How to combat the growing hatred for Landlords?
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews
How to combat the growing hatred for Landlords?
Most Popular Reply
Real Estate Broker · Northeast PA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
5yFood, clothing, and shelter are human NEEDS. They are not human rights.
We still live in a capitalist system (at least for the moment) and in that system people that provide a service are rewarded. The greater the service, the greater the reward.
If they provide poor service, the market will reward them by going somewhere else for the service. Back before big government programs, poor folks in need could get help from family, friends, or the church (or wherever they worship). When the government set up a social 'safety net', people started taking it for granted, and it became a way of life for many. Now many feel that it is their right to have shelter given to them for free.
I guess it's just too difficult for some folks to understand. If someone works hard to provide a service to the public when they make a profit some see that as obscene, immoral, and just wrong.
Landlords have been looked down upon with a stigma since the first Neanderthal rented out a cave that he dug out with his own hands and club.
We can only help the poor when we earn a profit and have something left over to give to a worthy charity of our choice. That does not necessarily include tenants that cannot or will not pay their rent.
That being said, treat everyone equally and with respect. Do not judge them, even if they judge you. Hold your head up and keep moving forward.
129 Replies
- Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 5 votes5y
As housing providers we have huge overheads & huge liabilities. We also have opportunity for great wealth. Tenants need to ask themselves where would they live if landlords did not exist? 40% our nation rents a home. We have to take more pride & be "housing providers" not “landlords". The media is mistaking & is mis-representing us. Most of us are not the wealthy 1%, we are small local Mma & Pa shops. We are not in the business of evicting people, we are in the business of providing housing to people, which btw is an essential to their lives, maybe even the greatest essential! Evictions costs us money, not something we want to do.
If a portfolio is properly managed we should be happy & successful housing providers, not stressed out broke landlords!
- Flipper/Rehabber · Tallahassee, FL · Member since 2014 · 462 posts · 237 votes5y
@Bjorn Ahlblad I’m from the UK and totally agree with you. I love to hear people tell me that it’s so much better over there. Go live there, the grass is really a shade brown. Very few opportunities, high taxes, lots of poverty, they’ll give you a house and you’ll live in it cold and unsatisfied. You have no money for heating or nice food, you’ll walk everywhere because owning a car is far too frivolous. I came to this country with a bag of clothes and have worked damn hard to get to where I am. The difference is I’m getting somewhere here. Over there you’re just on a treadmill working hard and staying in the same place.
- Investor · Fort Wayne, IN · Member since 2013 · 152 posts · 126 votes5y
@Eric Weldon-Schilling wow, envious much. There's absolutely nothing stopping you or anybody else from any Walk of Life creating the life you want for yourself and for your family. Trying to demonize or categorize everybody under a broad blanket comment like that is just arrogant and kind of petulant. I started flipping houses full time 6 months before this entire pandemic with every intention of building a massive rental portfolio to create generational wealth for me and my children's children. Obviously wasn't expecting a curveball like everybody got with the pandemic, but I certainly didn't cross my arms, quit, and label everybody who what's further along the road in real estate investing as greedy rich heartless animals! In fact I did the opposite and roll my sleeves up, dug my feet deeper into the ground, and continue to push and shove my way forward. Fast forward a year later and I've now got an amazing partner who picks up on the investing side of things where I lack, and starting to get multiple properties in our real estate portfolio as long-term buy-and-holds after flipping six houses in a pandemic. I think it all boils down to perspective and if your perspective is nothing but negative, then that's all you're going to get in return
- 5yClint ShelleyPro MemberSurveyor · Dothan, AL · Member since 2014 · 425 posts · 391 votes
@Nathan G.
I maintain good communication with my tenants, repair stuff asap, and just treat them like I want to be treated. It's amazing, but most are shocked when you're not an absolute duck to them.
Clint
- Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
Learn social skills lol. I hear people say bad things about landlords or renting properties for profit all the time but know how to keep my mouth shut. Especially if people view what you say as bragging they will really dislike you. Just keep landlording private unless the other person is also interested in real estate.
- Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes5y
I keep all my thank you and gratitude notes I've received from tenants over the years on the inside of a door in my office. When I get down, I look at it and remember why I'm doing this and am lifted to fight another day.
Most of the notes are simple. Thanks for not being an a**hole like everybody else. Thanks for granting me mercy that time. Thanks for giving me a chance. Thanks for your simple holiday card that said you appreciate me.
I got a good laugh at some of the 'repairs' in the flats and pounds link. I'm a bad handyman too, but those made me feel like a pro.
In the end, people won't remember what you did or said, but how you made them feel. Treat your tenants like you'd want to be treated. Some of these I'm laughing all the way to the bank responses made me sick, but I wasn't at all surprised by who their authors were.
- Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes5y
Well,We have brought a lot of this upon ourselves, sadly, by posting on public forums in a less than professional manne and by treating tenants badly in some situations. So the first thing to do is to be very careful what you post on a public forum (ie bigger pockets) as this web site goes a long way to instilling the idea that LLs are greedy bastards. Then treat all tenants professionally.
Remember that this web site is searchable and your tenants can find what you post here.....
Then We need to up our game and ensure what we do is by the law and as ethical as possible. Then it is just time as it will swing much farther left before it balances out. - Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes5y
ok, just read the website - those LLs deserve everything they get and hopefully they get sued or maybe they are teachable and someone can teach them the laws so they can start being better LLs. These folks are what gives LLs a bad name. We need to up our game!
- Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2017 · 262 posts · 215 votes5y
@Glenn Hastings You make a good point and it is something I didn't put in my earlier post. I do an "annual gift" of sorts for my tenants after the sign for another year on the lease. I give them some choices about upgrades and ask them to pick. If I can involve them in the process I do. For example, last year I gave one of my tenants a choice to add a new lighting fixture, refinish the hardwood floor in one of the rooms, or add some new carpeting to one of the rooms. They chose the new lighting fixture and I had my wife and daughter (who love to shop) go out and take a bunch of photos of lighting fixtures they liked and then texted them to my tenant and asked her to pick one. She did and my electrician installed it.
Yes, these are small gestures and they benefit me in the long run by being property upgrades, but it shows that I am willing to invest back in the property to make it a nicer place to live for them. In other words I don't just take every dime out of it and never re-invest back in until they leave.
I learned this trick at a landlord seminar I was at a few years ago and I adopted it right away. I think this is similar to what you are doing and probably one small way to help change this culture decline that we started discussing at the beginning of this thread.
- Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes5y
Sorry for the plethora of responses, but I am reading some of the responses here, and again, we bring this **** upon ourselves..... acting elitist and throwing your ability to overcharge for a simple thing is gross and exactly what tenants despise. I would not care, except your actions make my life harder..... And, while some of those texts might be fake, having been a tenant for much of my life I can tell you that that stuff happens. ALL THE TIME.
Please LLs and PMs - look in the mirror and stop and think for a minute how you would feel if you were treated as you treat others.
PS - charging $50 to unlock a door then bragging about how ridiculous (ie easy money) it is ? exactly why tenants hate us. - Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Henry Lazerow:
Learn social skills lol. I hear people say bad things about landlords or renting properties for profit all the time but know how to keep my mouth shut. Especially if people view what you say as bragging they will really dislike you. Just keep landlording private unless the other person is also interested in real estate.
I shake my head when I see Landlords driving expensive cars while visiting their properties or flaunting their luxury car collection on their social media. I prefer to drive an old beater and stay under the radar. I also dress conservatively to stay more relatable and so I can jump into a crawl space to inspect a leak at any moment.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
PS - charging $50 to unlock a door then bragging about how ridiculous (ie easy money) it is ? exactly why tenants hate us.
I agree. This tone of easy money made me cringe in addition to others by others.
$50 lock out fee is actually a bad business practice anyway. Mine is $15 (and rarely charged, but likely would be if I was pulled away from something). It's only $15 because I don't want them breaking a window or damaging the door. At $50, they'll break in and blame it on something else.
An 'easy' $35 can cause a lot of damage and agitation in addition to it being a low blow.
- Rental Property Investor · Natick, MA · Member since 2015 · 128 posts · 188 votes5y
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
PS - charging $50 to unlock a door then bragging about how ridiculous (ie easy money) it is ? exactly why tenants hate us.
While I don't disagree on your bragging comment, what if he were on vacation and had to call a locksmith? Should that be free too? Should the locksmith work for free or should the landlord eat it? What if the tenant locked themselves out of their car? Should AAA be free to everyone too?
Unfortunately in today's world if you don't have written policies and charge one person because you were on vacation but not another because you happened to be around the corner, that could easily be misconstrued as discriminatory behavior. It's ironic (to me at least) that the mindset that creates this snafu is the same that thinks going by the book is taking advantage.
I don't fall into the camp of people bragging about how great they are or how great they're doing with rentals. A good number of people that know me have no clue that I'm in real estate and that is by design. I also think that there are people out there that have absolutely no business being landlords. The problem I have is that the "cancel culture" has simply gotten out of hand. Seems like every other day some person or group is just being completely shamed, fired, harassed, threatened, etc., sometimes rightfully so but often times not.
As others have stated I think the "golden rule" we all learned as kids applies. Treat others as you'd want to be treated. The people hating on landlords just for the sake of hating on landlords should have to follow that rule as well.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
PS - charging $50 to unlock a door then bragging about how ridiculous (ie easy money) it is ? exactly why tenants hate us.
He's bragging about it among other landlords. It doesn't mean he behaves that way where Tenants can see it.
If a tenant locks themselves out, they can come to my office and sign out a spare key during business hours. If I have to open the door for them, it's a $20 charge. If it's outside of business hours, it's $40. A locksmith is less available and charges $60.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
The problem with all of this is that we are all good landlords. 90% of the landlords on this site are good landlords. And I would venture to say 99.9% of the regulars are very good landlords. We all do things differently. I disagree vehemently with giving gifts and the last thing my young, professional, six-figure tenants want to see is "affordable housing provider." But that is me. It doesn't stop me from immediately responding to a tenants inquiry or concern. I am a more "hardline landlord" because of the road I travelled. My tenants in multi-families appreciate that, it keeps their buildings quiet, safe, secure. They know the hoops they jumped through to get into their apartment and it makes them feel good that anyone else coming in must jump through those hoops. They tell me all the time how much they love living where they live.
By the time you give a tenant a gift it is too late. You had better have already vetted them to ensure, to the best of your ability, that they are good tenants.
I inherited horrible tenants and any amount of kindness would have been taken advantage of. Crap, they were taking advantage without kindness. It was a very sad fact that this "progressively, lefty, liberal" raised kid had to address. I am talking drug use, hot wiring thermostats to run continuously, over crowding, pet feces, stealing electric, etc. No amount of "Kumbaya" is going to turn that situation around.
That is why I can laugh when I see a dummy thermostat nailed to a wall!
That is not to say I don't spend money, just not on chachka. I bought a change machine for the laundry at the beginning of the pandemic and a great grill for the share backyard.
The overwhelming problem is that we are not the problem and we are not newsworthy. That is why we need local/regional and national representation.
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Carl Mathis:
There really needs to be a way to report an entire thread, the inappropriate, naive, and downright shameful in this thread is horrifying. Could the mods just delete this? The fundamental reasoning errors (logical fallacies) are out of control. I mean seriously you guys.
If you believe a post violated forum rules, you can click on the three dots in the upper right hand corner of the post. Here is where you can find forum rules:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/...
The moderators are not logic police or fact checkers, although each moderator is free to offer their own opinion. If you disagree with someone's perspective or commentary, I encourage you to make your own logical argument.
- Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2017 · 187 posts · 108 votes5y
As they old saying goes: "They hate us cause they ain't us."
- Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes5y
@Nathan Gesner. Well, I didn't make it through the entire posting, but all of these landlords do sound terrible. And as we know, there are absolutely some terrible landlords out there. I know I've had a couple back in the day. I just try to be the type of landlord that I would want, and let the chips fall as they may. I do have some high quality duplexes though, so everything usually goes pretty smoothly.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
PS - charging $50 to unlock a door then bragging about how ridiculous (ie easy money) it is ? exactly why tenants hate us.
I agree. This tone of easy money made me cringe in addition to others by others.
$50 lock out fee is actually a bad business practice anyway. Mine is $15 (and rarely charged, but likely would be if I was pulled away from something). It's only $15 because I don't want them breaking a window or damaging the door. At $50, they'll break in and blame it on something else.
An 'easy' $35 can cause a lot of damage and agitation in addition to it being a low blow.
😂 I guess I'm a total sap because I've never charged any of them yet for unlocking the door. However, with the exception of one house all the rest are within 15 minutes of my house and in the direction I would be going to town anyway. So as long as I can work it into my schedule, I always have a set of master keys with me anyway. And I'm in the process of changing at least one door on every house to the combination setup. I have had a couple of late night run-overs, but they had been good tenants so I just look at it as part of the territory; I'm sitting around eating peanuts and watching tv anyway so what do I care? :)
Skyline Properties - Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2017 · 262 posts · 215 votes5y
@Shawn L. You said... " While I don't disagree on your bragging comment, what if he were on vacation and had to call a locksmith? Should that be free too? Should the locksmith work for free or should the landlord eat it? What if the tenant locked themselves out of their car? Should AAA be free to everyone too?
You make a valid point about this. If the tenant were a homeowner and locked themselves out of their own house they would have to call a locksmith, break the door, or window, or hope that a family member has a spare key. If nobody had a spare key then they are paying out of pocket for a locksmith. I think as property owners sometimes we are expected (at no cost) to take on chores or expenses that would be the a legitimate expense of a home owner, but because they are not and are a tenant instead we are expected to just do it and not charge. I was told by another investor one time that if tenants are NOT charged for certain things then they sometimes just keep doing whatever it is that was the issue in the first place, in this case locking themselves out. If they get charged then they are more careful in the future just as a homeowner would be if the same thing happened and they had to call a locksmith.
I know if I have to pay to fix my own mistakes I tend to not duplicate them again. However having said all of that I don't think this is an excuse to overcharge for stuff or find ways to nickel and dime tenants to squeeze extra profits out of a tenant. I think you need to use some common sense and be fair about it. The tenant needs to be a bit more thoughtful and careful and it ends up being a give and take relationship, which is what it should be.
- Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
PS - charging $50 to unlock a door then bragging about how ridiculous (ie easy money) it is ? exactly why tenants hate us.
Charging $50 is contained in my lease. It is less then what I would be charged if I locked myself out.
Like, I believe all of us on here, all of the money that I previously earned was in exchange for my labor. That is no longer the case. And yes, after the very real work of repositioning my properties- those monthly checks and sometime fees are still considered by this former laborer, easy money.
I find it humorous that you would take me to task for making a comment in response to my leftist family, who I love dearly. Why should they have considered it nice? It is my duty as a landlord as per my lease. The overarching theme of all of my comments has always been that it isn't about being nice, it is about fulfilling the contract that you and your tenant entered into.
Was it nice for me to buy a shared grill, sure I guess it was, but I did not do it to be nice or to make them like me or renew a lease. I did it because it enhanced my property and made it more appealing to potential tenants. You may flip that coin and say "No, but it made your tenants "like" you." and I could not say otherwise.
Was it nice and greatly appreciated when I installed a change machine. Yes, but again- that is not why I did it. I did it in response to a need prompted by the pandemic. Now as I collect $5, $10 and $20 bills instead of quarters, I feel like I bought myself a present.
The bottom line is that whether you buy your tenant a gift or not, is not the issue. I regularly disagree with a number of people on this site, and I disagree with some of there business practices. But I do not believe that the vast, vast majority of them are anything but good landlords. We just conduct our business differently.
Again, the people that give landlords a bad name are not the people who regularly visit this site. It is the people we see from time to time on the news who do not fulfill their obligations to their tenants and the only way we can drown out that small minority is by having good representation.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Anthony Wick:
@Nathan Gesner. Well, I didn't make it through the entire posting, but all of these landlords do sound terrible. And as we know, there are absolutely some terrible landlords out there. I know I've had a couple back in the day. I just try to be the type of landlord that I would want, and let the chips fall as they may. I do have some high quality duplexes though, so everything usually goes pretty smoothly.
I went through all of them. As a manager of 400 rentals with 11 years experience and networking with thousands of property managers and Landlords around the world, I can tell you there are two sides to every story and most of those complaints are made up or dramatically exaggerated.
There are some bad Landlords, just like there are some bad tenants. For every dime a tenant loses, I bet there's a Landlord losing a dollar.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
PS - charging $50 to unlock a door then bragging about how ridiculous (ie easy money) it is ? exactly why tenants hate us.
I agree. This tone of easy money made me cringe in addition to others by others.
$50 lock out fee is actually a bad business practice anyway. Mine is $15 (and rarely charged, but likely would be if I was pulled away from something). It's only $15 because I don't want them breaking a window or damaging the door. At $50, they'll break in and blame it on something else.
An 'easy' $35 can cause a lot of damage and agitation in addition to it being a low blow.
I appreciate your opinion Steve as I appreciate others like @Joe Splitrock who would not charge it. But that is the contract which I entered into with my tenants. There are landlords on here who will not charge a late fee as well. That is their opinion and their business practice.
To the point of your comment, one of the reasons I would never charge a fee or "shared" fee with regards to repairs is exactly that... I don't want someone to hesitate to address a problem or call in someone who is cheap and inept. And if I thought for a moment that the wealthy, young professionals who, btw, all drive nicer cars then me, were capable of breaking down the door to the building... Then maybe I would revisit it. I certainly know that on a few occasions they asked me to text a fellow tenant to open the outside door for them, which I readily did- without charge.
So should we enter the slippery slope of "That's unfair" because I charge fees for late rent and locked doors? "No, you can only charge this much." "Your so mean." Our collective markets run all over the place, all matter of rents. SFR, duplexes and multi's. Poor, middle class and wealthy. Some may do this for the gratitude they receive from tenants. I do it for money. Sorry. But it is exactly that, that makes me the best landlord my tenants will ever have. Because if I slack off and fail to fulfill my terms of a lease: providing them a beautiful apartment, neighbors and building - I will not be able to keep the level of tenant I get and charge the amount I charge for rent.
Bottom line, if you are fulfilling the terms of your lease, you are not part of the problem.
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.