landlords who know the laws are now using the term eviction incorrectly due to the fact that the narrative is being pushed so heavily by advocate groups.
Sadly, the left in CA wants all housing to be subsidized for everyone and to control all zoning laws stripping away local zoning authority to give free handouts to all. The state is going to be left with ulta high end market rate housing and gov. subsidized housing with nothing in the middle. What could go wrong?
In new york, the left media changed the term for a burger or home invader to something like 'unwelcomed house guest'. I'm not kidding. I'll try to find the tweet.
I enjoy burgers, especially in-n-Out burgers. Do not know why they would be unwelcomed unless I was a vegetarian. :=).
I used to consider myself a liberal democrat but the left gets more left and the right gets more right. Now I classify myself as an anal conservationist but moderate on most other items. I think political correctness has gone to an extreme. Recently some high school teachers dressed as Mexicans for a Mexican related holiday. The costumes were certainly not intended to offend. No race of people all look the same, etc. The costumes, by nature, have a bit of caricature (they wore mustaches and sombreros - We all know that most Mexicans do not wear Sombreros or have mustaches). They are getting sensitivity training. A poll by the local news station showed that a very small percentage of people (<10) took any offense but some did and so it apparently is a problem.
Termination of a lease is not an eviction. How come when the tenant gives the LL notice of termination it is simply giving notice but vice versus is often mistakenly called an eviction. It is the exact same thing. One party of the lease agreement has decided not to extend the lease. In this case, through a legal mechanism that allows the LL to terminate a lease that appears to be in a RSO zone. And people make the LL to be bad when he likely has been supplementing via lower than market rent this tenant for years.
3 Reply
Alan Grobmeier
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 919 posts · 911 votes
7y
@Dan H., There is no state in the United States where terminating of a lease is considered an 'eviction'. By either party.
I am FLOORED by the number of 'real estate investors' that fell hook, line, and sinker in calling this an 'eviction'.
The media called it an 'eviction', so they all called it an eviction as well.
It wasn't.
3 Reply
John Teachout
Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
Is it the 102 years old that's the issue here? If so, what if she was 96 and not 102? What if she was 84? What if she was 69? What if she was 51?
If the age is the issue that makes the landlord a bad guy, when does that age start? These scenarios make for a lot of "what ifs" but the exact situation is probably not all that cut and dried. Does make for a sensational story that elicits lots of heartfelt responses though.
1 Reply
David Jack
Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 10 votes
7y
No.
1 Reply
Cody L.
Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Dan H.:

Originally posted by @Cody L.:
Originally posted by @Phil Christian:

That's not an eviction in CA. Evictions in CA are through the courts and there is a Judge making a legal judgement on the case.
Serving a 90 Day notice to terminate a month to month tenancy is simply saying "I as a landlord (adult) is not continuing a month to month contract with you Tenant (another adult)".
There is a huge push by the insane liberal left to change words and their definitions...
The media, politicians and the leftest activists in California have been pushing the "eviction" narrative for the last few years and they are really ramping up the incorrect use of the word to be a catch all phrase for any lawful ending to a term contract. It is extremely dishonest and as a LL frustrating. Sadly, the left is winning this fight over the correct definitions; landlords who know the laws are now using the term eviction incorrectly due to the fact that the narrative is being pushed so heavily by advocate groups.
Sadly, the left in CA wants all housing to be subsidized for everyone and to control all zoning laws stripping away local zoning authority to give free handouts to all. The state is going to be left with ulta high end market rate housing and gov. subsidized housing with nothing in the middle. What could go wrong?
In new york, the left media changed the term for a burger or home invader to something like 'unwelcomed house guest'. I'm not kidding. I'll try to find the tweet.
I enjoy burgers, especially in-n-Out burgers. Do not know why they would be unwelcomed unless I was a vegetarian. :=).
I used to consider myself a liberal democrat but the left gets more left and the right gets more right. Now I classify myself as an anal conservationist but moderate on most other items. I think political correctness has gone to an extreme. Recently some high school teachers dressed as Mexicans for a Mexican related holiday. The costumes were certainly not intended to offend. No race of people all look the same, etc. The costumes, by nature, have a bit of caricature (they wore mustaches and sombreros - We all know that most Mexicans do not wear Sombreros or have mustaches). They are getting sensitivity training. A poll by the local news station showed that a very small percentage of people (<10) took any offense but some did and so it apparently is a problem.
Termination of a lease is not an eviction. How come when the tenant gives the LL notice of termination it is simply giving notice but vice versus is often mistakenly called an eviction. It is the exact same thing. One party of the lease agreement has decided not to extend the lease. In this case, through a legal mechanism that allows the LL to terminate a lease that appears to be in a RSO zone. And people make the LL to be bad when he likely has been supplementing via lower than market rent this tenant for years.
I have lots of friends who used to be what I'd call center left. But the left has gone SO far to the left, that some of the more crazy alt leftists out there would call my friends 'far right'. There was some pew study (maybe I'll try to find the link) that showed the right and left positions over time. The right stays pretty consistent. The left has moved WAY off the map. That's why positions from even 5-10 years ago by most dems are being abandoned. i.e., border security, non racist identity politics positions, etc.
2 Reply
Chris Youssi
Rental Property Investor · Caledonia, IL · Member since 2015 · 290 posts · 213 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Joe A.:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/102-year-old-california-woman-evicted-so-landlords-daughter-can-move-in
This guy is evicting a 102 year old woman so his daughter can move in to the apartment. The woman had been living there for 30 years! I know what I’d do. What would you do?
Title of your post very misleading - landlord IS NOT evicting anyone / just not renewing her lease. BIG DIFFERENCE!
2 Reply
Christopher Wasowicz
Rental Property Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 3 votes
7y
@Joe Alford
I’d leave the 102 year old where she is and still move my daughter in. Then what’s the wacky, generation gap sitcom ensue!
2 Reply
Joe A.Business Member
OP
Realtor · Waco, TX · Member since 2018 · 76 posts · 80 votes
7y
@Chris Youssi You’re right. I guess I just titled it that because the article did.
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1 Reply
Crystal Place
Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 13 posts · 5 votes
7y
@Joe Alford No, I most certainly wouldn’t. People say business is business, but ALL of our actions affect the world and are not in some making money bubble where every action is justified by the bottom line. Sometimes doing what seems the most decent thing isn’t the best for the bank account in that moment. I’m all for making profit, but the world doesn’t need more greed at the expense of a 102 human being. I think it’s shameful and most certainly there are other temporary options that would be more decent for all. Also, if she’s 102, how much longer is she really going to be living there anyway?! Everyone has a right to their opinion, but, frankly, I’m appalled some people think making money justifies any behavior. Sometimes there’s just thoughtful human decency or a lack of it.
4 Reply
Dennis M.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
7y
Typical Man bites dog story . Look At 102 your running on embalming fluid at this point , so there’s just no sense in dumping grandma if she’s paying rent every month and not causing problems .i say The daughter can wait . How much longer would the lady live at this stage .
6 Reply
Lee Bell
Real Estate Appraiser · Isabella lake, CA · Member since 2018 · 628 posts · 491 votes
7y
Let her stay.
Legal is one thing, ethical and moral and doing the right thing is another.
0 Reply
Kris L.
San Antonio, TX · Member since 2019 · 930 posts · 836 votes
7y
Theoretically she could live several more years. How long is the Landlord not allowed to use his personal property?
1 Reply
Constancia R.
IN · Member since 2017 · 96 posts · 63 votes
7y
Boy, what an ethics question.
It really depends upon the circumstances. If my child had no other options and if the tenant had family to help her, most likely--though it would not be an easy decision for me. However, if my child had options and the tenant did not or had few, then no.
Having read the circumstances in the article (plus another, which explained more in depth), I would not have done it. The daughter is just about to finish law school, so is probably not in dire straits. She probably has loads of viable options (though some more comfortable than others). Even if the daughter needs help until she gets on her feet, why not just help her with another place?
I feel that the age of the tenant should be taken into consideration. Sure, a 102-year-old is near death anyway, but why uproot her and have her die, tied to a move? Moving is a major stressor for *anyone* but forced relocation and morbidity are especially tied when it comes to the elderly. Nope, would not want my name on that.
2 Reply
Ayo O.
Rental Property Investor · HOUSTON, TX - Texas · Member since 2017 · 93 posts · 19 votes
7y
@Joe Alford I hope I don't find myself in that situation but if I do I will likely get her help so that she would be able to pay her rent.Setting up a GoFundMe account on her behalf or helping her to apply for social benefits are things that come to mind.If she alI these fail,I may just leave her as a non paying tenant.I don't want to evict no 102 year old woman,so help me God!
0 Reply
Joe A.Business Member
OP
Realtor · Waco, TX · Member since 2018 · 76 posts · 80 votes
7y
@Kris L. There’s a lady near where I live that just turned 107!
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Steve B.
Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Joe Alford lots of virtue signalers on her but I’m pretty compassionate myself so I’d give her some free prune Juice and a QVC gift certificate when I evict her. I think that’s only right.
0 Reply
Heather Schmidtknecht
Rental Property Investor · Winona, MN · Member since 2018 · 87 posts · 90 votes
7y
@Nathan G. I wish you were my son! 😉
0 Reply
Syed H.
Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes
7y
If i only owned one building and financially needed to, I probably would evict her in the nicest way possible.
If I had bunch of buildings and was financially fine, id wait her out. Not worth having that on my conscience.
Friend of mine had a similar situation. 98 year old with cancer living in a rent stabilized unit. He wouldn't increase rent a penny for him. Didn't start any base building work either. Once you are a multimillionaire, a few $100s or even thousands isn't a huge deal.
1 Reply
David Hendrix
Rental Property Investor · Mansfield, OH · Member since 2014 · 35 posts · 19 votes
7y
What we have the right to do and what is the right thing to do can be very different. In this case, the landlord is on the wrong side of this one. I highly doubt that the landlord expects their daughter to move in (or stay very long). They are doing this just to kick out a very low paying tenant compared to the ridiculous California market rents. However, this landlord has owned the property for a very long time and is likely cash flowing well on this property. Let the 102 lady stay put!
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