Do you carry a gun when visiting your C-F class properties?

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Do you carry a gun when visiting your C-F class properties?

Wy Kay
Specialist · New York City, NY · Member since 2019 · 34 posts · 111 votes

Would like to hear from others on this one.

Often, when I tell someone about an apartment building located in a class C neighborhood in NYC, the first question they ask is whether I carry a gun when visiting the property. The building isn't the safest and I have had gangs/drug dealers make threats in the past but I don't carry a gun or any other type of weapon when visiting the property.

Not just because it's extremely difficult to obtain a permit in NYC but more so because I believe carrying a gun would make me come off as more threatening which in turn can cause others to be more aggressive as well. In addition, don't think someone who isn't highly trained (situational and response training) will necessarily use a gun properly if it actually came down to it.

Some people insist that carrying a gun will cause trouble makers to have more respect.

For those actively managing C-F class properties, do you carry any sort of weapon when visiting a given property?

Why or why not?

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David Woz
Rental Property Investor · SF Bay Area, CA · Member since 2017 · 45 posts · 112 votes
7y

As someone with 25 years as a cop...

1) Do not carry a gun if you can't do it legally.   Places like NYC will prosecute YOU if you use that gun, even if justified in using it.

2). Do not carry a gun if you are not fully trained and plan on continuing that training.   It isn't something you take a weekend course and then think you are done.   It is ongoing and regular training as it is a perishable skill.

Also, if you are carrying, people don't "respect" you because of that.   If you are doing it properly, they won't know you have a firearm.   I can't speak to NYC laws, but in CA, open cary is not legal, so there ins't that element of them avoiding conflict because you are armed.   "Brandishing" or flashing your firearm, even if legally concealed is a crime in most states... So, put it out of your mind that having a firearm will make people avoid conflict with you.  In most circumstances, it creates problems. 

That being said, carrying a firearm isn't for most people because of local laws, but more commonly because their lack of dedication to training.

I would suggest pepper spray or a taser.

Pepper spray for civilians is available at the same levels that the police cary.

Tasers for civilians use the same technology.   The exception is the Tasers for civilians activate for 30 seconds and are designed to deploy, drop the taser and run away.   At 800-1000, it is expensive.

From someone who is a cop and an investor, I would re-think these properties.  If they are that bad, they aren't worth it.

But, if you can do it legally, and are willing to put in the time to train and keep your skills sharp, most cops, including myself,  welcome an armed civilian legally carrying and making good decisions.  

Just my .02 cents.


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  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Wy Kay

    Personally, I would never own in or do work in an area that I felt I needed to carry a gun.

    2Reply
  • Amanda Kessler
    Member since 2019 · 111 posts · 36 votes
    7y

    There's no way that you are going to get a license to carry in NYC first of all. And second, maybe you shouldn't be leasing to Class C tenants if you're afraid of being killed...

    0Reply
  • Denis Churchill
    Loxahatchee, FL · Member since 2017 · 20 posts · 10 votes
    7y

    @Wy Kay Don’t choose to be a victim. Go through whatever hoops and ladders you need to, to carry concealed. Just because you are armed, doesn’t mean you are instigating any hostile situations. It will give you peace of mind and give you some means of defense should you need it. Carry on with your business.

    6Reply
  • Jim BlackburnBusiness Member
    Lender · Florida Based (48 states Puerto Rico) · Member since 2017 · 321 posts · 121 votes
    7y

    @Wy Kay

    Depends... Are you just stopping by to collect rent or to make a citizens arrest?

    954-993-1625
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    3Reply
  • Steven Lowe
    Real Estate Agent · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2019 · 448 posts · 320 votes
    7y

    I have heard of Class A, B, C and C- properties but haven't heard of F.  What is it?  Plutonium dump?  Ancient Indian burial ground?  

    5Reply
  • William Wright
    Raleigh, NC · Member since 2019 · 26 posts · 11 votes
    7y

    @Mike Dymski LOL If you have to carry a gun, and you were told it’s C class, this is probably not a self-defense issue but a due diligence issue..

    4Reply
  • Jonathan Killam
    Lender · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2019 · 59 posts · 60 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Anthony Porembski:

    @Jonathan Killam

    More guns equal more death. Your quote sounds good in theory and I’m not against gun ownership but the societies who have more guns per capita also see more murders per capita.

    It's interesting that you would say that without facts to back it up. 🤔

    In New Hampshire we are ranked 3rd amongst the highest gun ownership per capita. Yet in 2010 we had a total of 5 murders where a gun was the weapon involved. NH is ranked as one of the lowest gun murder rates per capita. 

    That being said, I won't continue this conversation any further because it inevitably goes nowhere, and just upsets people. Take care Anthony.

    Best regards,

    13Reply
  • Anthony Porembski
    Rental Property Investor · Cleveland Heights · Member since 2019 · 74 posts · 35 votes
    7y

    @Jonathan Killam

    I was speaking about America in general but you’re right about furthering the discussion. Can’t disagree with your stats. New Hampshire is an incredibly beautiful and safe place.

    0Reply
  • Vaughn Smith
    Property Manager · NJ · Member since 2017 · 786 posts · 396 votes
    7y

    @Wy Kay I don't carry a gun into properties because it isn't legal to do so in NY & NJ, but i do go into some REALLY rough areas with and on behalf of my clients, there are a lot of rules that you can follow to keep you out of harms way but here are my faves:

    -Go to the property before noon

    -Be aware of your surroundings

    -Don't sneak into a property, announce yourself loudly and often when you walk through 

    -Lock the front and rear door when you enter

    -Go with someone if you arent comfortable going alone 

    -If a property is said to be vacant but there are occupants (squatters) skip it

    Lastly, go with your gut, if you think a situation is unsafe it just might be.

    6Reply
  • Account Closed
    Specialist · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2012 · 865 posts · 351 votes
    7y

    I don’t carry.. But to the general readers this post is troubling.

    1. Good people are afraid to carry guns due to an extremely liberal mindset. 

    2. The criminals have been known to carry.

    3.The fear of the courts ranked higher than the need to protect one’s own life.

    6Reply
  • Syed H.
    Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jonathan Killam:
    Originally posted by @Anthony Porembski:

    @Jonathan Killam

    More guns equal more death. Your quote sounds good in theory and I’m not against gun ownership but the societies who have more guns per capita also see more murders per capita.

    It's interesting that you would say that without facts to back it up. 🤔

    In New Hampshire we are ranked 3rd amongst the highest gun ownership per capita. Yet in 2010 we had a total of 5 murders where a gun was the weapon involved. NH is ranked as one of the lowest gun murder rates per capita. 

    That being said, I won't continue this conversation any further because it inevitably goes nowhere, and just upsets people. Take care Anthony.

    Best regards,

    You guys also the lowest poverty rate and a very small population relative to much larger states. 

    0Reply
  • Syed H.
    Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes
    7y

    OP, where in NYC do you feel the need to carry? 

    Maybe your just scared, because I wouldn’t feel unsafe owning a building in any part of NYC. East New York & Brownsville included. 

    You shouldn’t be going to pick up the rent or confront tenants anyways. Recipe for disaster in any class property. 



    0Reply
  • Justin Rank
    Investor · Winhall, VT · Member since 2016 · 106 posts · 44 votes
    7y

    I don't buy in places I wouldn't want to live so the answer for me is no. If I was buying in areas I did not feel safe, then hell yes. But crime happens everywhere. I live in a neighborhood with million dollar homes and the store right down the street got robbed at gunpoint the other night. I can see both sides of the argument. You really never know where crazy will show up.

    2Reply
  • Sam Shueh
    Real Estate Agent · Cupertino, CA · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    The occupants will show you they all carry automatic rifles. A kindergarten in similar neighborhood asked students on TV if they know what a bullet found at playground is. All raised their hands. One replied my dad's gun is bigger than yours.

    3Reply
  • Luka Milicevic
    Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    A lot of good posts on this thread and I'm happy to see everyone being responsible and making responsible posts!

    I'll add my thoughts as I'm somewhat of a firearm enthusiast (and investor)

    In the state of TN it is legal to CC with a permit, which I have, and it is also legal to open carry. At least it was the case when I took my class. 

    Open carrying to me works as natural selection as you will be the first to die in an active shooter type situation. There is zero tactical advantage and kind of makes you look silly. My instructors have repeatedly told us never to open carry. You especially don't want to be THAT guy that open carries a Glock 17 with a long slide. Come on man!

    Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

    I used to carry in situations where I'm going to be alone and walking through a home under renovation or under construction regardless of the area. Based on security camera footage vacant homes are a prime spot for drug deals, and illegal activities. Let me tell you that some people really do need Jesus.

    When it comes to carrying firearms, what most people fail to realize is the level of training required to be even remotely efficient with using one. There is no such thing as "rising to the occasion". You will default back to your level of training. If you have no training, there is absolutely no telling how you are going to react in a very high stress situation.

    One thing you need to consider that is very important in low income properties: The use of drugs. People that are strung out will have no sense of moral direction if they feel threatened in anyway shape or form. Your inspection that you notified them of 5 times might be a threat to them. You need to consider this fact as well.

    Another thing to remember, a firearm gives you NO policing rights what so ever. It is an absolute last resort option. I had squatters in a property 2 years ago. I went to go check the progress on the property and noticed they set up camp. I had a firearm on me. What did I do? Left and went to the police station to let them know. It's not my job to enforce the law and had I confronted them who knows how that would have ended.

    To summarize, I honestly think most people are actually better off not carrying due to the training requirements needed. I'm a purple belt in BJJ along with some Muay thai experience and that will serve me better in self defense situations that require immediate reaction. The only time that I carry now is when I go to areas where there is a higher probability of an active shooter as the only method of preventing that from doing more damage is to shoot back.

    10Reply
  • Jovan HardwickPro Member
    Flipper · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 53 posts · 25 votes
    7y

    @Wy Kay

    In this day and age I carry everywhere. Hope that answer you question.

    4Reply
  • Ola Dantis
    Multifamily Syndicator · Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Wy Kay 

    If I have to think about getting shot OR getting cashflow, then I seriously would consider another path to financial freedom! 🤪🔫

    8Reply
  • Bryan S.
    Rental Property Investor · CA · Member since 2018 · 225 posts · 180 votes
    7y

    @Wy Kay doesn’t sound like a Class C property of drug dealers are making threats and you are considering carrying a weapon.

    I consider class C not the best, some crime, but not the ghetto either, Class C to me is more of a blue collar neighborhood but not watch out for the drive by shootings.

    0Reply
  • Sharon Rosendahl
    Investor · Quilcene, WA · Member since 2017 · 235 posts · 169 votes
    7y

    It would be a poor idea for someone without training to think a gun will cure their problems. I have always thought C was pretty much blue collar, lower income, smaller houses, maybe slightly run down but not that bad. But yeah, F would be that bad. I guess I wouldn't buy anywhere I didn't feel generally safe. I've lived in some pretty crappy places and some of those I would never own in. 

    I am female so am cautious whenever I'm out and about. I try to travel by day in iffy areas (although walking through downtown Seattle in the winter it can still be dark on the way to the office, glad I don't work there anymore). I also always carry pepper spray. I keep it in a coat pocket or somewhere that is a quick grab. Make sure you are aware of wind direction since it would suck to get a face full of that. 

    I know people who carry personal sirens. Even if you are in an area where people don't care, it will still call attention which will be unwanted by your assailant. My daughter works in downtown Portland, OR. Her work sponsored a self defense class. The instructor recommended a tactical flashlight. Not really considered a weapon but it can light your way, has emergency flasher and enough pointy things on the edge that if the assailant is already close to you, you can poke them in the face which may allow you to get away. This assumes you have the potential to run somewhere safer. If the area is that bad then that may not help.

    Being aware is critical. Whenever I've felt uncomfortable I leave or get somewhere safer like a store or office building.

    I guess I don't feel that my life is worth a few bucks. So I don't invest in anything worse than C level where lots of really nice but lower income families live.

    2Reply
  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    I would not want to own property where I felt unsafe being there.

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    0Reply
  • Steven Lowe
    Real Estate Agent · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2019 · 448 posts · 320 votes
    7y

    I go into some of the worst parts of Chicago.  I've encountered angry tenants, squatters, gang members, crazy homeless people, etc.  I've never felt the need to carry a firearm.  Usually people think I'm an undercover cop or a city employee.  The number of times I've encountered problems I could count on one hand.  Just be hyper aware, vigilant, polite, modest, yet confident, like you belong there, and you won't have any issues.  

    Also, use common sense.  Pulling up to a run down property in the projects in your brand new Range Rover is probably a bad idea.  Don't go to sketchy areas late at night.  If you do visit questionable areas, don't go alone.  If you're touring a supposedly vacant property make sure to loudly announce yourself when you walk in.  If you encounter anyone, leave.

    6Reply
  • Tony Gunter
    Investor · Canton, GA · Member since 2014 · 728 posts · 500 votes
    7y

    I get your question and that your just asking for a sampling of the group. I think it misses one of the most important elements though, the human factor.

    A burly ex Navy Seal will have a much different attitude about venturing into the hood than someone who is generally afraid of their own shadow. One may feel the need to carry a firearm, the other may feel “I’ll kill’em with my thumb”.

    Conversely, that ex Seal may be terrified of public speaking, but the timid soul may feel at home on a stage. The variability of the human element in what your asking makes it

    So, after all that, I give you the lamest response possible...”it depends “.

    2Reply
  • Steven Lowe
    Real Estate Agent · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2019 · 448 posts · 320 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Ola Dantis:

    @Wy Kay 

    If I have to think about getting shot OR getting cashflow, then I seriously would consider another path to financial freedom! 🤪🔫

     I'd have to think hard about it.  :)

    3Reply
  • Bruce Lynn
    Real Estate Broker · Coppell, TX · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    If it is that rough take a body guard.....off duty cop is fairly inexpensive.

    0Reply
  • Bruce Lynn
    Real Estate Broker · Coppell, TX · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    I might add to learn kung fu.  I've never had a problem with drug dealers when I've been in the hood.  They run to the car and I tell them I'm there looking at real estate, then they go away.  Next time I hear them telling their friends he is not a buyer, he's the real estate guy.  The low level rats seem to get it and leave me alone cause I'm not interested in their business.   If it is really rough, then I always wear the construction worker uniform...hard hat, safety vest, jeans, boots.   Never had any disrespect even from squatters.   I normally just tell them police are on the way, and I just wanted to make sure everyone was out before they get there.   They're always like, thanks man and hopping around trying to get their shoes on.   I always knock a lot, yell landlord a lot and give them time to run out the back door before I go in.   Now all this is not real common with me.

    Good thing with the economy here is many of the OG have gone back to work and not hanging around at home or in the hood any more.   It's tough being a gangster these days.

    I'm more afraid of needles and snakes.  Here in Texas we can open carry and conceal carry with a one day class, but instead of worrying about gangsters, I'm thinking of the best snake and skunk gun when I roll up to them in the high grass.  Maybe pepper spray even works better than bullets for them, but haven't had to try yet.

    Good luck .....do you best to learn verbal judo....might not just help you in the hood, but also in your purchase and lease negotiations.

    9Reply
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