(Update) Another Tenant died...and then two more!

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(Update) Another Tenant died...and then two more!

Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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Real Estate Broker 路 Cody, WY 路 Member since 2010 路 28k+ posts 路 41k+ votes

I received a call from concerned neighbors. This Tenant normally goes for walks every day. Nobody has seen him for three days, his lights are on, and his truck has not moved. I go over for a welfare check and find him face down in his workout room. It appears he was working out with dumbbells and just dropped dead. He was 77 years old and a very happy, active guy.

The point of this post is to remind everyone to have a plan in case a renter is deceased or even incarcerated. This is my second renter to die in two months and the sixth one in two years. Who do you call? Who should you allow into the rental to remove belongings? What do you do if rent or utilities are owed?

Build a plan before it is needed.

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Jim K.
Handyman 路 Pittsburgh, PA 路 Member since 2018 路 5k+ posts 路 13k+ votes
5y

Nothing puts the passive in "passive income" like a dead body...

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  • Brian Ploszay
    Investor 路 Chicago, IL 路 Member since 2009 路 1k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    5y

    I've had tenants die.  I've had a tenant incarcerated.  I've had a tenant just leave without telling me.  In some cases, the property was abandoned.  All of the above rarely happens by the way.

    On a tenant application, make sure you have "references" of a relative.  In all cases, I immediately took control to secure the property.  The contents of the houses were removed - ranging from contacting a relative to our removal.  I consulted my attorney (eviction) to tell me the legal process.  I did not have to go through a legal process to gain possession with careful documentation showing several signs of abandonment.  

    3Reply
  • Jason Powell
    Beaverton, OR 路 Member since 2014 路 118 posts 路 119 votes
    5y

    I had a tenant pass away in a unit a couple years ago. To make a very long story short, hot weather and 3 weeks made this a very smelly and messy affair. The 25 year veteran officer said "this isn't the worst I've ever seen, but its probably the 2nd worst". Salt on the wound is that the state of Oregon came in a ransacked the place to salvage anything of value and stuck me with the rest. 15 TONS of junk to remove on my dime. And inherited hoarder tenant (not gross hoarder, mostly magazines). I swear there was probably 10,000 pounds of adult magazines alone. You will get some wierd stories over the years if you want to "retire off real estate" if you want to self manage.

    2Reply
  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    Investor 路 Skagit County, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 807 votes
    5y

    @Nathan Gesner I take it there is no guidelines for this in your state law? I haven't read mine for issues of death, but I guess it falls under abandonment.

    1Reply
  • Zachary Ray
    Investor 路 Tampa, FL 路 Member since 2017 路 589 posts 路 251 votes
    5y

    @Nathan Gesner I'm sorry you had to witness that. Can really shake you up. Being a former police officer I know it can be so eerie. Anyways it is best to have a plan because life is short and these things very well can happen to you. 

    2Reply
  • Suzanne PlayerPro Member
    Attorney 路 New York City / Long Island, NY 路 Member since 2020 路 597 posts 路 248 votes
    5y

    @Denise Evans Do you have any sort of default provision that allows the landlord to take out the possessions & re-rent immediately, if there is a situation where the emergency contacts are no help?  

    I would imagine that in some cases they either can't be found - or are so grief stricken they tell you they just can't deal with going into their loved one's place just yet.  In the meantime, the rent doesn't get paid (& there is no estate to pay), the lease term won't be over for a long time, and the eviction process won't provide relief in a timely manner.  The Courts may close due to Covid, or in some states it can take at least 6 months to evict (even if the tenant is clearly at fault).  It costs money to put their things in storage.

    @Nathan Gesner I like the idea of the tenant authorizing someone to handle their estate so that the landlord doesn't get involved in making judgments about who gets to remove which possessions or what is thrown out.  

    @Scott Mac Having a plan in the lease to deal with pets is an excellent idea - even if the tenant wasn't supposed to have any, we know sometimes they are tempted to sneak in furry friends.

    It's good to have these things in the lease because if a landlord wants to re-rent the unit quickly, they will be seen as not being compassionate even though they feel very bad for their tenant & family.  But it is expensive to have a property sit vacant.

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  • Paul B.
    Rental Property Investor 路 Dallas, TX 路 Member since 2015 路 501 posts 路 504 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Bill F.:
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:

    Nothing puts the passive in "passive income" like a dead body...

     I'm waiting for someone from that thread on charging 20+ applicants a fee to generate more revenue to start advocating, in all seriousness, for making auto pay mandatory so that if this happens they can get more income. 

    There was a story here in Texas about a year or so ago about a man who died at home about three years before he was discovered. He had a pension on direct deposit, and his rent and all his bills were auto-pay, so nobody suspected a thing. 

    A better landlord would have entered the property at least once a year for maintenance. Replace AC filter, pest control, fire detector check, anything...  

    2Reply
  • Jeffrey Mistretta
    Member since 2020 路 3 posts 路 0 votes
    5y

    @Jay Hinrichs 馃槼

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant 路 Summerlin, NV 路 Member since 2014 路 45k+ posts 路 66k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Paul B.:
    Originally posted by @Bill F.:
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:

    Nothing puts the passive in "passive income" like a dead body...

     I'm waiting for someone from that thread on charging 20+ applicants a fee to generate more revenue to start advocating, in all seriousness, for making auto pay mandatory so that if this happens they can get more income. 

    There was a story here in Texas about a year or so ago about a man who died at home about three years before he was discovered. He had a pension on direct deposit, and his rent and all his bills were auto-pay, so nobody suspected a thing. 

    A better landlord would have entered the property at least once a year for maintenance. Replace AC filter, pest control, fire detector check, anything... 

    I just sold a house in Pearl MS that i had for 15 years..  and had the same renter for 10.. I have not seen it in 5 years.

    he was on auto pay from Nissan.. although I checked one month and he had not paid in 2 months so I figured something was up.

    listed it and sold it.. of course the houses was semi trashed at that point.. so i gave a 8k credit to the buyer to get it rent ready. 

    But this renter never ever called for maintenance  EVER..so I never bothered with it.. 

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  • Brett Lee
    Flipper/Rehabber 路 Member since 2018 路 102 posts 路 103 votes
    5y

    @Nathan G.

    Totally kidding Nathan! Was going to joke about the importance of putting life insurance policies on tenants but figured that was too far.

    Actually you brought up dome really good things to think about. Have a great day!!

    1Reply
  • Kelly San Mart铆n
    New York NY (brooklyn, ny) 路 Member since 2020 路 13 posts 路 5 votes
    5y

    @Nathan G. Awful! What was you plan in place? Curious to understand/know what to do in this cases.

    1Reply
  • Suzanne PlayerPro Member
    Attorney 路 New York City / Long Island, NY 路 Member since 2020 路 597 posts 路 248 votes
    5y

    @Nathan Gesner I'm glad you brought up this issue.  We can't simply leave it all to the estate.  There can be confusion, often there is no will, & even if there is it can take many months before the deceased representative can act.

    For example, in New York, whether there is a will

    https://nyestateslawyer.com/20...

    or not - 

    https://nyestateslawyer.com/20...

    it will take months, according to one New York estate attorney.  (I have no affiliation with this attorney, nor am I giving legal advice, just pointing out that the Court system can be slower than we even imagine to provide assistance.)  Landlords need to be able to re-rent their property immediately.

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    1Reply
  • Mike ReynoldsPro Member
    construction 路 Nacogdoches, TX 路 Member since 2011 路 2k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    5y

    Now I am wondering what would need to happen when this happens for a tenant owned home in a MHP. 

    @Frank Rolfe @Jack Martin 

    Any ideas?

    2Reply
  • Pat L.
    Rental Property Investor 路 Upstate, NY 路 Member since 2012 路 3k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
    5y

    Just had coffee with our attorney this morning & he told us one of his clients went in on a Monday & when he checked in on one of his commercial property tenants he found him dead. According to the Coroner he literally dropped dead Friday night & no-one MISSED him all weekend???

    1Reply
  • Mark Brown
    Contractor 路 Webster, TX 路 Member since 2016 路 94 posts 路 75 votes
    5y

    At one point I had several apartment complexes we were invested in and about once a year someone would die.  The worst was someone that was a recluse who we think died shortly after paying rent... so they weren't discovered until they failed to pay rent the next month.  At that point, after the coroner removed the body, we had to call a crime scene clean up company to take everything out where the person died. I'm talking wall paneling, carpet, etc. It was terrible and our property manager, who discovered the body, nearly quit.  Unfortunately, it's just a numbers game.  The more doors you get under management, the more likely this will happen. You get up to 60 - 100 units, when we only live to be 70+ years, and yeah, it's likely gonna be an annual occurrence.

    One good resource is take a look at your local apartment association's website. They usually have a list of vendor-members.  One of which is likely a clean-up company for this sort of thing.

    1Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Real Estate Broker 路 Cody, WY 路 Member since 2010 路 28k+ posts 路 41k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Julie Marquez:

    @Nathan Gesner I take it there is no guidelines for this in your state law? I haven't read mine for issues of death, but I guess it falls under abandonment.

    There are guidelines for abandonment. In my state, abandonment occurs when money is owed and rent is unpaid for more than 15 days. Can you imagine if an adult child called me three weeks after their parent passed, only to hear that I had claimed the property abandoned and auctioned everything off?

    That's a simplified explanation. If someone dies, you can't just claim their property abandoned and dispose of it the same way you would if a Tenant moved out and left something behind. There are legal heirs and they should be given time to settle the estate. This includes removing everything, paying what is owed, collecting any refund owed to the estate, etc. 

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Real Estate Broker 路 Cody, WY 路 Member since 2010 路 28k+ posts 路 41k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Kelly San Mart铆n:

    @Nathan G. Awful! What was you plan in place? Curious to understand/know what to do in this cases.

    I'm putting it in writing and will share it soon.

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Real Estate Broker 路 Cody, WY 路 Member since 2010 路 28k+ posts 路 41k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Suzanne Player:

    @Nathan Gesner I'm glad you brought up this issue.  We can't simply leave it all to the estate.  There can be confusion, often there is no will, & even if there is it can take many months before the deceased representative can act.

    For example, in New York, whether there is a will

    https://nyestateslawyer.com/20...

    or not - 

    https://nyestateslawyer.com/20...

    it will take months, according to one New York estate attorney.  (I have no affiliation with this attorney, nor am I giving legal advice, just pointing out that the Court system can be slower than we even imagine to provide assistance.)  Landlords need to be able to re-rent their property immediately.

    Exactly. We have a process for someone with a Will and for someone without a Will. Allowing the wrong person to access the property and take things is opening a Landlord/Property Manager to some serious liability. In the case of my current renter, he has a fully owned $45,000 truck sitting in the parking lot. Can you imagine if I let the wrong person drive off with that?

    My policy is to give them XX days to remove everything from the property. If they are unable to meet that requirement, I will have to hire someone to remove everything to storage. Once they pay everything owed, they will be given the location and key to the storage unit and can remove everything from there. I have a responsibility to turn the unit around as quickly as possible and get it rented again.

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    OP
    Real Estate Broker 路 Cody, WY 路 Member since 2010 路 28k+ posts 路 41k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Paul B.:

    Exactly this. So many people think a tenant is "good" as long as they pay on time. Then they act shocked when they go in five years later and discover the place is completely trashed and will cost them $30,000 to renovate.

    Click below for an example of a place I bought a couple years ago:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant 路 Summerlin, NV 路 Member since 2014 路 45k+ posts 路 66k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Mike Reynolds:

    Now I am wondering what would need to happen when this happens for a tenant owned home in a MHP. 

    @Frank Rolfe @Jack Martin 

    Any ideas?

    MIke i have a lot of experience with this in the parks i have owned..  what i found happened was that the person who passed usually was elderly then i would get contacted by the kids.. I told the kids they needed to pay space rent.. so they would pay it for a while trying to sell the trailer.. if  it did not sell they tired of paying space rent and just deeded it to us for no compensation..  

    I had a care taker on our 700 acre tree farm and i let them bring in their own coach it was a nice double wide they paid 60k for.

    they up and left and left the coach.. they tried to sell it but it would not sell for near enough to pay the loan of 40k.

    So they leave I write the lender and tell them they have 30 days to remove their trailer etc.. long story short we paid 6k for it .. And had a nice bunk house..  

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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent 路 Washington, D.C. 路 Member since 2012 路 17k+ posts 路 30k+ votes
    5y

    @Nathan Gesner if you stop killing them, maybe youd stop finding dead tenants.

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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    OP
    Real Estate Broker 路 Cody, WY 路 Member since 2010 路 28k+ posts 路 41k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Mike Reynolds:

    Now I am wondering what would need to happen when this happens for a tenant owned home in a MHP. 

    @Frank Rolfe @Jack Martin 

    Any ideas?

    My recommendation? The family probably won't want the trailer. Offer to pay them 50% of value in cash. Then keep it as a long-term rental or owner finance it to someone and make a killer return.

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  • Denise Evans
    JD, CCIM , Real Estate Broker 路 Tuscaloosa, AL 路 Member since 2014 路 1k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Suzanne Player, default is to specific to each state, that I probably can't help you with that.  Many states have their own residential landlord tenant laws, separate from regular landlord tenant law.  I suppose you could make death an event of non-curable default, if allowed by your statutes.  Assuming something short of death, an Alabama landlord who requests access to the premises but is stonewalled by the tenant (because just not there, for example) can claim that alone as an event of default with seven business days to cure. In that way, they would not have to wait until the next month's rent comes due. The tricky arguments revolve around abandonment. You might want to claim that when a person dies, they have "abandoned" the property.  That makes sense in Plain English, but not in Legalese. Legally, abandonment requires an act of departure and an intention to never return. If you are dead, you probably didn't intend that unless it was a suicide, so you are missing a vital element of abandonment.  On the other hand, if they are in the wind and can't be found, you might be able to argue abandonment and retake possession. It is state-law specific, though, so be sure to talk to a local attorney with significant residential landlord/tenant experience.  If you don't know anyone, call the local court where eviction lawsuits are filed, and ask them for the two lawyers who file the most evictions recently. Stress you are not looking for a recommendation, because they are not allowed to do that. BUT, they can tell you who has the largest volue, which pretty much tells you who the experts are.

    1Reply
  • Kelly San Mart铆n
    New York NY (brooklyn, ny) 路 Member since 2020 路 13 posts 路 5 votes
    5y

    @Nathan G. Awesome thank you for sharing.

    0Reply
  • Frank Rolfe
    Real Estate Investor 路 Ste. Genevieve, MO 路 Member since 2009 路 363 posts 路 944 votes
    5y

    When someone dies in a home, the first step (as discussed here at length) is to know the laws of your state with great specificity. All of the answers on here are pretty accurate, but I wanted you to know about one special rule that you don't want to fun afoul of in your state, if it's a part of your state's law.

    In some states, even the dead person has no known heirs to claim their personal property, you are still required to box up and store anything that is "irreplaceable" such as photo albums, trophies, etc. until such time as a family member may claim them. This statute typically has an end time of around 6 months or so. So once you obtain possession of the home through abandoned property action, you can't just throw everything into the dumpster. Instead, you have to sort through every item and decide whether it's household in nature (cleaners, clothes, etc.) or of "family importance" such as photos, certificates, etc. You then box those items up and store them in a secured storage locker for a set amount of time to see if anyone comes forward to claim them.

    That being said, you can get pretty aggressive about it to save yourself the cost of the storage. I once had a resident die and nobody came forward to claim their estate. Then another resident told me that they had a sister who lived in town but hated them. I called the sister and they told me that they hated the deceased individual and wanted nothing to do with them, so I boxed up all the important items and had them delivered directly to her so she could decide what to save and what to discard (even all of it if that's what she wanted) so that I didn't have to pay the $100 per month storage fee.

    The bottom line is that we live in a very litigious society where everyone is always looking for a lawsuit and you need to know all the special requirements in the very real scenario of a resident dying. Your state mobile home association (MHA) will have a lot of information on this, as will a Google search. 

    3Reply
  • Mike ReynoldsPro Member
    construction 路 Nacogdoches, TX 路 Member since 2011 路 2k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Mike Reynolds:

    Now I am wondering what would need to happen when this happens for a tenant owned home in a MHP. 

    @Frank Rolfe @Jack Martin 

    Any ideas?

    MIke i have a lot of experience with this in the parks i have owned..  what i found happened was that the person who passed usually was elderly then i would get contacted by the kids.. I told the kids they needed to pay space rent.. so they would pay it for a while trying to sell the trailer.. if  it did not sell they tired of paying space rent and just deeded it to us for no compensation..  

    I had a care taker on our 700 acre tree farm and i let them bring in their own coach it was a nice double wide they paid 60k for.

    they up and left and left the coach.. they tried to sell it but it would not sell for near enough to pay the loan of 40k.

    So they leave I write the lender and tell them they have 30 days to remove their trailer etc.. long story short we paid 6k for it .. And had a nice bunk house..  

    That is about what I thought might happen. When I went to deliver the new leases this past weekend I found a tenant that is elderly and has dementia in later stages and this question was on my mind. This thread reminded me I need to have something in place. May be looking to cash out in a few months and do it all over again. 

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