Big problem tenant is threatening....again

Big problem tenant is threatening....again

Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

I have a huge problem tenant.....I'm not going to go into all of the details. 

Anyway, there are 3 ways for tenants to pay the rent: Give it to me in person (because I used to live half a block from the creative community, where I own 10 units), pay via zelle or go to any Wells Fargo and deposit into the rent account. 

Tenant seemed to have closed her own bank account it seems, since she used to use Zelle. Now she's asking me for my address to mail the rent. I told her that she can submit to any Wells Fargo. She then wrote that she's already left town and there's a money order in her unit. I responded that I would not enter her unit (as she has previously set me up with the code enforcement officer and then tried to extort me, saying that she just wants to see me in front of a judge, unless I can offer her some incentive to not go to court). So, I won't enter her unit. She wrote back:"Thanks for your help, b*tch!" It's illegal to not give the address to a tenant. 

Is that so? If I were to open a P.O.Box today, just for her, would that be enough? I really don't want her to mail the rent (plus it doesn't make sense that there's supposedly a money order in her unit and she's out of town and wants to mail another money order to me?" I know she has to be back in town for her trial, which starts Dec 2nd, so, there's no reason for her to do this, unless she's trying to set me up in some way. 

Sorry for the longwinded back story: Do I need to offer her my physical address and can she insist on mailing rent, when she can deposit at any Wells Fargo? I don't want rent mailed to me, because it's too easy for tenant to say that they mailed, but I didn't receive . I also don't want to open a P.O.Box. unless I have to. 

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Nicole A.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y

Sorry to hear you're having troubles again. So, I would not say it's "illegal" to not have a mailing address, but then again I don't know your local laws. I still would be surprised. However, it would probably be pretty standard to have a mailing address. I would not recommend your house address, so yeah, get a PO Box or something cheap.

But here's what will happen next. She will claim she mailed the rent. It won't arrive at all or it will arrive late. You won't be able to read the postmarked date easily if at all. So you again will be the evil landlord charging late fees or filing for rent court.

So just do not engage her whenever possible. She has agreed to pay via Zelle or Wells Fargo, she needs to just do that. Your responses to her can be charging late fees and/or rent court. But there is no need to get into debates with her. It's a waste of your time and you're just getting abused with the threats and name-calling.

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  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Sorry to hear you're having troubles again. So, I would not say it's "illegal" to not have a mailing address, but then again I don't know your local laws. I still would be surprised. However, it would probably be pretty standard to have a mailing address. I would not recommend your house address, so yeah, get a PO Box or something cheap.

    But here's what will happen next. She will claim she mailed the rent. It won't arrive at all or it will arrive late. You won't be able to read the postmarked date easily if at all. So you again will be the evil landlord charging late fees or filing for rent court.

    So just do not engage her whenever possible. She has agreed to pay via Zelle or Wells Fargo, she needs to just do that. Your responses to her can be charging late fees and/or rent court. But there is no need to get into debates with her. It's a waste of your time and you're just getting abused with the threats and name-calling.

  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    To add to my last comment, I would recommend you become very familiar with your local laws. They're probably easily found online. This way, you can be confident when tenants make random claims about what is and isn't legal as they try to bully you.

  • Bill HamptonBusiness Member
    Accredited Investment Fiduciary, AIF®, Financial Planner, Tax Strategist, Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 979 votes
    6y

    Try www.cozy.co. Tenants can pay rent through bank or credit card. It's free for landlords. 

    Good luck 

    Hampton Tax and Financial Services LLC4.7106 Reviews
  • Bill HamptonBusiness Member
    Accredited Investment Fiduciary, AIF®, Financial Planner, Tax Strategist, Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 979 votes
    6y

    And get a post office box asap. It's a tax deduction. Don't give her your address. 

    Hampton Tax and Financial Services LLC4.7106 Reviews
  • Real Estate Broker · Auburn, WA · Member since 2015 · 151 posts · 106 votes
    6y

    One would have to ask, WHAT IS IN THE CONTRACT? You need an address in a contract in order to make payments because not all people have computers, e-mail or these things. Every renter I have done business with has an address to send their payment.

    If you check your local renter laws, I believe you can have OPTIONS for the tenants such as (pay on-line, auto pays or PO Box address) for them to pay their rent. DO NOT EVER give tenants your personal address! WHY? Because you could be renting to a whack job that is just about ready to go off about something and especially if they are a problem child or human.

    I've had issues like yourself and when the payment is not there on the 5th of the month, I send over the eviction company and they deal with it! I used to do that stuff but, got to dangerous. Look at your local laws and go from there. good luck.

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    I just got a P.O. Box and gave that to her, but stated that she could not use that for rental payments. 

    She can either use Zelle (which she has done, incldg this month) or deposit at any Wells Fargo. She has 2 cars, so, she can't claim that she doesn't have transportation to the bank. 

    My lease states that rent can be paid at an address designated by me and which can periodically change. So, I have designated Wells Fargo as my agent for receipt of rent. 

    @Bill Hampton - cozy wouldn't do any good, if she closed her bank account. I like Zelle online, because the transfer is instantaneous and I understand Cozy takes several days. 

    @Bill Hamptonundefined

  • Member since 2019 · 295 posts · 159 votes
    6y

    @Michaela G. I’ve never let any of my tenants know my address and I set it up at the bank with specific numbers for the tenant and they deposit it into that specific account only they know the numbers to. Don’t ever give a tenant your address you will regret it makes it easier for them or their lawyer to sue you.

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Jermell Shavers , this was a special situation in that I set up a creative community and I was on site all day long and it was my personal involvement that got this off the ground. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I had been 'only' management. And since I was living right there, it wasn't possible to avoid them knowing my address. 

    I now have a p.o.box and that's all she got

  • Member since 2019 · 295 posts · 159 votes
    6y

    @Michaela G. Awesome better to avoid crazy my tenants sometimes ask me where I live I say oh abiut 1 hour away lol

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6y

    What is a creative community ? Sounds like a hippy commune . Why are you putting up with this foolishness ? You went in front of the judge before with this idiot ? Why on earth did you keep them after that ? 

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    No, I won't renew her lease, but unfortunately, it only runs out March 31st. I don't have language in the lease about 'not cursing and abusing landlord etc', so, I can't really do much else. 

  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    She said she can't use the PO Box address? Why am I not shocked. lol
    FIle for rent court/eviction. Do not talk to her. Let the court paperwork do the talking. If she pays in the meantime, then the court/eviction will simply be canceled. But think of filing as your "insurance" to get rent and it will also start to set a new tone with her when she realizes you mean business and you can't be sucked into her BS communications.

  • Investor · Topeka, KS · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    I certainly don't know the history here, but it seems totally reasonable to provide a mailing address for tenants to mail rent to.  In fact, I go out of my way to make paying me rent as easy as possible. I have Paypal, Venmo, local bank account, P.O. box.  Rent still has to be paid on time.  If rent is late by the fifth and I get the rent in the mail on the 7th then they are charged 2 days of late fees.  In addition, on the 6th they get a 3 day pay or quit notice, to begin the process of eviction for non payment of rent.

    Remember in every interaction with your tenant either you are training them to be the type of tenant you need or they are training you to be the type of landlord they need.

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    She paid November rent. She's now talking about December rent, which isn't even due. 

    I just moved a couple of months ago and it really didn't even occur to me to give a new address, because noone ever mailed the rent to me. It's always being sent via Zelle or deposited with Wells Fargo. Has never been a problem. And both parties have proof of date of payment, when they deposit or send via zelle. She has been using Zelle , so, the only thing I can imagine, is that she closed her bank account, because she's likely going to have a judgment against her from that trial. 

    I don't want to have a money order mailed. Have been there, done that. They claim they mailed it and then it doesn't arrive and then it's supposedly 30 days that they have to wait for the post office to replace the money order etc. I don't even want that situation come up. It's really easy to pay at the bank, if she doesn't want to use zelle. There are branches everywhere. If she no longer has an account, she won't be able to use any of the other electronic transfer options. 

    I've just had such a horrible history with her (and I've offered her several times that I'll gladly let her out of her lease and give her her deposit back.....she won't) that her asking me for my address is setting up such huge red flags. I live 700' off the main road and trees all around me. If something happened here, nobody would hear. I don't want to give her my home address.

  • Ned J.Pro Member
    Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    My only comment is about not giving a tenant your address...... in this day and age, all they need is your name and a computer and they can track you down if they want...pretty easy to do. A couple of basic steps that take more effort than reading it off a piece of paper you gave them, but don't think having a PO box keeps your location anonymous....... not with todays info on the internet.....
  • Property Manager · Syracuse, NY · Member since 2016 · 601 posts · 384 votes
    6y

    Holy cow, this tenant would be out on the street if they talked to me like that. 

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Nicole A.:

    She said she can't use the PO Box address? Why am I not shocked. lol
    FIle for rent court/eviction. Do not talk to her. Let the court paperwork do the talking. If she pays in the meantime, then the court/eviction will simply be canceled. But think of filing as your "insurance" to get rent and it will also start to set a new tone with her when she realizes you mean business and you can't be sucked into her BS communications.

    I said that she can't use the po box to send rent. Mailing is too much of a 'he said/she said' thing. And I don't understand why she would want to? She won't have proof that I received. She can just go to any Wells Fargo and pay, if she doesn't want to use Zelle.  

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ned J.:

    My only comment is about not giving a tenant your address...... in this day and age, all they need is your name and a computer and they can track you down if they want...pretty easy to do. A couple of basic steps that take more effort than reading it off a piece of paper you gave them, but don't think having a PO box keeps your location anonymous....... not with todays info on the internet.....

    You're absolutely right, but then it's more proof that she went above and beyond......I'm collecting everything, as I expect some retaliation, when I'll give her her 60 days notice that I won't renew her lease.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Shakopee, MN · Member since 2015 · 985 posts · 374 votes
    6y

    Yikes that tenant sounds like she needs an attitude adjustment. 
    She is looking for any excuse to not pay rent and cause you an inconvenience.

    Just keep telling yourself it's only 4 more months and she is gone.  

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ronald Starusnak:

    Holy cow, this tenant would be out on the street if they talked to me like that. 

    I'd love to, but on what basis?  

  • Property Manager · Syracuse, NY · Member since 2016 · 601 posts · 384 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Michaela G.:
    Originally posted by @Ronald Starusnak:

    Holy cow, this tenant would be out on the street if they talked to me like that. 

    I'd love to, but on what basis?  

    You said they have a trial? Do you have a crime addendum in your lease? We have so much in our lease that we can almost always find something to begin an eviction unless they're a good tenant and then we wouldn't want to anyways. If the payment is 3 days late we evict, if landscaping isn't upkept we evict, obviously not always but we do everything we can to protect ourselves from destructive tenants.

    Maintenance

    Landlord shall have the responsibility to maintain the major items of the property such as the roof and siding. Tenant is responsible for all other items such as appliances, flooring, paint, counters, plumbing, electrical, HVAC, porches & decks, gutters, etc.

    Property Insurance

    Tenant shall be responsible for acquiring and maintaining the appropriate insurance for their interests in the property located on the Premises. Tenant shall be required to add xxx as a certificate holder & additionally insured on the policy.

    Use Of Premises

    Tenant shall occupy and use the Premises as a dwelling unit. Tenant shall notify Landlord of any anticipated extended absence from the Premises not later than the first (1st) day of the extended absence.

    Dangerous Materials

    Tenant shall not keep or have on the Premises any article of thing of a dangerous, flammable, or explosive character that might substantially increase the danger of fire on the Premises, or that might be considered hazardous by a responsible insurance company, unless the prior written consent of Landlord is obtained and proof of adequate insurance protection is provided by Tenant to Landlord.

    CRIME FREE LEASE ADDENDUM

    In consideration of the execution of a lease of the dwelling unit or renewal of the lease, Owner and Resident agree as follows:

    1. Resident, and any member of the resident's household, guest(s) or other person(s) on the premises with the resident's consent shall not engage in criminal activity, including drug-related criminal activity. "Drug-related criminal activity" means the illegal manufacture, sale, distribution, use, or possession with intent to manufacture, sell, distribute, or use of a controlled Substance (as defined in Sections 1 through 42 of the Controlled Substance Act [30-3 1 -1 NMSA]).

    2. Resident, any member of the resident's household, guest(s) or other person(s) on the premises with the resident's consent shall not engage in any act intended to facilitate criminal activity, including drug-related criminal activity, on or about the said premise.

    3. Resident or members of the household will not permit the dwelling unit to be used for, or to facilitate criminal activity, including drug-related criminal activity, regardless or whether the individual engaging in such activity is a member of the household, or a guest.

    4. Resident, any member of the resident's household, guests(s), or another person(s) on the premises with the resident's consent shall not engage in the unlawful manufacturing, selling, using, storing, keeping, or giving of a controlled Substance whether on or about the dwelling unit or premises.

    5. Resident, any member of the resident's household, or a guest or another person on the premises with the resident's consent shall not engage in any illegal activity, including but not limited to prostitution, criminal street gang activity, threatening or intimidating assault, or tile unlawful discharge of firearms, on or about the dwelling unit premises, or any breach of the lease that otherwise jeopardizes the health, safety and welfare of the landlord, his agent or other tenant or involving imminent serious property damage.

    6. VIOLATION OF THIS ADDENDUM OCCURRING ON OR NEAR THE PROPERTY SHALL BE A MATERIAL VIOLATION OF THE LEASE AND CAUSE FOR TERMINATION OF TENANCY. Certain violations of this addendum may be "Substantial Violations" as defined in the Uniform Owner-Resident Relations Act [47-8-1 to 47-8-51 NMSA 1978). It is understood that a single Substantial Violation is good cause for termination of the lease on as little as three days notice. Proof of violation shall not require criminal conviction or even arrest, but shall be by a preponderance of the evidence. 

    7. No provision of the lease shall diminish the Resident's obligations under this addendum.

    It is understood and agreed that a single violation shall be good cause for termination of the housing agreement. Unless otherwise provided by law, proof of violations shall not require criminal conviction, but shall be by the preponderance of the evidence.


    Tenant_________________

    Tenant:_________________

    Landlord:_______________

    Additional Requirements

    The following requirements are set-forth to ensure uniform appearance of the property and to ensure full compliance with local codes and expectations of the neighborhood.

    • Landscaping must be maintained: Shrubs, trees, flowerbeds, mulch beds, must be maintained. Landscaping must not be touching or growing into siding or foundation. Grass must be maintained under 4” in height.
    • Window Coverings: Curtains / Blinds / other items created specifically for this purpose are the only acceptable window coverings. (No blankets / sheets / etc.)
    • No exterior furniture outside unless being properly disposed of.
    • Vehicles must be parked in designated areas. No vehicles parked or stored on the lawn.
    • Porches / decks are not for additional storage. All exterior items on property must be designed for such use.
    • Trampolines & Swingsets must be approved by Landlord.
    • All vehicles must be registered & inspected with license plates. No abandoned vehicles.
    • Must periodically test smoke and c02 detectors and must not remove.
    • Guests that are staying over for more than a total of 21 nights within 1 year must be added to the lease.
    • Must maintain sidewalks per local code requirements. IE Shoveling sidewalk in winter.
    • Lease cannot be assigned or sublet.

    Tenant_________________

    Tenant:_________________

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ronald Starusnak:
    Originally posted by @Michaela G.:
    Originally posted by @Ronald Starusnak:

    Holy cow, this tenant would be out on the street if they talked to me like that. 

    I'd love to, but on what basis?  

    You said they have a trial? Do you have a crime addendum in your lease? We have so much in our lease that we can almost always find something to begin an eviction unless they're a good tenant and then we wouldn't want to anyways. If the payment is 3 days late we evict, if landscaping isn't upkept we evict, obviously not always but we do everything we can to protect ourselves from destructive tenants.

    Maintenance

    Landlord shall have the responsibility to maintain the major items of the property such as the roof and siding. Tenant is responsible for all other items such as appliances, flooring, paint, counters, plumbing, electrical, HVAC, porches & decks, gutters, etc.

    Property Insurance

    Tenant shall be responsible for acquiring and maintaining the appropriate insurance for their interests in the property located on the Premises. Tenant shall be required to add xxx as a certificate holder & additionally insured on the policy.

    Use Of Premises

    Tenant shall occupy and use the Premises as a dwelling unit. Tenant shall notify Landlord of any anticipated extended absence from the Premises not later than the first (1st) day of the extended absence.

    Dangerous Materials

    Tenant shall not keep or have on the Premises any article of thing of a dangerous, flammable, or explosive character that might substantially increase the danger of fire on the Premises, or that might be considered hazardous by a responsible insurance company, unless the prior written consent of Landlord is obtained and proof of adequate insurance protection is provided by Tenant to Landlord.

    CRIME FREE LEASE ADDENDUM

    In consideration of the execution of a lease of the dwelling unit or renewal of the lease, Owner and Resident agree as follows:

    1. Resident, and any member of the resident's household, guest(s) or other person(s) on the premises with the resident's consent shall not engage in criminal activity, including drug-related criminal activity. "Drug-related criminal activity" means the illegal manufacture, sale, distribution, use, or possession with intent to manufacture, sell, distribute, or use of a controlled Substance (as defined in Sections 1 through 42 of the Controlled Substance Act [30-3 1 -1 NMSA]).

    2. Resident, any member of the resident's household, guest(s) or other person(s) on the premises with the resident's consent shall not engage in any act intended to facilitate criminal activity, including drug-related criminal activity, on or about the said premise.

    3. Resident or members of the household will not permit the dwelling unit to be used for, or to facilitate criminal activity, including drug-related criminal activity, regardless or whether the individual engaging in such activity is a member of the household, or a guest.

    4. Resident, any member of the resident's household, guests(s), or another person(s) on the premises with the resident's consent shall not engage in the unlawful manufacturing, selling, using, storing, keeping, or giving of a controlled Substance whether on or about the dwelling unit or premises.

    5. Resident, any member of the resident's household, or a guest or another person on the premises with the resident's consent shall not engage in any illegal activity, including but not limited to prostitution, criminal street gang activity, threatening or intimidating assault, or tile unlawful discharge of firearms, on or about the dwelling unit premises, or any breach of the lease that otherwise jeopardizes the health, safety and welfare of the landlord, his agent or other tenant or involving imminent serious property damage.

    6. VIOLATION OF THIS ADDENDUM OCCURRING ON OR NEAR THE PROPERTY SHALL BE A MATERIAL VIOLATION OF THE LEASE AND CAUSE FOR TERMINATION OF TENANCY. Certain violations of this addendum may be "Substantial Violations" as defined in the Uniform Owner-Resident Relations Act [47-8-1 to 47-8-51 NMSA 1978). It is understood that a single Substantial Violation is good cause for termination of the lease on as little as three days notice. Proof of violation shall not require criminal conviction or even arrest, but shall be by a preponderance of the evidence. 

    7. No provision of the lease shall diminish the Resident's obligations under this addendum.

    It is understood and agreed that a single violation shall be good cause for termination of the housing agreement. Unless otherwise provided by law, proof of violations shall not require criminal conviction, but shall be by the preponderance of the evidence.


    Tenant_________________

    Tenant:_________________

    Landlord:_______________

    Additional Requirements

    The following requirements are set-forth to ensure uniform appearance of the property and to ensure full compliance with local codes and expectations of the neighborhood.

    • Landscaping must be maintained: Shrubs, trees, flowerbeds, mulch beds, must be maintained. Landscaping must not be touching or growing into siding or foundation. Grass must be maintained under 4” in height.
    • Window Coverings: Curtains / Blinds / other items created specifically for this purpose are the only acceptable window coverings. (No blankets / sheets / etc.)
    • No exterior furniture outside unless being properly disposed of.
    • Vehicles must be parked in designated areas. No vehicles parked or stored on the lawn.
    • Porches / decks are not for additional storage. All exterior items on property must be designed for such use.
    • Trampolines & Swingsets must be approved by Landlord.
    • All vehicles must be registered & inspected with license plates. No abandoned vehicles.
    • Must periodically test smoke and c02 detectors and must not remove.
    • Guests that are staying over for more than a total of 21 nights within 1 year must be added to the lease.
    • Must maintain sidewalks per local code requirements. IE Shoveling sidewalk in winter.
    • Lease cannot be assigned or sublet.

    Tenant_________________

    Tenant:_________________

    Thank you for all of your suggestions. Unfortunately, nothing is applicable. Her trial I found out about when googling her, after she called the code inspector on me. It's civil. From what I read, she drove without car insurance and hit someone. Her jury trial is starting Dec. 2nd. I only read what was online, which looks like an easy one to win for the plaintiff, but you never know. That accident was before she became my tenant. She always pays her rent. That's what her past landlord said as well. I think she was trying to set them up, by not allowing repair people in, but got caught off guard, when they sold the house and didn't renew her lease. I've recently spoken more indepth with that landlord and that was the only way to get her out, she said. 

    I only have 4 more months, but I am worried about her suddenly stumbling on the way to mailbox or whatever. 

  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Don't worry about that stuff. Yes, people can try and sue you for anything, even something they basically made up. But if your property is kept in safe condition, she won't have much of a case. If you haven't already, to help give you better peace of mind (in general, not just because of her) get an umbrella policy. They don't cost much.

    Enjoy Thanksgiving! Don't let thoughts of her what-ifs cause you to not be truly present with your family and friends. It'll all be fine.

  • Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    .....and why haven't you evicted her yet? Based on how she has interacted with you I would not give her my address simply because I would not want that person knowing where I live.

  • Member since 2019 · 29 posts · 14 votes
    6y

    @Michaela G. I am so sorry you are going through this. Hang in there. Don’t be afraid to file a police report and notify her (in writing cc’ing the police department) that you feel threatened by her behavior. She sounds like a bully. Don’t give her your home address.

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