Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
10:51 pm, I get a call from a tenant at my duplex. She tells me that her roommate is having seizures, that she's called 911, and that 10-12 of her roommate's friends are streaming out of the apartment as we speak. I head over. Three paramedic trucks out there, five officers. I find the corporal in charge. "I can't tell you what it is, but it's what it looks like. You can get the police report tomorrow or on Monday."
I find the tenant who called me. Apparently, the paramedics came in, found the other tenant seizing, administered Narcan and brought her back. Now here's the kicker. One of the tenants from the other duplex apartment is with her in the back room, still high as a kite, curled up and crying. One of the guests at the pill party. So ashamed...so ashamed...
Apparently, it was fake Oxy pills, laced with fentanyl, pool quality control and she got a pill with a lot of fentanyl in it.
So...finish the story. How are you going to deal with this?
Then what would we have a fruitful forum discussion about? What about it, forum people? What should I do next?
Termination. Even if the one roommate wasn't partaking in the festivities, she has to know that it's going on and is therefore complicit. I would give them 30 days to get out. If they comply, there would be no penalty.
Bruce, be my hero here. Clear out the mechanism, think this through. What's the answer. I'll bet any amount of money that poor @Nathan Gesner is just looking at the screen and shaking his head slowly right now.
Dude - It's a bad situation and I ain't there.....but if you want my take, it's this: You have a 'bad house' here. I've had them before, that's why I'm doing STRs now :-)
There is ALWAYS more to it than what is on the the surface. Ok, If you're positive about Erica and Bob, and I mean POSITIVE....then keep them, but definitely ditch the other two, they will be nothing but trouble, and we will be having this conversation again. It is a Landlord's market and I'm sure you won't have any trouble finding new tenants, right? And this little druggie escapade with the Police involved should give you ample reason to give them notice, right? Ya just gotta do it, and yes I know talk is cheap....I would be having problems too, but you are in the middle of it and can't see so clearly right now. There, that's the answer. And I'm guessing Nathan has seen worse situations (and threads) than this...
Bruce, all I'm asking is that you tell me, in no uncertain terms and with certainty, WHY I have to act as you tell me I have to act. WHY do I "just gotta do it." I am trying to make some FUBARade out of this FUBAR situation for at least my fellow Bigger Pocketeers.
And please, Bruce, tap "Enter" a couple times to get below the gray italicized text. When you're typing in black letters, you know you're writing in the right place.
Bruce, all I'm asking is that you tell me, in no uncertain terms and with certainty, WHY I have to act as you tell me I have to act. WHY do I "just gotta do it." I am trying to make some FUBARade out of this FUBAR situation for at least my fellow Bigger Pocketeers.
Well if you don't do something, who will....? You have 2 choices: 1) Do something, or 2) Do nothing.....
In my opinion, you can't let an incident like this go unanswered, in a sense that would be you condoning what happened and I doubt you do.
Bruce, all I'm asking is that you tell me, in no uncertain terms and with certainty, WHY I have to act as you tell me I have to act. WHY do I "just gotta do it." I am trying to make some FUBARade out of this FUBAR situation for at least my fellow Bigger Pocketeers.
Well if you don't do something, who will....? You have 2 choices: 1) Do something, or 2) Do nothing.....
In my opinion, you can't let an incident like this go unanswered, in a sense that would be you condoning what happened and I doubt you do.
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
5y
@Jim K.
Never had a drug issue to deal with personally but I think I would plan on getting the drug using/involved people out as quickly/smoothly as possible with eviction as the last resort.
The drug use seems like it increases other risks: fire, crime, death on premises, etc. that I’d just rather not worry about.
I’d probably start by asking nicely, then offering an incentive, then non-renewal.
For the hero Erica maybe help her find a replacement roommate since she seems like a keeper.
How much time is left on their leases/are they MTM?
Yes, I will post updates. This is a real situation, not an academic problem I dreamed up. The names have been changed because I don't want them finding it on a Google search, that's it. The same reason I hide my last name.
I think you're circling around it, both you and Bruce, with "increased risk."
These are all M2M tenants.
No circling here. A lot can happen in a month. Why take any chances?
Well, "risk" is a part of investing, isn't it? If there is increased risk (and you're right, there is) why shouldn't I just raise the rent to cover the cost of it?
Well, "risk" is a part of investing, isn't it? If there is increased risk (and you're right, there is) why shouldn't I just raise the rent to cover the cost of it?
I wouldn't.....there are some situations that no amount of extra money can cover. I'd rather have nice tenants for say $1500 mo than some squirrely guys for $2000 mo. Because when the SHTF, and it will, the mental anguish alone will not be worth it...look at today for example - you've spent the whole morning here on the forums instead of going out to brunch or something...
Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
5y
Hi Jim,
[1] What is the probability that "These Units" will attract and keep (for a good length of time) Rent Payers who are not Dope Fiends. Location, condition, neighborhood, etc...
[2] Dope Fiends De-volve in life (quickly), and unless Section-8/Welfare is paying for their housing and utilities and food, they will soon be (late on rent, then short on rent, then missing rent) to pay for their Dope (unless they get stuck in the greybar motel or a cemetery).
[3] Dope Fiends tend to let their living quarters de-vole into "Filth and Bugs"--while they "Turn on, tune in, and drop out" {baby}.
[4] The quality of "Visitors" Dope Fiends have over are not people you would want to be there when you come to "Fix the stove".
If the duplex is too "Slummy" for non Dope-heads, well that's another thing.
Another thing, females sometimes resort to (methods of ill repute) to pay for their drugs, and if that happens your duplex will probably be on the PD nuisance watch list.
If it were mine, they would be "Asta la vista, baby", the units turned and new renters found (who are likely to not be on Dope--such as long term hospital employees).
Real Estate Broker · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 248 posts · 240 votes
5y
This kind of scenario is why we don't invest in class D. We made a very nice profit selling our class C small multi-family last month after holding it for 3 years. During that time we had more tenant issues than we've ever had with any class A or B single-family home. The thousands of dollars in damage done would have caused a newbie without proper reserves to go broke. There are a lot of ways to invest in real estate. Each investor has to figure out what's right for him/her.
Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
5y
sorry to hear this, glad it wasn't worse and thank you for the laugh with the headline. Time to serve some notices as i am sure you have a drug clause in your lease. EVen if you don't, I think with the police report you can get them out moratorium or not. illegal activity is not protected under that.
Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
5y
I don't have any experience with this but I will play along. I would ask Tiffany to leave and work with Erica to see if she can find a new roommate. Otherwise, Erica may end up leaving. Tiffany violated the lease agreement...not aware that others did. There is no certainty how it will play out with the others still around but sometimes you make the best decision with the information you have and then pivot going forward. Just my two cents. This comes with the territory in certain locations.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
5y
We're really just never going to get there, are we? We keep on snatching hints out of the ether, but what I would consider the meat of the problem, simply hasn't been addressed.
Consider a very simple situation. What if Erica hadn't made the call? Tiffany would have probably died, or, equally as bad from my perspective, she would have been seriously damaged. Who gets sued? Tiffany's junky cockroach friends who gave her the pills or the guy who owns the building?
As Nathan mentioned, Erica has been warning me that Tiffany's been skating near the edge for months now. I didn't think popping a few pills and booze was enough to pull the plug just yet, but I used to be ignorant of how fentanyl has turned almost every illegally manufactured pill designed to change your mood into a crapshoot with death. Maybe that would give me plausible deniability, maybe not.
But now, let's say Tiffany decides to have another event, and she or someone else does this again. It can happen quite easily by accident, I now understand. Things don't have to get out of hand. Some Mexican amateur chemist just has to be unlucky with his blender. It could be two shots and a pill each, and four or five people just keel over. What happens when the lawyers get a whiff that there's been a previous incident, AND I LET THE SITUATION CONTINUE?
TIFFANY IS OUT. I HAVE TO MAKE EVERY VISIBLE EFFORT TO GET RID OF HER. COVID moratorium, uncooperative magistrate, it doesn't matter. On Monday, I'm getting the police report and filing the first eviction.
Doug needs to go. Again, after something like this, I am too exposed. This is not about investing risk. This is about two legal concepts: criminal negligence and liability. Doug has likewise made himself radioactive. I'll file the second day.
Bob is shifty. He has provided me some cover with his "I wuz sleepin" story, but not enough. The smart move is to get rid of him.
I keep Erica and start over with her.
This is going to cost me a hell of a lot of money, because these people certainly won't go easily. But the alternative is far, far worse. The risk is well beyond something to be calculated and allotted for in any legal investment. And this is one of the many, many, many reasons why there's no money in D-class, dealing with D-class tenants. You buy a property like this, you inherit tenants like this, the property had better be in at least a borderline C- low-crime location and you had better have the reserves to turn it around IMMEDIATELY. This property is definitely in the borderline location. The tenants are the problem.
Whose fault is all this? MINE. I saw it as a COVID opportunity and jumped at it. And then I blew much of my reserves on a second opportunity that presented itself. I thought that with my experience I could manage Tiffany and Bob. And then Doug came along, and due to the structure of the inherited lease and the moratoriums, I had no real say allowing him in. That was Bob's call.
@Nathan Gesner you finally have your story on how the COVID moratorium has screwed the hell out of a reasonably aware small local operator. And @Gail K, yes you were right.
Thanks for playing along, Bruce. I'll be fine. You need to have reserves layered on reserves when you deal in sketchy crapshacks, a lesson this pandemic should have driven home to all of us. I may have blown some of mine to get three more units, but I'm still sitting on enough untapped equity to make the same mistake three times over.
Thanks for playing along, Bruce. I'll be fine. You need to have reserves layered on reserves when you deal in sketchy crapshacks, a lesson this pandemic should have driven home to all of us. I may have blown some of mine to get three more units, but I'm still sitting on enough untapped equity to make the same mistake three times over.
So.... should I not buy those 187 units in Hamsterdam? The proforma cash-flow numbers seem incredibly good.
Thanks for playing along, Bruce. I'll be fine. You need to have reserves layered on reserves when you deal in sketchy crapshacks, a lesson this pandemic should have driven home to all of us. I may have blown some of mine to get three more units, but I'm still sitting on enough untapped equity to make the same mistake three times over.
So.... should I not buy those 187 units in Hamsterdam? The proforma cash-flow numbers seem incredibly good.
Investor · Butler, PA · Member since 2014 · 130 posts · 114 votes
5y
Maybe better background checks would have prevented this. You're the landlord not a babysitter or first responder. If you're going to let them continue to live there id tell them very bluntly do not call you for this again.
