Tenant I’m evicting lost lease

Investor · Fall River, MA · Member since 2015 · 75 posts · 32 votes

I have a commercial tenant that I am evicting at the end of the lease term. Their lawyer called me and requested a copy of the lease agreement. Do I legally have to provide them a copy considering they lost the original copy they were given?

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member

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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes

I can't say whether you are legally required but it's a reasonable request. If you're abiding by the contract, why would you refuse to share it? Giving it to the attorney would demonstrate you are operating within the boundaries of the contract and within the law, at which point he would advice his client to drop the suit.

If you refuse to share it, that seems to imply you have something to hide.

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Wayne Brooks
Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
Evicting, or not not renewing?
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Mike Buckley
OP
Investor · Fall River, MA · Member since 2015 · 75 posts · 32 votes
7y
@Wayne Brooks They were sent a certified letter 30 days before the lease ended that we did not intend to extend the lease past it’s expiration date and expected them to be moved out.
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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
7y
I can't say whether you are legally required but it's a reasonable request. If you're abiding by the contract, why would you refuse to share it? Giving it to the attorney would demonstrate you are operating within the boundaries of the contract and within the law, at which point he would advice his client to drop the suit.
If you refuse to share it, that seems to imply you have something to hide.
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Mike Buckley
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Investor · Fall River, MA · Member since 2015 · 75 posts · 32 votes
7y
@Nathan Gesner Good point. There is definitely nothing to hide however this tenant will most likely fight me till the end regardless.
1 Reply
PJ M.
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 174 posts · 124 votes
7y
@Mike Buckley if this ends up in court, do you really want to be the one asked by a judge "why wouldn't you supply a copy of the contract"? It's a perfectly reasonable request. If you lose something, and you know someone who has a copy of it, what do you do? Ask that person for a copy right?
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Scott Mac
Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
7y
@Mike Buckley
If it were me I'd offer it for a fee (in advance) $200,000 (seriously). My new business is lease copy providing and that's my fee--upfront, and that includes providing it under Subpoena.
My time is valuable, and I charge for staples too, per staple.
Will this fly in Mass., who knows????
Good Luck!
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Mike Buckley
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Investor · Fall River, MA · Member since 2015 · 75 posts · 32 votes
7y
Originally posted by @PJ M.:

@Mike Buckley if this ends up in court, do you really want to be the one asked by a judge "why wouldn't you supply a copy of the contract"? It's a perfectly reasonable request. If you lose something, and you know someone who has a copy of it, what do you do? Ask that person for a copy right?
I did consider this as well. However I was also thinking that usually in court situations the party that has their information best put together is considered more credible. If the business tenant shows up to court and isn't even able to hold on to their lease agreement that would speak to their character while they are making up a bunch of stories that never happened. But like you said this could also be perceived the other way.
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Mike Buckley
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Investor · Fall River, MA · Member since 2015 · 75 posts · 32 votes
7y
@Scott Mac I like this approach. I think after reading all of this feedback in the post I'm gonna go with this idea. I'll send them the lease but charge for it and see what happens.
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JD MartinBusiness Member
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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Mike Buckley:
@Scott Mac I like this approach. I think after reading all of this feedback in the post I'm gonna go with this idea. I'll send them the lease but charge for it and see what happens.
I think (hope?) that post was tongue-in-cheek. I don't think you would be well served following that advice.
If you're concerned with looking good in court, that's pretty simple. Ask for some kind of written correspondence asking for a copy of the lease since the tenant misplaced theirs, then send said copy certified to the attorney. But having been to court several times I think you're overthinking this, as no judge is going to care whether the tenant lost their copy or not. Everyone on this planet has lost something at one time or another, and I predict that will have 0% bearing on whether the judge thinks you're the organized, reasonable one and the tenant is not.
Also, you're not really evicting if you are just declining to renew the lease. If there's no mandatory renewal clause, you are certainly within your rights to have the tenant move. It happens to commercial businesses all the time.
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PJ M.
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 174 posts · 124 votes
7y
@Mike Buckley I see your point, and interestingly, it was the same point that I was trying to make, but from the flip side. What will the judge think of your character when they wonder why you wouldn't honor a perfectly reasonable request to provide a copy of the lease? Which do you think reveals more about someone's character? "No your honor, I didn't give him a copy of the lease even though he asked" or "I tried to be as open as possible your honor, I even gave them a copy of the lease when they had lost theirs even though we were in a disagreement on how to proceed"?
2 Reply
Marci Stein
Rental Property Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2011 · 956 posts · 510 votes
7y
Why wouldn’t you ?
2 Reply
Peter Sanchez
Real Estate Investor · Washington, DC · Member since 2014 · 236 posts · 328 votes
7y
If you say no, then they will demand it as part of the discovery process before trial. Do you want to pay your lawyer to argue why you shouldn't give it to them? (hint: you will lose this fight).
1 Reply
Mike Buckley
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Investor · Fall River, MA · Member since 2015 · 75 posts · 32 votes
7y
All great points on here. Definitely just going to send over the lease... As far as "evicting" goes. I had been serving them a 14 day notice to quit each month on the 7th for about half of the past year to keep them up to current. The last month I could have sent them a summons after the 14 days expired however I realized the end of the lease term was the following month. So I figured instead of trying to go through all the court nonsense I would just say I have no intention of extending this. But I think this is going to court anyways from the sound of it.
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JD MartinBusiness Member
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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Mike Buckley:

All great points on here. Definitely just going to send over the lease... As far as "evicting" goes. I had been serving them a 14 day notice to quit each month on the 7th for about half of the past year to keep them up to current. The last month I could have sent them a summons after the 14 days expired however I realized the end of the lease term was the following month. So I figured instead of trying to go through all the court nonsense I would just say I have no intention of extending this. But I think this is going to court anyways from the sound of it.
Even in 'tenant-friendly' states there's generally no right of the tenant to remain beyond the end of a lease unless the terms of holdover have been met - usually that means either written notice/agreement by both parties to continue tenancy under some clause (i.e. month to month) or by the landlord accepting usual rent payments in some manner specified by the lease (i.e. there's a month to month clause, you don't agree to it in writing but you accept their rent payment). Beyond that, the tenant has to get out and is a squatter on day 366 (or whatever your lease term is). Part of the hazard of renting is that you may not be renewed.
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Mike Buckley
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Investor · Fall River, MA · Member since 2015 · 75 posts · 32 votes
7y
@JD Martin True, there is no right to stay past the agreement if I want them out. I'm just in a mode where I'm assuming everyone is going to pull the worst case scenario since I'm also going through another few residential D-class evictions where one of the tenants pulled the "trial by jury" request and made up a bunch of lies in the "answer/discovery" phase. However this one in particular is commercial so I am most likely overthinking it.
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Mike CumbieBusiness Member
REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
Personally I would put their lawyer in contact with yours and let them hash it out. If you are trying to work court angles against an attorney........
If you are sure this is going to court and they have representation........ I would as well. Because you will be sitting there in court thinking you are all set and get "Your honor pursuant to article 7 of statue 73B my client is entitled to (Blah Blah) and the judge will sigh and ask for a response. Deer in headlights is not a good look :)
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Mike Buckley
OP
Investor · Fall River, MA · Member since 2015 · 75 posts · 32 votes
7y
@Mike Cumbie Thats exactly what i'm afraid of. I do have a lawyer on it since the property is under an LLC. I think I'll just send over the lease myself then tell them to direct any other issues to my lawyer.
0 Reply
Nick Ferrari
Property Manager · Allentown, PA · Member since 2017 · 88 posts · 40 votes
7y
@Mike Buckley I am hearing a lot of things on this thread, some of which I agree with and some I think would be a very very bad move. Go with what the majority of the people are telling you...give him a copy of the lease.
When you boil it down you are a small business owner and you have a customer asking you for a very simple basic request. Look forget about the lease it's not important you are being tested by them or their lawyer to see if you will produce the lease. If you don't produce your lease agreement or even worse try charging them $200,000 to produce the lease you will give them the ammunition they need to come after you in court. Plain and simple.
Imagine what a judge would say if you attempted to charge a tenant $200,000 for printing a piece of paper...which they have a right too by the way...I am legitimately concerned for you if you try doing that.
Play their game, it sucks I get it, but that's the situation you're in and one that we all have to go through. Do not something like saying no I won't give you you're lease and if you want it i'm going to charge you an absurd amount of money to get it. Honestly that's inappropriate behavior stepping dangerously close to criminality...
...I swearsome of the things said on these forums, I hope they're just bad jokes going over my head.
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Mike Buckley
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Investor · Fall River, MA · Member since 2015 · 75 posts · 32 votes
7y
@Nick Ferrari I’m gonna just send it. But I don't think a $5 hard copy mailed certified would be an unreasonable amount to charge if I was going to go that route. $200 might be a bit too much.
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Ned J.Pro Member
Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
Refusing to send them a copy of the lease makes you come off like a vindictive, arrogant, spiteful d*ck.... its petty and will only hurt you.
This is business and you want to get this resolved and done with so you can move on..... playing dumb games like not giving them a copy of the lease is incredibly stupid. It will only drag out and inflame the situation.....its serves ZERO purpose....... anyone who advise you to play "hardball" and refuse to send it, is a moron
But it sounds like you have decided to just send it...good..... if you want to tag a processing/management fee to providing it, then fine, but don't get crazy doing it...... $50 is reasonable......
1 Reply
Nick Ferrari
Property Manager · Allentown, PA · Member since 2017 · 88 posts · 40 votes
7y
Yeah I don't know seems like an unnecessary headache you'll create for yourself charging them anything but I agree $5 is a lot more reasonable than $200,000 hahaha.
2 Reply
Nick Ferrari
Property Manager · Allentown, PA · Member since 2017 · 88 posts · 40 votes
7y
@Ned J. Well said this is a business take the emotion out of it.
0 Reply
Patrick Soukup
Rental Property Investor · Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2015 · 273 posts · 127 votes
7y
@Mike Buckley it’s always funny the ones who can’t pay their rent but seem to be able to afford an attorney. What a bunch of losers. Sorry you’re going through this.
7 Reply
Matthew Paul
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
7y
Send them the redacted version .
1 Reply
Mike Buckley
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Investor · Fall River, MA · Member since 2015 · 75 posts · 32 votes
7y
@Patrick Soukup haha ya it always seems that way. Part of the business I guess.
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