Tenant becomes AirBnB competitor - Need Advice (TLDR)

Tenant becomes AirBnB competitor - Need Advice (TLDR)

Kim J.Pro Member
New Orleans, LA · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes

Need advice... 

TLDR:  What to do about a tenant who is now my direct competitor on AirBnB ?

Long:

I bought an AirBnB property with 2 rentable units:  a 1-bedroom MIL cottage, and a 3-bedroom custom home, in a small, seasonal vacation rental market, i.e., no room for additional competition in the market.

A local family had a medical emergency and needed to move out of their own brand-new home due to possible environmental poisoning.  A friend recommended this family to me as a possible full-time tenant.  I felt sorry for them, so I allowed them to rent my property at roughly $5000 per year lower than my AirBnB income.  I figured it was mutually beneficial:  They get a safe home, and I have "caretaker" through the winter.  I even offered to pay the wife if she wanted to help clean the AirBnB for some extra income.  They said they were excited to help with my AirBnB.

The day after we agreed they would rent from me, they informed me they would be listing their own home on AirBnB to help them with expenses while they have their home listed for SALE.  They said, "We're hoping to learn from you so that we can list our home on AirBnB and earn some income while it's on the market."

This didn't sit well with me.  It didn't sound like the full truth.  Imagine owning a restaurant, offering to give someone a job as manager due to their family's hard times, then have that manager say, "Thanks for the training, now I'm opening a restaurant across the street that is identical to yours!"

I met the husband and wife, separately, for the first time last week after they'd been in my house for 1 week.  I asked the husband if they intend to be in the AirBnB business?  He said, "no, absolutely not; they intend to sell their home and that will be the end of their AirBnB hosting experience."  I then proposed that they list their home under my account so that the ratings/reviews on our two properties would enhance each other's property, which would result in increased bookings for both of us.  My listed property (the MIL unit) is a 1-bed cottage, while their house is a 3-bed custom-built home, so these are not directly competitive properties.  However, my 3-bed custom home is virtually identical to the home they have on the market, that they now have on AirBnB.  The husband agreed this would be a good idea, and mutually beneficial, and said he would talk to the wife.

I then met the wife, and I didn't speak with her about my idea to list their home under my account because we had more pressing things to discuss and her husband was scheduled to talk with her about it.  She and I talked about our mutual love of real estate, and about how fun it would be to work together on some house-flipping or rental projects in the area.  The wife said, "We could buy more properties and do more AirBnBs."  To which I said, no, there isn't enough of a market in this area for more AirBnBs, and we would only end up competing with ourselves, so we have to stick to rentals or flips.  That was 7 days ago.

3 days ago, I formally emailed them my proposal about listing their house under my account.  The wife replied that she has already listed their house and they have multiple bookings so it's too late now.  I replied that it's not too late and explained how to re-list under my account while still accommodating their bookings, and then close her account.  She didn't reply.  At all.

I then heard from my cleaning lady that the wife assumed listing under my account would mean *I* would get all their money.  I have only talked about the benefits of sharing ratings/reviews, not about taking or sharing their money.

  • (Of course the money for their house would go to them!)

24 hrs later, the husband replied:  "We don't feel it would be wise for us to mix our ownership with outside management of our home especially with it continuing to be on the market among other things."   

  • ("Among other things"??  Of course they would be responsible for managing their home rental.)


I now feel like these people are not being honest with me. I feel like they are both lying to me, and that they do intend to get into the AirBnB business and become permanent competitors for a very limited vacation rental market in this small, seasonal town.  I feel like they are taking advantage of my compassion and generosity, and essentially scamming me for lower rent while they make the extra $5000 income that I gave up by renting to them.

Additionally, just since I met them - in the last 7 days - they have:  Disabled the security cameras on the property, asked my electrician to change light bulbs in their bathroom, moved furniture into MY AirBnB unit on the property w/o telling/asking me or my cleaning lady, unsuccessfully attempted to remove the bidet from the bathroom, and told my cleaning lady that she needs to raise her rates to me!  And they have only been in the house for 2 weeks!

My gut is screaming to cut these people loose and get them off my property ASAP.  It's a small market, and I don't want to make enemies in town, but I can't allow them to undermine my business relationship with my cleaning lady, or take advantage of my generosity, or potentially steal my AirBnB guests for their future reservations, etc...

So, I wanted to see if anyone sees a solution that I'm not seeing?  Thoughts?

  • A) Discontinue renting to them and go back to AirBnB immediately.
  • B) Raise the rent substantially and do a 6-month lease through winter (non-tourist season), then end it.
  • C) Get over it, continue to rent to them, and hope for the best.  (They said they would like to rent from me for 3-5 years.)
  • D) Other????

Thank you for any advice!


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Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y

I think you are over analyzing and over reacting...
first, you cant stop them from doing what you are doing. Its a free market.     Second you expect them to understand what you are thinking and hold it against them when they dont.    IMO, have an open dialog with them both at the same time before making any decisions.  



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  • Property Manager · Raleigh/Durham NC · Member since 2015 · 210 posts · 293 votes
    6y

    @Kim J. Did you have them sign and lease and if so what were the terms? If it was a 1-year lease then you should determine what you want and talk to them. People can sort things out through conversation I find. If it was a month to month (or there was not a lease) then let them know it's not working out and give them a reasonable amount of time to find another house.

    Let us know how it goes, an interesting story for sure.

  • Kim J.Pro Member
    OP
    New Orleans, LA · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    Haven't signed a lease yet - haven't had time to write it up because it all happened so fast, and I'm travelling for work.  I thought we trusted each other, but now, not so much.  Initial verbal agreement was for 20 months, but they'd like to go longer.

    I can certainly do what you suggest:  "It's not going to work out."

    It will be interesting to see other comments.  I am hoping I'm missing something.  But my gut is screaming... "run!"

  • Rental Property Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2020 · 44 posts · 39 votes
    6y

    @Kim J.

    Too many inconsistencies imo. I would try to cut ties if possible. If you want to rent to them for 6 months, that wouldn’t be a terrible idea either. Talking badly about you openly to cleaning personnel is a big red flag. I think it’s awesome and a very nice thing you want to help them out, but you can’t shoot yourself in the foot. Trust your gut. Hope this helps. 👍🏻👍🏻

  • Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 12 votes
    6y

    @Kim J.

    Wow. People take a mile if you give them an inch. I would follow your gut and cut ties ASAP. Too many red flags in my opinion especially asking the cleaning lady to charge you more?? How does that help either of you if they want to partner in the future.

    Best of luck to you!

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    I think you are over analyzing and over reacting...
    first, you cant stop them from doing what you are doing. Its a free market.     Second you expect them to understand what you are thinking and hold it against them when they dont.    IMO, have an open dialog with them both at the same time before making any decisions.  



  • Burnaby, BC · Member since 2017 · 282 posts · 268 votes
    6y

    You chose to rent to someone and you don't have a right to tell them what to do with their home. You don't have to teach them your air bnb tactics if you dont want to. It sounds like you're really more concerned about them being competition to you and not listing on your account either.

    In my view, you're a bit offside by getting annoyed that they are competing with you in the air bnb market when it really doesn't have anything to do with you choosing to rent a property to someone. They don't have to disclose that information to you when renting nor do they need to inform you of their business ventures

  • Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2019 · 293 posts · 440 votes
    6y

    @Kim J. Interesting story! I hope this does not come off disrespectful, just trying to be straight forward.

    You abandoned your air BnB business model by agreeing to rent to them which now gives them renter rights that are larger than air BnB customers. This means they can move furniture in without asking you, change things around they don’t like etc.

    Now, changing things around like removing a bidet or painting would affect their security deposit, but you didn’t sign a lease with them so how do they know the rules? Did you get a deposit? Never rent without a executed lease that clearly defines expectations. In this case you should have done month to month anyway.

    Even without a written lease, if you verbally agreed to a lease term that they are documented, or they have texts, or they have emails where you agreed to terms, you could still be held to the fire of those terms by a court.

    Why do they have your electricians number? Why is he doing work without your approval? Why are they interacting with your cleaning lady if they are renting? Your not cleaning their unit for them are you?

    They can not disable your camera system and I would charge them back for the cost to repair.

    Personally, sounds like a bad relationship to start and I would cut ties. Give 30-day notice that your terminating the verbal month to month lease and move on.

    However, sounds like your upset they were creative. Rented from you for less than what they were paying at their house and then started renting their house out to make additional income. Don’t be too mad that they made a decent business decision from what it sounds. Just don’t give any trade secrets....

    I’m still confused why them listing under your account benefits them. I don’t believe that and I think it sounds like a control thing, to be honest. If your market is that small without that many options, there would be no need for them to ride your coat tails. It would be irresponsible for them to allow you to control the advertisement and bookings for their site unless you guys had a clear written agreement on how that would happen.

    You can smack me around or yell at me if I’m off base, but here is why I think this is more of a control thing for you.......if I read correctly you stated you have this air BnB property and the town is to small for more properties. That makes me assume you may not have a bunch of properties. If my assumption is correct that means the electrician is not working full time for you and is a 3rd party contractor. So why is he “your” electrician, why can’t he be “their” electrician also? I just think I’m missing something here with the story

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    They may be trying to make the best of a bad situation with their own home.  As for repairs-tell them everything has to go through you and that they need to change their own light bulbs as you are not paying an electrician $50 to change a light bulb.  You are renting to them long term, so they may move some of their furniture in.  Talk to them and tell them you are running a business and that they are renting the home, it isn't their home to do with as they please.  

    Have a meeting with both of them and get them to sign a lease.  When does the BnB market pick up?  If it picks up in May, then have the lease go until April.  Remind them that this a short term arrangement and was meant to help them while they sold their place and found a new home.  That gives them more than enough time to find a place and move there.  No point you losing money on your business, it is a business afterall.

  • Mike CumbieBusiness Member
    REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    HI @Kim J.

    I think the idea of them listing under your account was a bad one in general. Forgetting the rest, what if they start getting horrid reviews? What if the guests at their place figure out the "Environmental issue with their house"? What if they start declining and cancelling stays? Your listing takes all the hits. If you get a single bad review they will feel that you are bringing their rental down. So just my thoughts on that piece.

    It sounds like they are renting out the one house and you still have the AirBnB of the other unit. I also would not have had her helping. Sounds like she may think adding some furniture enhances it or that she is now managing it for you. If you have a cleaning lady, what is the wife actually doing in regards to your rental? What agreed compensation is she getting for helping? 

    Letting someone rent out your STR for a longer term is fine from a business perspective. Inviting them fully into your other business on the first time meeting and expecting them to just go along seems rushed.

    Just my 2 cents and good luck!

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    6y

    I couldn't stomach to read the whole thing. You tried to do someone a favor and it bit you in the butt.

    I tell Landlords all the time: it's a business! You offer a product, and people decide whether they want to buy it. If nobody buys it, you lower the price to meet the demand. 

    They gave you a sob story, you bought it, and you reduced your price to help them out. Now you're realizing they are just taking advantage of you. It's a story I've heard a thousand times over.

    Would I kick them out? Probably not. At a minimum, I would stop talking to them about anything outside of the Landlord/Tenant relationship. No discussion of AirBnB, no talk about the market, nothing. They pay rent, you handle maintenance, and that's it.

    I wouldn't sweat it too much. No matter how small your market is, one more AirBnB is not going to kill your business. You may lose some money, but probably not more than the $5,000 you already gave away.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y

    I think you are overreacting. Another house on AirBNB is hardly competition. If the market is that fragile that you are worried about one competitor, you need to rethink your strategy. You need to get out of the scarcity mindset. There is plenty of opportunity for everyone to succeed. Focus on your own business and don't worry about what others are doing. It sounds like you should just rent to them through the winter and ask them to leave before tourist season begins. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Helena, MT · Member since 2017 · 282 posts · 117 votes
    6y

    Welcome to capitalism. What they do with their house or business or lives shouldn't be a concern or something you try to control. Spend the time writing a lease instead of worrying. 

  • Kim J.Pro Member
    OP
    New Orleans, LA · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Mary M.:

    I think you are over analyzing and over reacting...
    first, you cant stop them from doing what you are doing. Its a free market.     Second you expect them to understand what you are thinking and hold it against them when they dont.    IMO, have an open dialog with them both at the same time before making any decisions.  


     


    Hi Mary. Perhaps I' am over reacting. Glad to hear others' perspectives. So thanks for the reply. I originally had "It's a free market" in my post, but deleted it to shorten the post. :-)

    Thanks again.

  • Kim J.Pro Member
    OP
    New Orleans, LA · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Todd Pultz:

    @Kim J. Interesting story! I hope this does not come off disrespectful, just trying to be straight forward.

    You abandoned your air BnB business model by agreeing to rent to them which now gives them renter rights that are larger than air BnB customers. This means they can move furniture in without asking you, change things around they don’t like etc.

    Now, changing things around like removing a bidet or painting would affect their security deposit, but you didn’t sign a lease with them so how do they know the rules? Did you get a deposit? Never rent without a executed lease that clearly defines expectations. In this case you should have done month to month anyway.

    Even without a written lease, if you verbally agreed to a lease term that they are documented, or they have texts, or they have emails where you agreed to terms, you could still be held to the fire of those terms by a court.

    Why do they have your electricians number? Why is he doing work without your approval? Why are they interacting with your cleaning lady if they are renting? Your not cleaning their unit for them are you?

    They can not disable your camera system and I would charge them back for the cost to repair.

    Personally, sounds like a bad relationship to start and I would cut ties. Give 30-day notice that your terminating the verbal month to month lease and move on.

    However, sounds like your upset they were creative. Rented from you for less than what they were paying at their house and then started renting their house out to make additional income. Don’t be too mad that they made a decent business decision from what it sounds. Just don’t give any trade secrets....

    I’m still confused why them listing under your account benefits them. I don’t believe that and I think it sounds like a control thing, to be honest. If your market is that small without that many options, there would be no need for them to ride your coat tails. It would be irresponsible for them to allow you to control the advertisement and bookings for their site unless you guys had a clear written agreement on how that would happen.

    You can smack me around or yell at me if I’m off base, but here is why I think this is more of a control thing for you.......if I read correctly you stated you have this air BnB property and the town is to small for more properties. That makes me assume you may not have a bunch of properties. If my assumption is correct that means the electrician is not working full time for you and is a 3rd party contractor. So why is he “your” electrician, why can’t he be “their” electrician also? I just think I’m missing something here with the story

    Hi Todd - thanks for the reply.  You make some good points.  It's a confusing story with the 2 different houses, so for clarification...

    • When the wife moved furniture into "My" AirBnB, I meant she was moving it into the apartment that is actively listed/rented on AirBnB... not into "her" home on the property.  She didn't ask or even tell me she was doing that.  Had to find out from my cleaning lady.  Of course she can move furniture into "her" home, no problem.
    • The electrician was on the property to do work for me, on the apartment.  While he was there, she asked him to come over to her house and change light bulbs.  She's welcome to pay him and have him do anything she wants, but not to add scope of work to my bill.  I warned him in advance that she might try to add scope, and made sure he understood I was only paying for my scope.  He handled it perfectly when she asked for added scope.  (Great job by electrician!)

    I totally understand why it may not appear to benefit the tenant to list their house under my AirBnB acct.  Details I left out:  When I bought the property, the seller had a 5/5 rating, Superhost status, etc.  We thought I would be taking over seller's account.  Turns out AirBnB doesn't allow that, so I have to start over with zero ratings, no Superhost, etc.  The tenant also has zero ratings, no Superhost, etc.  So if we list under the same acct, IF we both get 5/5 ratings, then we attain Superhost status faster, and Guests have more confidence in renting our respective properties.  However, as another BP member posted, I was naively assuming we would both receive 5/5 ratings!  If either of us received bad ratings, it would negatively impact the other property.  Good point that I hadn't considered.

    Thanks again for your feedback, Todd!

  • Kim J.Pro Member
    OP
    New Orleans, LA · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Mike Cumbie:

    HI @Kim J.

    I think the idea of them listing under your account was a bad one in general. Forgetting the rest, what if they start getting horrid reviews? What if the guests at their place figure out the "Environmental issue with their house"? What if they start declining and cancelling stays? Your listing takes all the hits. If you get a single bad review they will feel that you are bringing their rental down. So just my thoughts on that piece.

    It sounds like they are renting out the one house and you still have the AirBnB of the other unit. I also would not have had her helping. Sounds like she may think adding some furniture enhances it or that she is now managing it for you. If you have a cleaning lady, what is the wife actually doing in regards to your rental? What agreed compensation is she getting for helping? 

    Letting someone rent out your STR for a longer term is fine from a business perspective. Inviting them fully into your other business on the first time meeting and expecting them to just go along seems rushed.

    Just my 2 cents and good luck!

    Hi Mike:

    Fantastic point that I hadn't even considered re the tenant possibly getting bad reviews that would reflect badly on my AirBnB account and I'd be stuck with those reviews!  Thanks for that now-obvious point!  

    You're 100% correct about letting someone into my business being a bad idea.  That's my point... I didn't "let" her into my business, she is inserting herself where she hasn't been invited.  I hired the cleaner to clean and eventually be my property manager.  I merely asked the tenant lady if she wanted to earn a little extra money by being a backup cleaner for the apartment, in case my hired cleaner needs a day off.  That's all I asked her for help with.  Everything else the tenant has done has been of her own accord, despite me gently and repeatedly stating that "Denise has it covered."  Clearly gentle efforts are not working.

    Thanks again for your feedback, Mike!
      

  • Kim J.Pro Member
    OP
    New Orleans, LA · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    To everyone else for whom I didn't reply individually:

    Thank you so much for your feedback!  Lots of good points, a few things I hadn't considered, and some really good advice.

    Most certainly it's a free country, and what they do with their property is none of my business.  I had hoped we could find a mutually beneficial path forward and have some fun on some real estate projects together.  And although I may be overreacting to certain aspects of this story, the totality of the red flags in such a short period of time don't bode well for the future.

    I appreciate everyone's time and comments!

    Kim

  • Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2019 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Your lease say anything about sub-leases without your permission.

    If so, enforce the lease.

    If not, next time get a pro to draft leases for you.

  • Rental Property Investor · Leavenworth, KS · Member since 2018 · 22 posts · 18 votes
    6y

    @Kim J. Open another Air B&B at a better price with more amenities.

  • Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    If your airbnb market is so fragile that one competitor ruins it for you, I suggest sell the place and move on. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Good perspectives here. I think you are overreacting to their original idea of AirBandB and I think you sent very confusing signals in the beginning, inviting them to have their own our assumptions of how things "should" be that didn't match yours. When you put it out there that you are willing to "share" the business--listing together--you open a lot of doors.

    Sounds like you need a (friendly) conversation about boundries...I'd sit down with them and go over your expectations of their tenancy and separately of how they treat your AirBandB...you have to be explicit about what you want and expect. And yes, you need to write up the lease. You are operating without a net here.

    Don't let your frustration over giving them a "deal" you didn't have to give them come into play. Its not their fault you offered it and you shouldn't blame them for taking it. And yes, you are off base about the competition thing.

  • Rental Property Investor · Douglas County, MO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    "A local family had a medical emergency and needed to move out of their own brand-new home due to possible environmental poisoning."

    Wouldn't this same environmental poisoning prevent them from renting it to someone else? 

  • Kim J.Pro Member
    OP
    New Orleans, LA · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Sylvia B.:

    "A local family had a medical emergency and needed to move out of their own brand-new home due to possible environmental poisoning."

    Wouldn't this same environmental poisoning prevent them from renting it to someone else? 

    Possibly.

    I believe the family has individual medical sensitivities that are causing reactions, whereas you or I wouldn't even notice it.  So it may not affect anyone else, but one thinks there might be an obligation (either legal or moral) to disclose the issue(s) to prospective buyers/tenants/guests.  They are not disclosing the issue at this time.  In fact, they told me they are intentionally not doing any environmental testing at the house, specifically so that they won't have to disclose their findings to potential buyers.  

  • Kim J.Pro Member
    OP
    New Orleans, LA · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Steve Morris:

    Your lease say anything about sub-leases without your permission.

    If so, enforce the lease.

    If not, next time get a pro to draft leases for you.

     Huh?  They aren't subleasing anything.

  • Kim J.Pro Member
    OP
    New Orleans, LA · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jonathan R McLaughlin:

    Good perspectives here. I think you are overreacting to their original idea of AirBandB and I think you sent very confusing signals in the beginning, inviting them to have their own our assumptions of how things "should" be that didn't match yours. When you put it out there that you are willing to "share" the business--listing together--you open a lot of doors.

    Sounds like you need a (friendly) conversation about boundries...I'd sit down with them and go over your expectations of their tenancy and separately of how they treat your AirBandB...you have to be explicit about what you want and expect. And yes, you need to write up the lease. You are operating without a net here.

    Don't let your frustration over giving them a "deal" you didn't have to give them come into play. Its not their fault you offered it and you shouldn't blame them for taking it. And yes, you are off base about the competition thing.

     Lots of good points, Jonathan.  Thank you.

  • Member since 2020 · 122 posts · 62 votes
    6y

    Have you accepted a rent check from them?  If so you have a defacto lease in place.  You can get them to sign a lease that says they can not comepete with you on air bnb while a tennant.  Also inform them that if they do not sign the lease you will find a suitable housing situation for them and you will lease the property out.

    As for the enviromental stuff, that depends on how aggressive you want to be.  You can have the building inspector come out for potential enviromental non compliance and shut the AirBnB down.  But you still have them renting your house.  Now if they are taking your furniture and directing your employees to do unpaid work for them you have a civil case with a potential criminal case against them depending on the laws in your area.

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