Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
I have a huge problem tenant.....I'm not going to go into all of the details.
Anyway, there are 3 ways for tenants to pay the rent: Give it to me in person (because I used to live half a block from the creative community, where I own 10 units), pay via zelle or go to any Wells Fargo and deposit into the rent account.
Tenant seemed to have closed her own bank account it seems, since she used to use Zelle. Now she's asking me for my address to mail the rent. I told her that she can submit to any Wells Fargo. She then wrote that she's already left town and there's a money order in her unit. I responded that I would not enter her unit (as she has previously set me up with the code enforcement officer and then tried to extort me, saying that she just wants to see me in front of a judge, unless I can offer her some incentive to not go to court). So, I won't enter her unit. She wrote back:"Thanks for your help, b*tch!" It's illegal to not give the address to a tenant.
Is that so? If I were to open a P.O.Box today, just for her, would that be enough? I really don't want her to mail the rent (plus it doesn't make sense that there's supposedly a money order in her unit and she's out of town and wants to mail another money order to me?" I know she has to be back in town for her trial, which starts Dec 2nd, so, there's no reason for her to do this, unless she's trying to set me up in some way.
Sorry for the longwinded back story: Do I need to offer her my physical address and can she insist on mailing rent, when she can deposit at any Wells Fargo? I don't want rent mailed to me, because it's too easy for tenant to say that they mailed, but I didn't receive . I also don't want to open a P.O.Box. unless I have to.
Sorry to hear you're having troubles again. So, I would not say it's "illegal" to not have a mailing address, but then again I don't know your local laws. I still would be surprised. However, it would probably be pretty standard to have a mailing address. I would not recommend your house address, so yeah, get a PO Box or something cheap.
But here's what will happen next. She will claim she mailed the rent. It won't arrive at all or it will arrive late. You won't be able to read the postmarked date easily if at all. So you again will be the evil landlord charging late fees or filing for rent court.
So just do not engage her whenever possible. She has agreed to pay via Zelle or Wells Fargo, she needs to just do that. Your responses to her can be charging late fees and/or rent court. But there is no need to get into debates with her. It's a waste of your time and you're just getting abused with the threats and name-calling.
@Michaela G. I utilize a property management company for my rentals. They properly screen, interview and select good tenants for my properties. As far as rent, it is deposited via a portal and into my bank account each month. This is clearly printed on the tenants contract. It lessens the headache. If need be, you should get a P. O. Box, as ridiculous as it may sound, your tenant will not argue the fact that you're not providing sufficient ways to receive rent. You have less contact with the tenant by utilizing any Property Management Company and they will deal with any issues the tenant has. Lastly do not renew the lease. Chalk it up for experience and move on. Good luck!
Offer $500 cash to move out by certain date. $100 cash now in good faith and the other $400 when she's out and signs an exit agreement. Less painful then legal fees, harrasment and you can get a new tenant.
Offer $500 cash to move out by certain date. $100 cash now in good faith and the other $400 when she's out and signs an exit agreement. Less painful then legal fees, harrasment and you can get a new tenant.
All the best,
John
Unfortunately, that wouldn't work for this tenant. She has not had problem paying the rent. Has always paid on the 1st or even a day before. It would take a lot of money to buy her out and I'm not willing to do that. I have way below market rents, because I'm in a low-income neighborhood. I get more than I would with the standard tenants here, but it's way below other areas that are that central in town. She's paying 875 for a 3/1 duplex. To get another 3/1 in town would be 1200 and up. Yes, I'm low, but I'm planning to sell everything to a developer in 3 years and I bought really, really low. So, I'm good with that for now.
.....and why haven't you evicted her yet? Based on how she has interacted with you I would not give her my address simply because I would not want that person knowing where I live.
You can't just evict people unless there's a valid reason. Unfortunately, cussing out a landlord does not qualify. In addition there's now a new law in Georgia where you can't evict a tenant that has called code enforcement on the landlord. It's called a retaliation eviction and can get you sued. She's probably hoping for that. I really think she's trying to set me up for something that gets her a big payday.
She already tried to extort me, because I'm undocumented. She thought that would make me scared to go in front of a judge. She didn't realize that I'm a documented undocumented. Homeland Security knows everything about me. They have a big file, including my tax returns. I was screwed over by an immigration attorney 25 years ago. He got disbarred and I lost my legal status. DHS is ok with me, but there's just no way to get legal status again........She didn't realize that I don't have to worry, so she tried to get me to pay up. I didn't play
Shoot, I'm just reading up on this new law and it states that even ending a lease on a tenant that called code enforcement is seen as retaliation and the tenant can take the landlord to court and get damages.
Sorry to hear about all the challenges. Even doing all our homework its sometimes unavoidable. I also like the idea on cash for keys, but worry it can sometimes send the wrong message; if tenant is acting out of principal and has the potential risk of suggesting wrongdoing.
Nobody likes to pay legal fees, but looking back on my eviction, I would spend the money on the eviction again to remove the issue so I can continue forward. I'm not a perfect landlord, I don't always get perfect tenants, but I think its reasonable to draw the line. Most of my properties are in MN which is also a tenant friendly state. At lease end tenants don't always move out, so sometimes its better to start the process sooner than later.
Question: Maybe I am missing something, but if she isn't due on rent doesn't she need to be late before there is really an issue? If its December rent, doesn't she have a few weeks? I think your right, don't take the bait and just apply some patience to see what happens.
Sorry to hear about all the challenges. Even doing all our homework its sometimes unavoidable. I also like the idea on cash for keys, but worry it can sometimes send the wrong message; if tenant is acting out of principal and has the potential risk of suggesting wrongdoing.
Nobody likes to pay legal fees, but looking back on my eviction, I would spend the money on the eviction again to remove the issue so I can continue forward. I'm not a perfect landlord, I don't always get perfect tenants, but I think its reasonable to draw the line. Most of my properties are in MN which is also a tenant friendly state. At lease end tenants don't always move out, so sometimes its better to start the process sooner than later.
Question: Maybe I am missing something, but if she isn't due on rent doesn't she need to be late before there is really an issue? If its December rent, doesn't she have a few weeks? I think your right, don't take the bait and just apply some patience to see what happens.
My best.
You're right! It's not an issue, yet, but she's making it one, because I didn't give her my home address. I feel that she's actively looking for something to sue me on. I'm walking on egg shells and I'm seeing everything as a red flag in regards to her.
@Michaela G. What about handing this one tenant off to a property manager? Otherwise, you are being very patient. I would give her notice NOW that you will not be renewing her lease. That way if she does call code on you, you gave her notice BEFORE she did that and therefore you can argue the non-renewal is not due to her calling code (should she do that). You can simply tell her that you wanted to giver her lots of time to find a new unit.
@Michaela G. What about handing this one tenant off to a property manager? Otherwise, you are being very patient. I would give her notice NOW that you will not be renewing her lease. That way if she does call code on you, you gave her notice BEFORE she did that and therefore you can argue the non-renewal is not due to her calling code (should she do that). You can simply tell her that you wanted to giver her lots of time to find a new unit.
She had already called code on me, so, it's too late. I had already given her verbal notice a month into her tenancy, that I wouldn't renew her lease. So, she might have pulled all of these little things together for code, to try to avoid me not renewing her lease. I have offered her several times to let her out of her lease, if she's unhappy to live here, but she refuses to move. Since I now have several emails, in which she abuses me with calling me 'b*tch" and "f you" etc, I should be able to use those for non-renewal of the lease, if she tries to fight it.
Are u single? U sound like u living very scared. Marry man with big muscles. Same time u get citizenship. U think im joking im not joking.
You clearly have no idea how that works. Once you don't have legal status, you can not get legal status while in this country. Any application has to be done from your home country. If someone has been in this country without status for more than 6 months, they would get an immediate ban to apply for anything within 10 years.
I've lived and worked and still work in a D- neighborhood for many years, when most investors were too scared to set foot into the area, so, the assumptions you openly make about me, say more about you than they do about me.
Wow thanks for sharing this, it sounds awful, and it also sounds like you’re dealing with it very very well. Less advice than support here. I might consider having the inspector write out an affidavit of the sequence of events and her attitude so if you do wind up in some sort of hearing that will probably carry a lot of weight. I also don’t think it’s a coincidence she’s doing this while or other trailers coming to a head. One she may have some fake plant up so we knew to pay off the other judgment or to just taking her stress out on you for some kind of feeling of control. Maybe worth a conversation with a lawyer to go over some hypotheticals but looks like just writing it out is the best strategy right now, yes?
I will recommend using a property management software or a property manager . Tenant cloud is really good.. Also I don't buy in C/D class neighbourhood...simply because of these kinds of behaviours
Was the code issue that she called on something minor? Was the cursing and swearing done before that? Can you give her 90 days notice that you are non renewing? Even with the calling on the code violation, I would think you would have enough evidence that she was simply abusing you verbally, that you gave her the full lease time, and didnt want to renew because of her actions toward you.
Was the code issue that she called on something minor? Was the cursing and swearing done before that? Can you give her 90 days notice that you are non renewing? Even with the calling on the code violation, I would think you would have enough evidence that she was simply abusing you verbally, that you gave her the full lease time, and didnt want to renew because of her actions toward you.
Things she told me about when she was moving in. We agreed that she would call me when she was home and I'd fix: an outlet wasn't working, the hinge on a closet door needed a screw tightened and a lower window sash wasn't closing right. I had tools in my car for days and she never called and I figured it was no longer a problem (she's handy and has tools herself). She never brought those things up again. Not when I was there and we were fixing the dryer, not when I replaced her fridge, not when my carpenter was there with me to put extra support in the kitchen). And since I had heard from the previous landlord, that she always complained about a million things and then wouldn't let repair people in, after they had set it up, so that they had to pay for the service call anyway, a lot of her things there were never repaired due to her actions, I realized that it was going the same way with her here.
Then she called code enforcement and they went through and came up with stuff that she never mentioned to me. This is an early 1900's unit and while renovated 3 years ago, it will never be perfect and there will always be things that you can find, if you look for them. I had discussed with her what the other landlord had said and she assured me that she would communicate with me. She said her upper cabinet wasn't level against the wall and I tried various times to set up an appointment with her to put a few extra screws into the studs. Should would either not respond to text, then read email a couple days later and say it's too short notice and then my last emails would just get ignored. I finally wrote that I can't fix things, if she doesn't respond to me. No response.
I'm ok with the inspector. Had forwarded all of her nasty emails to him and his supervisor and I fixed what was written up last week. She jut seems to look for new things to create problems with me and now I'm taking any communication from her as a potential red flag and do what I need to do to protect me. I respond factually to her and not let her goad me into the kind of assaults she's been doing to me.
I would imagine that if she signed the lease and agreed to your payment terms, she has to legally follow them. It was a binding contract she agreed to. I suggest you let her mail the rent to the PO box but make sure it has tracking - proof of signature required.
So, as long as you are ok with your legal status, meaning you can go to court without any of that causing an issue, then I believe you are blowing this out of proportion and handling it wrong.
For starters, your lease needs an address where a tenant can send you documents. I am going to guess Wells Fargo does not offer mail collection services. In WI, the rental agreement must provide the mailing address of a physical location (not a PO box) for this purpose. No matter what your local law calls for, it is unreasonable and frankly silly, to fail to provide a mailing address for the tenant to send documents. With small-time landlords who do not operate out of an office or hire management, this ends up being their home address in WI. Check your local laws.
As far as paying rent (check your local law), I see no reason why a tenant would not pay according to the rental agreement, end of story. That said, it is wise to make sure your rental agreement allows a tenant to pay conveniently, or you set yourself up for shenanigans. My advice is to accept all forms of payment (maybe not bitcoin or 20 chickens - lol).
As far as calling code enforcement well, all you can do, and should have been doing, is keeping your property up to code in the first place. Hopefully the tenant notified you first before calling code enforcement however, it actually sounds like they have reason to claim (be it true or not) it is difficult to notify you. In any case, once code enforcement is involved, work to fix the violations as quickly as possible. I find it hard to believe it is impossible to evict a tenant in the event any complaint was filed ever in the history of the tenancy, as that too would be unreasonable - there must be some sort of timeline or criteria that cleans the slate on that score.
Finally, moving forward, I would go back and create a timeline of events, including any documentation you have of the tenant being unreasonable themselves. While it is true it is not illegal to use colorful language, it is also not unreasonable you might choose not to renew a lease with a tenant that acts with that sort of contempt for others (most states do not even require a reason for non-renewal). I would of course document all future contempt as well. That said, make sure to check your own behavior/policy to ensure the outbursts were not frustrating situations that your poor policies provoked!!!
When you finally get to the point of the non-renewal, hopefully you will have all your ducks in a row - violations are ancient history, rent is up to date, notifications of non-renewal were appropriately made.
As a last point, I think you made a mistake by informing the tenant you were not going to renew after the first month. That set you up for 11 months of a disgruntled tenant that possibly decided to use that time to scheme against you. If this tenant ever threatens you in any capacity, do not hesitate to file a complaint with the police, as that will provide a history in the event they do make good on the threat AND knowing that, will serve as a deterrent for them to actually do anything.
While nut cases are out there, most people are more talk than anything. Damage to property is actually the most likely threat you face. Therefore, stop engaging with this person. Keep it 100% business, 0% nonsense and let the rest fall where it may. You need to do some homework as far as your local landlord/tenant laws go.
PS - Month to Month leases help with this sort of stuff.
Was the code issue that she called on something minor? Was the cursing and swearing done before that? Can you give her 90 days notice that you are non renewing? Even with the calling on the code violation, I would think you would have enough evidence that she was simply abusing you verbally, that you gave her the full lease time, and didnt want to renew because of her actions toward you.
Things she told me about when she was moving in. We agreed that she would call me when she was home and I'd fix: an outlet wasn't working, the hinge on a closet door needed a screw tightened and a lower window sash wasn't closing right. I had tools in my car for days and she never called and I figured it was no longer a problem (she's handy and has tools herself). She never brought those things up again. Not when I was there and we were fixing the dryer, not when I replaced her fridge, not when my carpenter was there with me to put extra support in the kitchen). And since I had heard from the previous landlord, that she always complained about a million things and then wouldn't let repair people in, after they had set it up, so that they had to pay for the service call anyway, a lot of her things there were never repaired due to her actions, I realized that it was going the same way with her here.
Then she called code enforcement and they went through and came up with stuff that she never mentioned to me. This is an early 1900's unit and while renovated 3 years ago, it will never be perfect and there will always be things that you can find, if you look for them. I had discussed with her what the other landlord had said and she assured me that she would communicate with me. She said her upper cabinet wasn't level against the wall and I tried various times to set up an appointment with her to put a few extra screws into the studs. Should would either not respond to text, then read email a couple days later and say it's too short notice and then my last emails would just get ignored. I finally wrote that I can't fix things, if she doesn't respond to me. No response.
I'm ok with the inspector. Had forwarded all of her nasty emails to him and his supervisor and I fixed what was written up last week. She jut seems to look for new things to create problems with me and now I'm taking any communication from her as a potential red flag and do what I need to do to protect me. I respond factually to her and not let her goad me into the kind of assaults she's been doing to me.
LOL - you said you weren't going into all the details - lol.
Well this tells the story a bit clearer. She is playing you both ways. I will guess that a tenant does not need to be present, nor do you need their permission to enter the unit in your state, as it is in most places. That means you do not ask her when you can come in to make repairs, you tell her when it's going to happen. She is playing you by asking for repairs and then going MIA when it comes time to schedule them. You will either get in trouble for not making timely repairs or not providing appropriate notice of entry. She has put you in this spot and so any courtesy that might have previously been afforded (like coordinating a mutually agreed upon time for entry and repairs) will stop and that is her fault, not yours - except she won't see it that way will she!!!
Take a breath. Stop over-thinking it. Know your laws. Follow your policy and laws. Move straight ahead with or without her. Set her free as soon as you can.
@Michaela G.wow seems like you’re in a bit of a pickle there. Seems like no matter what you do this tenant will turn it around and make you look like the bad guy (P.O.Box or not) remember one very important thing rental units are all hit or miss with the tenants. Seems like up until now you’ve been flowing on smooth street. This bump in the road is a big one however you will get through. You will definitely need thicker skin and make sure everything is being documented. This tenant will definitely spread bad reviews about you your company and quite possibly your dog is the tenant has the information too. Lol. Just keep in mind she will do this to the next landlord and I’m pretty sure she’s done it to her last one too so don’t take it personal it’s just the price of doing business with tenants. G-luck
Here is my take - you have provided several methods of getting you payment. It is her responsibility to get it to you on time. Even if she does mail you a money order it is still her responsibility to get you the rent on time. If it doesn't show up you give her the 3 day pay or quit notice (at least in Kansas) and when you don't receive it after 3 days you evict.
Ive done collections for 16 years prior to now, so if she wanted your address, she could google you and within a few minutes find your address, so I'd just give her your address. she clearly is stressed if she has court issues. typically I like to take the path of least resistance. I would give her the mailing address but let her you need it sent with some sort of tracking number. like fed x or ups. let her know you have a ton of issues with your mail so she doesnt take it personally. Usually if they have the money, they might not want to give it up so if you let them slide they may try to burn you. you h
ave 1 of 2 options, put a 3 day notice on her door, or make it easy for her to pay you. She sounds like an idiot and Id try to ditch her as a tenant as soon as possible. sometimes you just need to put them in their place - I've told tenants "you dont have to live here" rentals are super strong and you can flip the unit, then keep her deposit. she can suck it if she wants to get personal. lol
Sounds like she's done this before. If you're afraid of non-renewal with her, you can always give her notice and raise the rent as much as legally possible, and do not give her another lease to sign, just go month to month. I wouldnt give her your address if it was me. Theres many ways for her to get payment to you, if she wants to. If she sends mail via the USPS, she can get a tracking number to a PO Box.
The most important thing at this stage is DOCUMENTATION......... keep a very detail account of everything that has occurred and when....dates, times, emails, text etc etc. I would not verbally interact with this tenant again..... EVERYTHING is in written form where you can document the interaction.
Legally you do not need permission to enter the property you own. You only need to give written legal notice of when you will be entering the unit with ample time before you do it. You do not need permission. So for any repairs, you tell her...in writing.... when the repairmen will be there and you meet them there..... knock and call tenant. If they don't answer, unlock and make your presence known...... if they aren't there then too bad....enter and do the work. I may even video it as documentation.
IF she proceeds with legal action, your best and only defense is that you followed your lease and the law and you have verifiable documentation that you did.