Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2020 · 25 posts · 10 votes
Where should I draw the line? Always, a few days before rent is due I get a maintenance request.
My tenant is a self-described handy person and he also works in an appliance repair and sales shop. He is the first tenant in my newly -remodeled SFH with all new appliances.
1st month, he let me know that the closet shelves fell down when he hung up his clothes so he went to Home Depot and purchased materials to fix them. I sent my apologies and discounted the rent by $100 to reimburse him for the materials.
2nd month, the bathroom vanities were leaking....totally legitimate repair request so I sent a plumber to fix them. While the plumber was there, he asked the plumber to fix some other small problem that was not discussed with me.
3rd month, he suddenly discovered that the brand new oven does not heat to the exact temperature. This time I went in person with an oven thermometer to test it for myself and also to make it not so easy for him. I also wanted him to pay full rent before I paid for another service call. The oven temp appeared to be off by about 40 degrees but otherwise works fine. I let him know I would get someone out to look at it and confirmed with him that this was not an urgent repair as he could still use the oven.
I scheduled a diagnostic for today and now the tenant wants to know if they are bringing parts, what parts he suggests they should bring, what he thinks the problem is, etc. I'm trying to keep this professional by using 3rd party maintenance but I do think this tenant is looking for problems and/or angling for me to discount rent.
Any advice on how seasoned landlords would handle this tyoe of tenant?
Real Estate Broker · Tampa Bay/St Petersburg, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y
This is all pretty normal and routine stuff.
It's also one of the challenges of self-managing. As a property manager, our maintenance staff is trained to say "put in a work order...I can't do anything until the manager and owner approve it". This stuff is going to happen when the tenant has a direct line of communication to you, but it also doesn't appear to be anything too dramatic or problematic. It's just #LandlordLife!
As far as the appliance repair, it's pretty easy to say "Look, I have no idea what parts they carry on their truck or whether they'll be able to make the repair in one visit. It's a warranty repair and they have to follow their policies and procedures." (Which he should understand if he is in the business).
It's also perfectly reasonable for you to put a written policy in place that any repairs the tenant wants to be reimbursed for have to be approved in advance, in writing, with a cap on the dollar amount.
And make sure you understand the liability associated with allowing the tenant to make repairs: https://vimeo.com/295658671
(Since you are in Florida, I highly recommend Evict TV (google it) - there are literally hundreds of free videos like the one above by an attorney on Florida-specific landlord-tenant topics!)
Real Estate Broker · Tampa Bay/St Petersburg, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y
This is all pretty normal and routine stuff.
It's also one of the challenges of self-managing. As a property manager, our maintenance staff is trained to say "put in a work order...I can't do anything until the manager and owner approve it". This stuff is going to happen when the tenant has a direct line of communication to you, but it also doesn't appear to be anything too dramatic or problematic. It's just #LandlordLife!
As far as the appliance repair, it's pretty easy to say "Look, I have no idea what parts they carry on their truck or whether they'll be able to make the repair in one visit. It's a warranty repair and they have to follow their policies and procedures." (Which he should understand if he is in the business).
It's also perfectly reasonable for you to put a written policy in place that any repairs the tenant wants to be reimbursed for have to be approved in advance, in writing, with a cap on the dollar amount.
And make sure you understand the liability associated with allowing the tenant to make repairs: https://vimeo.com/295658671
(Since you are in Florida, I highly recommend Evict TV (google it) - there are literally hundreds of free videos like the one above by an attorney on Florida-specific landlord-tenant topics!)
Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
6y
Hi Yolanda,
A brand new oven off by 40 degrees, maybe take that one back for another one, and test the new one.
I'd say that's basically a stove with no oven.
As far as the shelf, those little shelf kits are not tough enough for a rental (they fall down).
Having a wooden brace screwed or nailed to both the shelf and the wall on each end is much more robust.
Then if Clyde and Marie Tenant decide to stack some weighty things on the shelf, it's less likely to come tumbling down on little Maurice's head when he tries to climb on it.
Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2020 · 25 posts · 10 votes
6y
Thank you! I appreciate the reassurance that this is all normal and part of landlording. I am considering using a property manager for the renewal next year since this stuff causes me anxiety and trying to be a people pleaser is not good business. I will check out Evict TV; sounds like a great resource.
Rental Property Investor · SE Michigan · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 6k+ votes
6y
Fix what is broken. Keep it professional. Continue to use 3rd party people so your resident has no incentive to "find" items that are broken and you don't have liability issues as noted by @Jeff Copeland
"I also wanted him to pay full rent before I paid for another service call." Forcing a tenant to pay rent before you fix a problem with the property is a violation of the law almost everywhere. Doing that can get you in deep trouble.
If your plumber fixed things at the resident's request, that is a discussion you should have with the plumber.
Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y
Your tenant is training you. This is YOUR property and YOUR business, and you dictate the terms.
1st month - what kind of shelves were these? Did he overload them? Unfortunately, as part of a gesture of customer service, you inadvertently showed your tenant that you are willing to pay when "stuff happens" without following up to see which party is responsible. What does your lease say about such things? He should be the one apologizing (and paying) if he abused the shelving.
2nd month - this one you need to take on the chin because you were not clear with your tradesman. First off, you don't need a plumber for a leaking vanity. Handymen can do that just as easily. Also, your "rules of engagement" for your hired help should be clear with them, and that is that they are there to address a particular issue and nothing else, without your prior approval. I would just pay and learn the lesson for next time.
3rd month - I think I saw a Youtube video about this very thing - that being, oven temperatures are not very accurate. It could be "par for the course" for the industry, not sure, and unless this guy is a professional chef (which would be against the terms of my lease to run a business on the premises), this is really picky. Now, if this guy was rockstar tenant and never gave me an issue for the past 18 months, and this particular aspect of his brand new appliance bothered him, I might indulge him with a maintenance visit. But at this point, given the context during his short tenure, this tenant is officially a "pain the a**." This is total Pareto Principle. 80% (or more) of your time will probably be devoted to placating him over this minutiae.
Honestly, you've let him take control and it's time for your to reassert yourself. Here's what I would do. Absorb this additional cost of the appliance repair man and this oven issue, and then it's time for you to be ready to have a direct conversation with him. Something like this....
"Mr. Smith, I've spent a significant amount of time and effort addressing what you see as concerns in your completely renovated apartment. As I look at your maintenance requests, I can't help but wonder if you are are no longer happy living here. It seems the level of service you expect from your housing provider is at a much higher level than our company can support at this price point. We extended you a courtesy as a new tenant these last few months by addressing some of the concerns you had in your home, but unfortunately we are unable to continue to send maintenance staff out for repairs that do not involve safety or habitability concerns. We pride ourselves in offering quality units for people to call their home, and I would never want someone whom is dissatisfied with their living space here to feel like they have to stay out of contractual obligation, so I am willing to release you from your lease term early if you are not comfortable with our threshold of service."
Let him make the decision. He'll have to be happy with the level of service you are willing to provide, or he is free to take his rent money to what he sees as greener pastures. If he stays, be sure you stick to your guns, and then take a good look at the situation when his lease comes up for renewal.
I would also take some time to tighten up your lease provisions a bit if that is also a source of the confusion.
Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 861 posts · 1k+ votes
6y
The stove thing is pretty normal for basic ovens with a knob instead of digital settings. the ones I have, there is a small screw inside the oven knob you can use to adjust its accuracy. if you preheat the oven, then pull off the knob and look at the back, loosen that screw, adjust the knob so the line will match up with the temperature your oven thermometer says, then tighten it back up.
Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2020 · 25 posts · 10 votes
6y
@Wesley W. yes, I totally agree that he is attempting to train me. He is a savvy tenant and becoming very demanding. He has continued to mention small things that bother him in just the few months he has lived there: outside noise, that he bought a weed wacker for the yard, etc. I absolutely will take your advice and have a direct conversation with him at today's service call. Thank you so much for your advice!
Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2020 · 25 posts · 10 votes
6y
@Account Closed It is a digital stove. My point was really that he knows about these things...to the point that he wants to tell me to tell the service provider how to fix it. And it took over a month before he even "noticed" it. While these may be normal landlord issues, I think he has other motives or simply is an overly picky tenant.
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
6y
None of this stuff is a big deal, or even uncommon with a new rehab. However, it sounds like you might do well with a property manager if this kind of stuff causes you stress - especially with the first issue (the shelving). The proper chain of events would have been:
Tenant hangs clothes>clothes fall down>tenant notifies you via your trouble ticket system (formal, text, whatever) that shelving fell down > you fix or arrange for someone to fix shelving and thank tenant for letting you know.
Tenants don't get to just fix stuff on their own volition and then expect reimbursement, even if they're saving you trouble. We do not reimburse any repairs, period, without authorization prior to repairs being made. It is the rare instance where we even allow tenants to make repairs.
Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2020 · 25 posts · 10 votes
6y
@JD Martin I don't disagree that a property manager would ease my stress level. I will consider it down the road. For the shelving....he had ALREADY fixed it and let me know by sending me a picture. It was my error to react with a discount to the rent as reimbursement but I didn't know how else to handle it.
@JD Martin I don't disagree that a property manager would ease my stress level. I will consider it down the road. For the shelving....he had ALREADY fixed it and let me know by sending me a picture. It was my error to react with a discount to the rent as reimbursement but I didn't know how else to handle it.
That's OK - that's how you learn, usually, by doing things you wish you could do over! Now you'll know how to proceed next time a tenant fixes something without authorization :)
Where should I draw the line? Always, a few days before rent is due I get a maintenance request.
My tenant is a self-described handy person and he also works in an appliance repair and sales shop. He is the first tenant in my newly -remodeled SFH with all new appliances.
1st month, he let me know that the closet shelves fell down when he hung up his clothes so he went to Home Depot and purchased materials to fix them. I sent my apologies and discounted the rent by $100 to reimburse him for the materials.
2nd month, the bathroom vanities were leaking....totally legitimate repair request so I sent a plumber to fix them. While the plumber was there, he asked the plumber to fix some other small problem that was not discussed with me.
3rd month, he suddenly discovered that the brand new oven does not heat to the exact temperature. This time I went in person with an oven thermometer to test it for myself and also to make it not so easy for him. I also wanted him to pay full rent before I paid for another service call. The oven temp appeared to be off by about 40 degrees but otherwise works fine. I let him know I would get someone out to look at it and confirmed with him that this was not an urgent repair as he could still use the oven.
I scheduled a diagnostic for today and now the tenant wants to know if they are bringing parts, what parts he suggests they should bring, what he thinks the problem is, etc. I'm trying to keep this professional by using 3rd party maintenance but I do think this tenant is looking for problems and/or angling for me to discount rent.
Any advice on how seasoned landlords would handle this tyoe of tenant?
1st month, he let me know that the closet shelves fell down when he hung up his clothes so he went to Home Depot and purchased materials to fix them. I sent my apologies and discounted the rent by $100 to reimburse him for the materials.
This was your 1st mistake. Don't let the tenants do this. You need to have a process setup for repairs. Allowing the tenants to do stuff like this puts them in charge. Not the way the relationship works.
3rd month, he suddenly discovered that the brand new oven does not heat to the exact temperature. This time I went in person with an oven thermometer to test it for myself and also to make it not so easy for him. I also wanted him to pay full rent before I paid for another service call. The oven temp appeared to be off by about 40 degrees but otherwise works fine. I let him know I would get someone out to look at it and confirmed with him that this was not an urgent repair as he could still use the oven.
This is a ridiculous request. If he doesn't pay rent in full let him know he'll be evicted as soon as courts allow. Never allow a tenant to get you into their property for such a trivial issue.
Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2020 · 25 posts · 10 votes
6y
@James Wise yes, I know. I messed up on the shelving issue. He fixed it and let me know after the fact.
I have a service call scheduled for the oven but I too think it is an extra picky request. Honestly, without an oven thermometer, I'm not even sure how he noticed except it is his business and he was looking for a repair opportunity.
Based on advice given above, I will make this the last non-urgent service call and let him know that if he isn't satisfied he is welcome to exit the lease. I'm learning!!
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
6y
@Yolanda W Cuevas some tenants never report a single problem, then when they turn the property over to you, there are all sorts of deferred maintenance issues. Our mindset is that we want to fix problems as they occur, so the property stays in good condition.
I have had all these issues occur at my properties. None of this is serious or expensive to repair. The shelf, I probably would have given him a credit for materials only, with the statement, "next time call me first for pre-approval". The plumbing issue is something you want to fix because it can cause greater issues if left. The stove should be under warranty. It may have taken him a while to notice the problem. Most people don't have a thermometer to check their stove. It probably seems like things were not cooking right and he dismissed it because the stove was new. As far as him offering tips to fix the stove, he is an appliance repair person. I just take that as him trying to be helpful.
Your reaction strikes me as very intense given the details. It probably is good if you have a PM, but the same problems will occur and now you have a PM to deal with. Wait until you have a fire, drug use, domestic violence, unauthorized pets, or any number of other serious problems. These things will all happen if you are in this business long enough.
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
@Greg Scott make sure you separate rent from maintenance requests. If the tenant makes a repair, I send them a separate check to reimburse them. I never discount rent.
Plus, while I’m happy to fix a closet rod or send over an appliance repair person, it happens when it happens. I’ll never run over unless it’s a significant issue (Fire, water, heat).
This is all about being a LL, but make sure you’re in control of the money and timing. You can be a good landlord and not let the tenant bully you.
Glendale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 238 votes
6y
In my opinion, these are all common issues. I would not stress about all Of this and would just fix it. I would never discount around by a $100 for a month for fixing something without my permission. I try to always thank my tenants for letting me know what needs fixing . It’s my property and it’s in my best interest to fix issues before they become serious and costly...
Folsom, CA · Member since 2018 · 134 posts · 100 votes
6y
@Yolanda W Cuevas we use cozy.co to collect rents. It has a feature that allows tenants to report problems/submit maintenance requests on there and also has the option to add photos. I think this feature makes managing requests much easier as your not bombarded by text messages at all hours of the night. Good luck!
Rental Property Investor · Concord, NC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y
@Yolanda W Cuevas don't give up on self PM. What don't kill you, makes you stronger. 30 year old me would stress/struggle with tenant relationships. 60 year old me plays fair but has no time/worry for the trivial. BTW, M2M rental agreements are the best thing I've learned in 12 years. You can deal with misbehaving tenants quickly and they know it. "If you are not happy here, I can end the lease" makes trivial problems go away. Best, Terrell
Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2020 · 25 posts · 10 votes
6y
@Jeremy Blevins thanks!... I will look into cozy. Or, at the very least I will now require maintenance requests to come through email. I had specified Zillow pay in my lease, tenant requested PayPal....paid 1X that way and then requested money order payments. So, yes I've been very accommodating :)
@Terrell Garren thank you for the advice! I will definitely consider M2M going forward.
Try not to stress. Learn to say no when appropriate and if it isn't urgent, tell him you will get to it when you have time. For the plumber, I would have talked to the plumber and tenant and explained that you only approved X and it was not his (the tenant's) job to approve additional repairs.
Hindsight is always great. Determine what works for you and then stop looking back and look forward to the future.
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ and Rehoboth Beach DE · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y
Even digital ovens can be adjusted for the temperature. Look up the manual for that model online, you'll see a section on how to calibrate the oven temperature. 40 degrees off is a lot, and I would not like to live with that either.
Investor · Skagit County, WA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 807 votes
6y
@Yolanda W Cuevas These types of things are my least favorite things about being landlord, but it's still all part of the job. I have all month-to-month rental agreements with my tenants, and when I had a similar sounding tenants to yours and when he actually got to be ridiculous, I let him know that he was free to leave if he didn't like living in our apartment. With M2M he wouldn't be breaking any lease terms and he had the choice to move. He also didn't like to pay rent on time so when he explained to me the inconvenience he was having with some little non-issue issue, I reminded him of our expectations of rent to be paid on time and how it's an inconvenience to get late rent. I use the "I'm a nice person but not a nice landlord" statement to let him know that I'm a good, understanding person, but serious about my business. We continue to address his real issues in a timely manner, and he hasn't been late since that conversation.
Investor · Skagit County, WA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 807 votes
6y
@Terrell Garren I just gave my rave reviews for M2M here and then read your statement, and totally agree! I usually use it to show them that they have to the power to leave a place they don't like, and yes, occasionally use it to show them that I have the power to make them move too.
