Tired of all the winning

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Tired of all the winning

Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

10:51 pm, I get a call from a tenant at my duplex. She tells me that her roommate is having seizures, that she's called 911, and that 10-12 of her roommate's friends are streaming out of the apartment as we speak. I head over. Three paramedic trucks out there, five officers. I find the corporal in charge. "I can't tell you what it is, but it's what it looks like. You can get the police report tomorrow or on Monday."

I find the tenant who called me. Apparently, the paramedics came in, found the other tenant seizing, administered Narcan and brought her back. Now here's the kicker. One of the tenants from the other duplex apartment is with her in the back room, still high as a kite, curled up and crying. One of the guests at the pill party. So ashamed...so ashamed...

Apparently, it was fake Oxy pills, laced with fentanyl, pool quality control and she got a pill with a lot of fentanyl in it.

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
5y
Originally posted by @Jim K.:
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:

Sad story, but good to hear nobody died.

So...finish the story. How are you going to deal with this?

Then what would we have a fruitful forum discussion about? What about it, forum people? What should I do next?

Termination. Even if the one roommate wasn't partaking in the festivities, she has to know that it's going on and is therefore complicit. I would give them 30 days to get out. If they comply, there would be no penalty.

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  • Jim K.
    OP
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Alvin Sylvain:

    Just to be clear, your title, "Tired of all the winning", is that being sarcastic or did you misspell "whining"?

    To be clear, I think there are far too many unqualified success stories in the forums and not enough realism about how awful this business can be.

    11Reply
  • Jim Spatzenfeld
    Investor · NorCal · Member since 2015 · 282 posts · 240 votes
    5y

    I always wonder what’s going on in the tenants heads when they call about something that has nothing to do with the house. If they owned the place, would they have called their mortgage lender?

    0Reply
  • Anastasia Jordan
    Investor · Birmingham, AL · Member since 2016 · 446 posts · 305 votes
    5y

    Eviction. Immediate eviction.

    0Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    5y

    @Tony Kim Only if you have huge cajones......

    0Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @Bruce Woodruff:

    Good call, Jim.....! Best of luck.....

    Thanks for playing along, Bruce. I'll be fine. You need to have reserves layered on reserves when you deal in sketchy crapshacks, a lesson this pandemic should have driven home to all of us. I may have blown some of mine to get three more units, but I'm still sitting on enough untapped equity to make the same mistake three times over.

    Well, a good learning experience....not only for you, but all of us. Well any that were paying attention....

    1Reply
  • Justin Pearson
    Flipper/Rehabber · Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 17 posts · 5 votes
    5y

    @Jim K. They called their landlord to run interference for them with the cops because they were too high to handle it? Yeah, that's pretty damn high to think that would in any way work well for them.

    0Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @Alvin Sylvain:

    To be clear, I think there are far too many unqualified success stories in the forums and not enough realism about how awful this business can be.

    You're right there....it sounds so easy sometimes on here that I wonder why I was the only one that had the bad luck....... :-)

    0Reply
  • Karl B.
    Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    I had two tenants die due to drugs (both inherited tenants, to my defense).

    The first one O.D.'d on fentanyl. The second one was on heroin and decided to shoot herself. 

    I had no clue either were doing drugs. 

    As we all know drugs are addictive and so there's a good chance they'll do this again if they stay and as some of us can attest dealing with a deceased tenant is not a fun experience, neither mood-wise nor financially.

    Personally, now that you know what's going on, I suggest eviction. 

    3Reply
  • Lynnette E.
    Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    Jim K.  I only read the first page so far.  But you are seeking the only one right answer.  I know it!


    From now on, before you rent the apartment you are going to check that there is the appropriate number of working smoke and CO2 detectors.  You will check that there is a working fire extinguisher.  AND you will make sure that there is a supply of  Narcan.  You will check these items monthly and your lease will instruct the tenants to ask for replacements when any of these things are used.


    Problem is solved.  

    1Reply
  • Jim K.
    OP
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:

    Jim K.  I only read the first page so far.  But you are seeking the only one right answer.  I know it!


    From now on, before you rent the apartment you are going to check that there is the appropriate number of working smoke and CO2 detectors.  You will check that there is a working fire extinguisher.  AND you will make sure that there is a supply of  Narcan.  You will check these items monthly and your lease will instruct the tenants to ask for replacements when any of these things are used.


    Problem is solved.  

    0Reply
  • Corey YoungPro Member
    New to Real Estate · Tyler, TX · Member since 2019 · 41 posts · 30 votes
    5y

    @Jim K.

    The title is misleading. Where does the winning start?

    1Reply
  • Steven D Martin
    Middletown, PA · Member since 2020 · 17 posts · 7 votes
    5y

    @Jim K. History repeats itself. Sounds like a case of "fool me once..." going on. Do what it seems like you know what you need to do and stop arguing with yourself over.

    0Reply
  • Jim K.
    OP
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Corey Young:

    @Jim K.

    The title is misleading. Where does the winning start?

    Don't hold your breath. The point of the thread is to explain that nobody wins all the time, no matter how hard they try or how much experience they have. There often isn't a magic solution that snatches victory from the jaws of defeat. Sometimes you just have to slog through terrible situations. A lot of people have real trouble summoning the will for the slog, or daring to talk about it. Conversely, we're really good at bragging about our grand successes in this business.

    1Reply
  • Jim K.
    OP
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Steven D Martin:

    @Jim K. History repeats itself. Sounds like a case of "fool me once..." going on. Do what it seems like you know what you need to do and stop arguing with yourself over.

    That's me to a tee, angst-ridden all the way.

    0Reply
  • Joe P.
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 824 posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Jim K., sorry to hear this happened. Sorry for your tenants, too...both the good and bad. Drugs are bad business and hopefully the good tenant stays good and doesn't become bad. Sometimes misery enjoys company...they are pressured just to "try it once" and then bam...hooked. Terrible way to live.

    I don't know if anyone said it, but I would think my first call in this situation would be to a lawyer. I'd like them to hear the situation, check my lease, and tell me my options to move forward with the end goal in mind, which is to evict everyone except Erica mainly, or evict all and start fresh. Don't know if you've done that, but it might be worth a consultation especially vis-a-vis moratoriums and any local ordinances we won't be acutely aware of.

    While I support getting the insight from folks here who might have done it, your situation is unique both to your property, your tenants, your local ordinances/area...therefore seems serious enough to speak to an expert first and foremost. I like the idea of calling the police and getting a report, that seems smart (if a little delayed), but now, change your approach -- don't come at this with message-board-anecdotes or "trying to do what you think is right" -- talk to an expert to do this correctly.

    1Reply
  • Jonathan R McLaughlin
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Jim K.

    Eviction with cash for keys help for OD lady( post move out, natch :) ), non renewal for Bob though that seems a lower priority.

    Let Erica sign a lease and choose her roommate. Biggest problem of not getting rid of them is she will leave sooner rather than later, yes?

    From your post on your markets seem like a tenant like Erica will save you aggravation if you can keep her do I have that right?

    1Reply
  • Jim K.
    OP
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Joe P.:

    @Jim K., sorry to hear this happened. Sorry for your tenants, too...both the good and bad. Drugs are bad business and hopefully the good tenant stays good and doesn't become bad. Sometimes misery enjoys company...they are pressured just to "try it once" and then bam...hooked. Terrible way to live.

    I don't know if anyone said it, but I would think my first call in this situation would be to a lawyer. I'd like them to hear the situation, check my lease, and tell me my options to move forward with the end goal in mind, which is to evict everyone except Erica mainly, or evict all and start fresh. Don't know if you've done that, but it might be worth a consultation especially vis-a-vis moratoriums and any local ordinances we won't be acutely aware of.

    While I support getting the insight from folks here who might have done it, your situation is unique both to your property, your tenants, your local ordinances/area...therefore seems serious enough to speak to an expert first and foremost. I like the idea of calling the police and getting a report, that seems smart (if a little delayed), but now, change your approach -- don't come at this with message-board-anecdotes or "trying to do what you think is right" -- talk to an expert to do this correctly.

    Good point, Joe, one I should have made earlier. I am working with my real estate lawyer on this one. The guy also runs my preferred closing company. An additional further complication is that the lease I am working with here in an inherited one, as this is an inherited tenant.

    UPDATE: the police desk of the local police office now tells me that the police report for the incident can't be released. The police officer I spoke to on the scene was misinformed, they insist. We're going to have to see if that's actually true or someone erring on the side of caution.

    1Reply
  • Jonathan R McLaughlin
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Jonathan R McLaughlin didn’t see your earlier post sounds like I was close! Forgot who Doug was though….

    1Reply
  • Jim K.
    OP
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jonathan R McLaughlin:

    @Jim K.

    Eviction with cash for keys help for OD lady( post move out, natch :) ), non renewal for Bob though that seems a lower priority.

    Let Erica sign a lease and choose her roommate. Biggest problem of not getting rid of them is she will leave sooner rather than later, yes?

    From your post on your markets seem like a tenant like Erica will save you aggravation if you can keep her do I have that right?

     Erica is an outlier in the C-class tenant world. Dave Ramsey listener. Educated, generally competent, makes 6x monthly rent and still chooses to live in the property. If I could find a place to employ Erica in my organization, I would. Erica's next stop after the duplex is a house she'll buy for cash. 

    1Reply
  • Wesley WhiteheadPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Depends on where my employer sends me · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 142 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @Joe P.:

    @Jim K., sorry to hear this happened. Sorry for your tenants, too...both the good and bad. Drugs are bad business and hopefully the good tenant stays good and doesn't become bad. Sometimes misery enjoys company...they are pressured just to "try it once" and then bam...hooked. Terrible way to live.

    I don't know if anyone said it, but I would think my first call in this situation would be to a lawyer. I'd like them to hear the situation, check my lease, and tell me my options to move forward with the end goal in mind, which is to evict everyone except Erica mainly, or evict all and start fresh. Don't know if you've done that, but it might be worth a consultation especially vis-a-vis moratoriums and any local ordinances we won't be acutely aware of.

    While I support getting the insight from folks here who might have done it, your situation is unique both to your property, your tenants, your local ordinances/area...therefore seems serious enough to speak to an expert first and foremost. I like the idea of calling the police and getting a report, that seems smart (if a little delayed), but now, change your approach -- don't come at this with message-board-anecdotes or "trying to do what you think is right" -- talk to an expert to do this correctly.

    Good point, Joe, one I should have made earlier. I am working with my real estate lawyer on this one. The guy also runs my preferred closing company. An additional further complication is that the lease I am working with here in an inherited one, as this is an inherited tenant.

    UPDATE: the police desk of the local police office now tells me that the police report for the incident can't be released. The police officer I spoke to on the scene was misinformed, they insist. We're going to have to see if that's actually true or someone erring on the side of caution.

    I've work with inherited leases and I hate them as tenant will expect that a owner doesn't change how the property will be managed.  

    I'm sure you've gotten many ideas on what you should do but here is a suggestion I did not read.  Avoid using your tenant's names in a forum such as this.  In fact avoid using PII (personally identifiable information).  As unlikely as you will find this, items such as this have tripped up subjects I have interviewed in criminal investigations. Best to assume that every tenant will do everything to hose you so cover all bases and avoid names, even if it's just a first name.  

    0Reply
  • Linda S.
    Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Jim K.,

    I feel for you and your situation.  

      We got a multi-family last year, and inherited  tenants.     Upstairs was a really young tenant,   whose mom essentially placed her there there for her landlord to be the babysitter-- and the mom always paid 2 months in advance.  It's hard to non-renew really easy rent.    Well, turns out she was a drug dealer.     All the other tenants complained,  but we were stuck with a year lease we inherited right when COVID hit.  She was nothing but drama, often had problems (also from like 4 other people living in the 1bd, 1bth apt), had 2 bricks thrown at windows and broke them, but I think the best was when they showed us a youtube video is someone urinating on our/her front porch.   Other tenants told us how people would go up/down the stairs throughout the night.   We decided to not renew, and its' been wonderful!   Since we didn't renew-- zero problems, all the tenants are happy  and they're working at making it a better place!   There are 0 problems with that multi-family now, and it's very easy to manage now! This is a C- or D area.     

    From my experience, the drama isn't worth the  rent.   You can get rent easily-- without the drama. I'd suggest doing a notice of non-renewal, but telling her you'll give her a positive rental reference, hopefully instead of a rental she goes to a nice rehab facility.     Especially with it being multi-family, you don't want others thinking that's the type of place you are managing, once the bar gets dropped, good people will leave.

    Good people do drugs,  it's sad, but it's a bigger problem and personally I just don't deal with that stuff.

    1Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Wesley Whitehead:

    He mentioned early on that he changed the names to protect the innocent. I know it's a long thread and you probably didn't/couldn't read all of it, so thought I'd throw that in....

    2Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:

    I thought about this thread and was gonna advise to get rid of Erica too and just start fresh.....Never mind now...

    0Reply
  • Jim K.
    OP
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Linda S.:

    @Jim K.,

    I feel for you and your situation.  

      We got a multi-family last year, and inherited  tenants.     Upstairs was a really young tenant,   whose mom essentially placed her there there for her landlord to be the babysitter-- and the mom always paid 2 months in advance.  It's hard to non-renew really easy rent.    Well, turns out she was a drug dealer.     All the other tenants complained,  but we were stuck with a year lease we inherited right when COVID hit.  She was nothing but drama, often had problems (also from like 4 other people living in the 1bd, 1bth apt), had 2 bricks thrown at windows and broke them, but I think the best was when they showed us a youtube video is someone urinating on our/her front porch.   Other tenants told us how people would go up/down the stairs throughout the night.   We decided to not renew, and its' been wonderful!   Since we didn't renew-- zero problems, all the tenants are happy  and they're working at making it a better place!   There are 0 problems with that multi-family now, and it's very easy to manage now! This is a C- or D area.     

    From my experience, the drama isn't worth the  rent.   You can get rent easily-- without the drama. I'd suggest doing a notice of non-renewal, but telling her you'll give her a positive rental reference, hopefully instead of a rental she goes to a nice rehab facility.     Especially with it being multi-family, you don't want others thinking that's the type of place you are managing, once the bar gets dropped, good people will leave.

    Good people do drugs,  it's sad, but it's a bigger problem and personally I just don't deal with that stuff.

    Hi, Linda.

    Again, here's the real-world experience speaking through the fog.

    I am working exactly this angle with the problem tenant. Get her from my place to a rehab facility. Out with a minimum of fuss.

    -- Jim

    1Reply
  • Chad McMahan
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Sedona, AZ · Member since 2017 · 754 posts · 504 votes
    5y

    Yuck! It's amazing the lengths people will go to to get a free ride.

    My best advice, when navigating the issue of tenants who will not pay rent, is document everything, put notification to the tenant IN WRITING, via certified mail (keep a dated copy of everything (exactly as provided) in your files), and if you haven't already, talk with a real estate landlord/tenant attorney who you pay- not a free family/friend/etc attorney. And if their advice is different than my advice- go with their advice. Stay on top of it. It's discouraging and disgusting, but you have to stay on it, and stay organized. I'm hoping your attorney can provide a route to getting out of the tunnel.

    Good luck.

    1Reply
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