Realtor · New York City · Member since 2021 · 35 posts · 16 votes
Hi y'all,
I finally got my wife to be on board with investing into real estate, and we are looking to jump into short term rentals. As NYC makes STR illegal, are people avoiding upstate New York as well?
No one is buying in Upstate NY so I can buy all the STRs. So stay away so I don’t have competition. Thanks!
JUST KIDDING!
Upstate NY is the most overlooked market in the US and you should take a look at the affordable prices and medium to high ROI. The Adirondacks, Catskills, and Fingerlakes are tourist regions. Cities are touristy too but more of your families and traveling workers.
Taxes are higher than most states and regulations are terrible if you LTR. However, STR regulation are less strict and running your house this way would give you more control of your property. They're the loophole to Upstate NY rental laws.
Also, zoning. If you're looking to do multiple STRs in a single building and it's not classified as a "multi family property" you're allowed. Otherwise having a STR in a multi family building (3+ units) is illegal. This includes a mix of STRs and LTRs.
No one is buying in Upstate NY so I can buy all the STRs. So stay away so I don’t have competition. Thanks!
JUST KIDDING!
Upstate NY is the most overlooked market in the US and you should take a look at the affordable prices and medium to high ROI. The Adirondacks, Catskills, and Fingerlakes are tourist regions. Cities are touristy too but more of your families and traveling workers.
Taxes are higher than most states and regulations are terrible if you LTR. However, STR regulation are less strict and running your house this way would give you more control of your property. They're the loophole to Upstate NY rental laws.
Also, zoning. If you're looking to do multiple STRs in a single building and it's not classified as a "multi family property" you're allowed. Otherwise having a STR in a multi family building (3+ units) is illegal. This includes a mix of STRs and LTRs.
this is refreshing to hear. I was starting to feel like I was crazy for wanting to buy something upstate--it seemed like most were starting to look elsewhere so I was wondering if the money/bookings were drying up here.
One of my places makes 35% and the other makes closer to 45-50%. I own a duplex and a 4 unit in Cortland and Tompkins county. Both are zoned mixed use. I bought my properties on discount, rehabbed them myself, and self manage. As you know this increases my ROI.
@Nick Rutkowski - Your figures are return on equity (post financing) I assume - not cap rates, correct? Just want to make sure we are talking apples to apples.
In either case, great deals and probably better execution! Kudos!
@Alexander Szikla - just curious, what factors do you think don't make sense STR-wise Upstate? I'm a new investor based in NYC and considering the region due to proximity ... but there are obviously many other remote markets that look attractive
Also, wow! this is my first post on Bigger Pockets! :)
I own a STR in Lake Placid and it was a great market. New restrictions have dampened that and in my opinion you just need to find a good upstate market with reasonable regulations/laws and you can be successful in the ADK's or Catskill's. My LP guests come from all over New England and New York State mostly and most consider it a great getaway. Good luck in your search @Alex Lee.
Also based in NYC. I currently have an STR out in Long Island but the area has become so competitive that it's difficult to make numbers work on a lot of these properties. I'm aiming to stay as close to NYC as possible and I would be curious if anyone knows of markets in the upstate area that have favorable laws? It feels like every time I dig into the laws there are new regulations coming that might do something like limit the house to only 90 nights per year.
Any thoughts or direction on favorable markets would be EXTREMELY helpful. I'll keep looking and add any if I find them here.
I'm debating on Ithaca--it's a bit of a hike to get there, but assuming I'll be having PM take care of day to day, I figure if the numbers work then maybe I make the move. I still haven't dug into how strict they are with STR though...
Whatever the regulations are, have a back up plan. The new governor just proposed forcing local municipalities to allow ADU's until she was blasted by the constituents.
Whatever the regulations are, have a back up plan. The new governor just proposed forcing local municipalities to allow ADU's until she was blasted by the constituents.
Great call out Nancy, I'll need to look more into this. BTW I see you're in Sag Harbor, My STR is in Westhampton Beach and going to Sag Harbor is what originally inspired me to get into my first STR :)
I've been doing some research and contacting some of the towns in New York and I have to say it doesn't look great. It seems the laws they have in place are not fantastic from an investment POV and then other towns don't yet have laws but they are pretty clear that something is coming. Seems a bit dangerous to purchase in these areas. Still looking and calling as I would love to stick close to the area but so far... nothing :(
I suppose my concern is finding established STR areas that have lower risks of shutting down operations. I understand that everything has inherent risks and we want to pull the trigger on something--but I suppose it gets me more nervous because I feel like the desperation is starting to get me thinking recklessly.
@Alex Lee Totally agree. Some of the areas that have established laws seem to be limited examples being items like no more than 90 days rented in a year, must be a resident to rent, limited number of rental applications given out on a first come basis. Those all scare me with the exception of 90 days, if the area had a 90 day limit but the numbers show a COC % return that aligns with your goals then I think it could be worth the investment. My fear of an area such as Hunter Mountain where there are no regulations are, what if they make STR residents only? What if they grant limited number of applications and I don't get one for a key season? Then I would need to be sure that I can make the place work as a long term rental where I sacrifice COC and focus on appreciation as my key metric to grow wealth. My issue in these upstate area are that the appreciation has skyrocketed so much in the past two years that I'm not confident in it's room to grow. Making my numbers not look great :(
Hi all. I’m an investor and agent in the Ithaca and surrounding area. I’m primarily long term rentals but just closed on a single family on the lake in Ovid that will be a str.
The town of Ithaca has a lot of new str regulations, the biggest being you cannot rent a non owner occupied property (this is for properties not on lakefront) out for more than 29 calendar days in a year. Their is talk that the City of Ithaca is going to follow suit. Short term rentals around the lake do well but if you definitely have to research each towns regulations because have none and others impose a lot.
Here is a link to the proposed regulations, I can’t find the final draft on a quick search but I’m pretty sure this was enacted without any changes.
Long term rentals and student housing in Ithaca continue to do really well, you can usually take advantage of both cashflow and appreciation in this market.
Hi all. I’m an investor and agent in the Ithaca and surrounding area. I’m primarily long term rentals but just closed on a single family on the lake in Ovid that will be a str.
The town of Ithaca has a lot of new str regulations, the biggest being you cannot rent a non owner occupied property (this is for properties not on lakefront) out for more than 29 calendar days in a year. Their is talk that the City of Ithaca is going to follow suit. Short term rentals around the lake do well but if you definitely have to research each towns regulations because have none and others impose a lot.
Here is a link to the proposed regulations, I can’t find the final draft on a quick search but I’m pretty sure this was enacted without any changes.
Long term rentals and student housing in Ithaca continue to do really well, you can usually take advantage of both cashflow and appreciation in this market.
I will look into what the numbers look like with LTR rents thank you for your help!
The upstate STR market is incredibly hot. It's important to be roughly 2 hours from the GW Bridge, imo. I own an A frame chalet in Roscoe, NY on 5 acres and we're currently grossing between 5K-7800 a month with an 85% occupancy rate. Our property performs as well as it goes because it was thoughtfully designed to be a very "instagramable" airbnb. We renovated much of the house to reflect this idea that it would be a "cool" place for New Yorkers to escape to throughout the year. We're in a big fishing and hunting area, however not one of our guests over the last year was either a hunter or fisherman. What's great about our area of Sullivan County is that they're very pro STR, as it has revived much of the small local towns that have otherwise been overlooked for towns like Hudson, Woodstock, etc.
The upstate STR market is incredibly hot. It's important to be roughly 2 hours from the GW Bridge, imo. I own an A frame chalet in Roscoe, NY on 5 acres and we're currently grossing between 5K-7800 a month with an 85% occupancy rate. Our property performs as well as it goes because it was thoughtfully designed to be a very "instagramable" airbnb. We renovated much of the house to reflect this idea that it would be a "cool" place for New Yorkers to escape to throughout the year. We're in a big fishing and hunting area, however not one of our guests over the last year was either a hunter or fisherman. What's great about our area of Sullivan County is that they're very pro STR, as it has revived much of the small local towns that have otherwise been overlooked for towns like Hudson, Woodstock, etc.
Jeffrey - Would love to learn more about your A frame since I’m trying to figure out the best way to set one up myself. Did you buy it via a company like Den or Avframe? Or was it a preexisting structure?
Hi Everyone. - I am a total newbie looking for my first investment property and I really love Upstate, both sides of the river. I grew up in NYC, but my parents bought a weekend house just outside of Hudson in 1972. We watched Hudson go from a boarded up ghost town to what it is today. Frankly, I liked the 10-year-ago version better than the 2022 version, but that's another conversation.
I also went to graduate school in Albany so I know that area too. My husband and I did a day trip to Troy this past weekend to check it out. There's some great stuff happening in the Historic District. There were A LOT of people walking around on Sunday. However, it is still pretty low key (unlike Hudson). The proximity to the river creates so much potential for the waterfront. I too am concerned about STR regulations. I actually called the City Zoning Office last week to ask about STR restrictions and the guy said "not yet"...sigh. I also was looking at multifamily properties around RPI for student housing. There are some good deals and possible opportunities for forced appreciation. I am just concerned that with students, there is a cap to what the parents are wiling to spend and it might not justify the improvments.
Does anyone have experience investing in Troy (or elsewhere in the Capitol region? I would welcome your thoughts
Hi Everyone. - I am a total newbie looking for my first investment property and I really love Upstate, both sides of the river. I grew up in NYC, but my parents bought a weekend house just outside of Hudson in 1972. We watched Hudson go from a boarded up ghost town to what it is today. Frankly, I liked the 10-year-ago version better than the 2022 version, but that's another conversation.
I also went to graduate school in Albany so I know that area too. My husband and I did a day trip to Troy this past weekend to check it out. There's some great stuff happening in the Historic District. There were A LOT of people walking around on Sunday. However, it is still pretty low key (unlike Hudson). The proximity to the river creates so much potential for the waterfront. I too am concerned about STR regulations. I actually called the City Zoning Office last week to ask about STR restrictions and the guy said "not yet"...sigh. I also was looking at multifamily properties around RPI for student housing. There are some good deals and possible opportunities for forced appreciation. I am just concerned that with students, there is a cap to what the parents are wiling to spend and it might not justify the improvments.
Does anyone have experience investing in Troy (or elsewhere in the Capitol region? I would welcome your thoughts
Hey Meredith, It is a good market for both student and STR rentals. We own rentals in the area and own STR's outside of the region in Lake Placid and Myrtle Beach. There are great pockets in the area for both types of real estate investment but as with any other real estate purchase it is all about location. 1 or 2 streets in the wrong direction and you can completely miss the target. Happy to connect and discuss further if you want to? Bryce
I am in ADK and do very well but LOCATION is really key. Also many town have regulations to consider as well. Look for property around an attraction or central to attractions…the obvious ones are Lake George and Lake Placid as they are well know but also around the ski resorts. We have almost 4 successful years so far but we work at it too. Also shoot to give someone an “experience” versus just a rental house…high end is nice but also the mountain experience is even more important…immerse them in the area.