Are out of state property managers worth it?
Northern Virginia · Member since 2023 · 7 posts · 2 votes
Are out of state property managers worth it?
Most Popular Reply
Avery CarlBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · USA · Member since 2016 · 909 posts · 1k+ votesThere is NO such thing as passive income, even with a property manager. I have 8 self managed STRs and 200 something LTRs with managers. What I have learned from investing over the better part of a decade is that there is no scenario where you can buy something and then lay on the couch the rest of your life and throw your phone in the trash. You're still going to have to answer when the property manager inevitably calls because you as the owner need to make a decision. Our LTR manager called yesterday bc someone worte the F word with a stick in the fresh sidewalk concrete we put in.
There is a time and place for managers in STR. If you're in scale/growth mode, that is not the time. That being said, I don't know if "doubling" the cash flow is accurate. But it can be the difference between cash flowing and breaking even depending on the deal. You have to decide if answering a few messages and calling a handyman a time or two a month is worth the 18%. When I first started I was happy to answer the "I can't work the remote" message to keep that extra 10k, because I had plans for it. Now, with more properties, what used to be 10k in savings each year is enough for the down payment on an apartment building. So you have to decide which is more important to you at this stage in your life: scaling or being mildly annoyed when a guest can't figure something out and messages you while you're at the movie theater.
And there's no wrong answer to that, by the way.
53 Replies
- 3yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
Hey @Patrick F., yes I would put it under your name and own the account if they allow it. Most will not.
It will affect your ability to move to another PM or do it yourself later.
- 3yAvery CarlBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · USA · Member since 2016 · 909 posts · 1k+ votes
There is NO such thing as passive income, even with a property manager. I have 8 self managed STRs and 200 something LTRs with managers. What I have learned from investing over the better part of a decade is that there is no scenario where you can buy something and then lay on the couch the rest of your life and throw your phone in the trash. You're still going to have to answer when the property manager inevitably calls because you as the owner need to make a decision. Our LTR manager called yesterday bc someone worte the F word with a stick in the fresh sidewalk concrete we put in.
There is a time and place for managers in STR. If you're in scale/growth mode, that is not the time. That being said, I don't know if "doubling" the cash flow is accurate. But it can be the difference between cash flowing and breaking even depending on the deal. You have to decide if answering a few messages and calling a handyman a time or two a month is worth the 18%. When I first started I was happy to answer the "I can't work the remote" message to keep that extra 10k, because I had plans for it. Now, with more properties, what used to be 10k in savings each year is enough for the down payment on an apartment building. So you have to decide which is more important to you at this stage in your life: scaling or being mildly annoyed when a guest can't figure something out and messages you while you're at the movie theater.
And there's no wrong answer to that, by the way.
- Real Estate Agent · Fayetteville, NC · Member since 2022 · 213 posts · 293 votes3y
Quote from @Patrick F.:
Hi all, I'm coming close to buying my first rental as an out of state STR. I have been in contact with a local property manager who charges 18% to manage the listings on their accounts (Airbnb, Vrbo, etc), take care of cleanings, help with stockings, set the prices, and really just let me collect a paycheck every month. Given that this is my first rental (and the nerves are there), this seems like a nice convenience for peace of mind.
However I was crunching some numbers and it looks like self managing could almost double my cash flow. I’m a little worried about finding cleaners and handling stocking of household items. I also worry that having a new Airbnb/Vrbo account could lead to review-volatility as opposed to using a PM’s established account.
Anyone have advice on the above? Any tips on finding out of state cleaners & stockers? (especially in South Bend!) Any suggestions for PM softwares like Guesty, etc? Thank you!
PMs represent 1% of total vacation rental hosts, maintain 23% of all listings, and generate 35% of the revenue in this market. It is indeed very wise to get a good PM for your STRs and Vacation Rentals. They are gold miners in this field.
- Real Estate Agent · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2022 · 45 posts · 52 votes3y
Stay local. You'll do more good than you will create profit: eliminate headaches, increase your passive income, better accountability and therefore stronger reviews, maintain local culture, provide jobs.
- Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
To you all who manage your STR (from afar) over a sustained amount of time I give you props. I think it's incredible. I'ts something I would NEVER come close to trying. I see what my manager does and the time he devotes to being onsite (often), all over top of everything, he could never produce the profits by not being around. He has all the teams running effectively but he still has to make it there to keep some aspects moving. The stuff I see him do cant work as some passive automated process depending on a team alone. The system can have massive break down points failure that are impossible to predict. If that happens, you are supposed to just drop your life wherever and jump on a plane? We have had staff quit, be hospitalized or vanish. We have had natural disasters or unforeseen complications in our condo building. We have had to arrange emergency cleaning blitzes at the last minute or respond to guests when something went chaotic. There are just too many moving parts on mine with hundreds of variables that can go wrong easily. My manager is maybe 3 hours away and has a huge foot print of staff and systems, but he has to be on deck on occasion. There are at least 10 instances last ski season where if he had never showed up my ratings would have been tanked. I dont want to risk 1 bad rating let alone dozens. With his marketing, approaches and being directly involved on certain angles, it produces a great reputation thus nice profits. To all you that are able to make this happen, managing from afar with that degree of reliable systems working continuously, I sincerely commend you! Great Job!
- Northern Virginia · Member since 2023 · 7 posts · 2 votes3yI probably could’ve explained this better (my bad!), but my net profit, not gross, would double. I’d go from $500ish to $1000ish in my pocket every month after taxes, expenses, etc.
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Patrick F.:
Hi all, I'm coming close to buying my first rental as an out of state STR. I have been in contact with a local property manager who charges 18% to manage the listings on their accounts (Airbnb, Vrbo, etc), take care of cleanings, help with stockings, set the prices, and really just let me collect a paycheck every month. Given that this is my first rental (and the nerves are there), this seems like a nice convenience for peace of mind.
However I was crunching some numbers and it looks like self managing could almost double my cash flow. I’m a little worried about finding cleaners and handling stocking of household items. I also worry that having a new Airbnb/Vrbo account could lead to review-volatility as opposed to using a PM’s established account.
Anyone have advice on the above? Any tips on finding out of state cleaners & stockers? (especially in South Bend!) Any suggestions for PM softwares like Guesty, etc? Thank you!
Super confused. How does removing a service at 18% charge of rents, equal 100% additional profit?
Are you saying your STR is operating with a gross-net margin of less than 40%? Because that should be your #1 issue if that's the case.
- 3yAlexis HernandezPro MemberProperty Manager · Tampa, FL · Member since 2023 · 17 posts · 7 votes
Doing everything in your business is not healthy for you or your business. Trust me I know lol. Calling all type A's.....So, here’s what I suggest… check your ego. Remind yourself that you are a businessperson, not a superhero. Building a sustainable business and achieving the freedom that you want requires a team. There’s no other way about it. A good team can minimize risk and help you scale. Even if you are just starting out make decisions like you have 10 or 20 rentals so that you build processes and the right habits! let's go!!!!
- 3yJacob GomesBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Nashville · Member since 2020 · 70 posts · 22 votes
Managing out of state is extremely difficult. I wouldn't recommend it.
- 3yJay ThomasPro MemberReal Estate Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 715 votes
Property managers have the expertise and resources to efficiently manage rental properties and can alleviate the burden of day-to-day operations for property owners. Concerns about managing cleaners and other maintenance issues can also be effectively addressed by a property manager, leaving property owners with more time to focus on other important matters.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes3y
Quote from @Patrick F.:
I probably could’ve explained this better (my bad!), but my net profit, not gross, would double. I’d go from $500ish to $1000ish in my pocket every month after taxes, expenses, etc.Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Patrick F.:
Hi all, I'm coming close to buying my first rental as an out of state STR. I have been in contact with a local property manager who charges 18% to manage the listings on their accounts (Airbnb, Vrbo, etc), take care of cleanings, help with stockings, set the prices, and really just let me collect a paycheck every month. Given that this is my first rental (and the nerves are there), this seems like a nice convenience for peace of mind.
However I was crunching some numbers and it looks like self managing could almost double my cash flow. I’m a little worried about finding cleaners and handling stocking of household items. I also worry that having a new Airbnb/Vrbo account could lead to review-volatility as opposed to using a PM’s established account.
Anyone have advice on the above? Any tips on finding out of state cleaners & stockers? (especially in South Bend!) Any suggestions for PM softwares like Guesty, etc? Thank you!
Super confused. How does removing a service at 18% charge of rents, equal 100% additional profit?
Are you saying your STR is operating with a gross-net margin of less than 40%? Because that should be your #1 issue if that's the case.
First of all, I applaud you for being "in-the-game". Many talk about it, desire it, but few actually DO, kudos to you 100%.
Ok, onto the ugly. That's a really tight cash-flow on a STR. Scary tight. So tight that I'd say there another added value in using a good experienced PM that may not be reviewed here and that's Better Monetization.
In general STR's fluctuate a lot over the year. Generally speaking, the lion's share of profits are made on 1/3 of the year, 1/3 is a break even, and 1/3 is a loss that we work to keep minimal. For example, I have one that during prime-time, it's $5k-$7k monthly profits, roughly 300% profit margin. But that's what keeps things going through the other times. AND there is those bumps in the road.
I think you'd be better served using the PM for the day-2-day, which may help for this cash flow BUT also it free's your time to do added activities to also increase tenancy and cash-flow. Time leveraging. If your in the day-2-day that's less time to do more marketing, maybe build out a self-booking site, post FB add's, study the competition and what improvements to drive $ can be done, etc..
Keep in mind using a PM CAN be a team-sport, you can work together for a greater finished outcome, vs just handing off and watching tv.
On my managed portfolio, maybe 5% do this, very few. The results are very apparent, it directly translates into $'s. Most just hand off a property to me and disappear, which is ok, but it doesn't have to be that way. I am happy to give direction as to how we can team-up on it and drive better revenue potentials. Any good PM should be the same.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes3y
Quote from @Mark Cruse:
To you all who manage your STR (from afar) over a sustained amount of time I give you props. I think it's incredible. I'ts something I would NEVER come close to trying. I see what my manager does and the time he devotes to being onsite (often), all over top of everything, he could never produce the profits by not being around. He has all the teams running effectively but he still has to make it there to keep some aspects moving. The stuff I see him do cant work as some passive automated process depending on a team alone. The system can have massive break down points failure that are impossible to predict. If that happens, you are supposed to just drop your life wherever and jump on a plane? We have had staff quit, be hospitalized or vanish. We have had natural disasters or unforeseen complications in our condo building. We have had to arrange emergency cleaning blitzes at the last minute or respond to guests when something went chaotic. There are just too many moving parts on mine with hundreds of variables that can go wrong easily. My manager is maybe 3 hours away and has a huge foot print of staff and systems, but he has to be on deck on occasion. There are at least 10 instances last ski season where if he had never showed up my ratings would have been tanked. I dont want to risk 1 bad rating let alone dozens. With his marketing, approaches and being directly involved on certain angles, it produces a great reputation thus nice profits. To all you that are able to make this happen, managing from afar with that degree of reliable systems working continuously, I sincerely commend you! Great Job!
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes3y
Quote from @Jared Trindade:
PMs represent 1% of total vacation rental hosts, maintain 23% of all listings, and generate 35% of the revenue in this market. It is indeed very wise to get a good PM for your STRs and Vacation Rentals. They are gold miners in this field.
That's some "Tom Brady" level performance.
- Real Estate Agent · Emerald Coast, FL · Member since 2016 · 820 posts · 486 votes3y
The Short Term Shop teaches clients to self-manage and keep the money in their own pockets. That said, before hiring a PM, I think it's important to learn what the job entails so you can choose if you'd like to self-manage or not (or have co-hosts or some other hybrid model). I managed my own FL property from Texas for 2 years. Finding and communicating with cleaners is the hardest part, as others have said, but there are definite strategies to find good ones. Maybe if you have 3 properties, you'd want a PM, but with 1 or 2, I think it's easy.
- Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
Another vote for self management here. Way easier than many will lead you to believe with all of the modern tech, even from another time zone.
Only situation where I would strongly consider it is if your STR is in a market with a tight labor pool and sparse amenities where it's difficult to get things done without boots on the ground. Given that you are in south bend, you should have easier access to support services and amenities than you would in a place like the smokies. For example, you can always have Costco or Target home delivery drop off a pack of toilet paper or whatever with relative ease and expedience compared to some place in the boonies.
I also see some local management companies being less competitive. When I look at some neighboring properties under management, a lot of them have emptier calendars and higher daily rates because the management companies have to price in their overhead. It’s great that they have their own in house cleaners, handyman, on call errand runners etc but all of that that comes at a price. Plus you have to get in line on turnover day with all of their other properties, whereas if you hire an independent cleaner maybe they will prioritize you if you take good care of them. My go to cleaner does mostly local homes, so it’s easier for her to knock those out in the morning and then be at my place right at check out time.
End of the day it comes down to your situation. If you really don’t have the time and/or desire to deal with it then yes, it’s worth it. Or maybe you scale to the point where it becomes overwhelming and you don’t want the headaches, where at that point you probably need the revenue less. That should the goal!
- Real Estate Agent · Houston TX · Member since 2018 · 4 posts · 0 votes3y
Quote from @Patrick F.:
Quote from @Narmina Amirbekova:
Quote from @Eliott Elias:
This sounds like a co-host service, not property management. Co-hosting in my opinion does not justify 18%.
That is what I am thinking too. What does 18% include? for example I have property manager that is only engaged in talking to guests and cleaning crew and he is out of state. I live 10 min away from the property and still have to go there each time something breaks or needs attention i wish i could pass it to property manager as well. Or do i need to hire handyman?
The 18% here includes listing (on their respective accounts), pricing, cleaning, communicating with guests, receiving packages & stocking, and marketing. I’m just reading up on cohosting now but it seems like co-hosting is less involved than PM’ing?
From what I see yes, co-hosting is less involvement than property management. What I would suggest you can start with them at 18% and then learn for couple of months how they do it (mostly it will be automated messages) and after couple of months you can pick up yourself. I shadow my co-host to see how they are doing it. If I had more time I could definitely do it myself. It is not that hard. I just travel and work full time so no time to do it myself.
- Property Manager · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2020 · 16 posts · 3 votes3yI manage out of state properties and its all about the TEAMS I have that help me. Look at the PM's properties on those platforms and their reviews....that will be a big indicator on the level of care he/she/they provide.
- Property Manager · Aurora, CO · Member since 2014 · 221 posts · 210 votes3y
As you can see from all of these helpful & informative responses, there are options out there for STR owners. You should be able to find the one that best fits your situation and lifestyle goals. If you are interested click here to read a blog post that I wrote a while back that outlines these options for booking/property management for STR owners.
Reading the post by @Mark Cruse, I'm glad to see how much he appreciates his PM, but I'm surprised by the number of "issues" he describes that his PM has had to handle. It has been my experience that if a property is well-maintained, the guests are screened properly and the communication with guests sets proper expectations it is rare to have a problem that needs the PM's involvement. Most of the time, at a well-run STR, any issues the guest experiences are usually "operator error" or caused because the guest did not avail himself of the information he was provided (such as not knowing how to access the property when they get there, etc.)
My husband & I own STR properties in 4 different states, self-manage, and we've never had to "drop our life and jump on a plane" to respond to an issue. The key to success is having good local contacts for all of the various trades who can handle any issue that should arise.
One of my favorite quotes is:
“The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it.”
― Henry David ThoreauSo your goals will help decide your path. If your goal is to build wealth then you'll want to choose the option to help you do that, which in most cases would be to self-manage. If your goal is "peace of mind" then hire a local full service PM. Or, choose the niche in between those two options and hire a booking management service (or a "co-host" service as some people call it). They'll take care of most of the time-consuming tasks and you'll handle the occasional maintenance issue at the property.
Whatever you choose, best of luck!
- Investor · Spokane, WA · Member since 2023 · 31 posts · 16 votes3y
18% is an awesome quote. Lowest I'm getting in Coeur d'Alene is 25%!
- 3yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
Hehe @Kelly Cochran. Is your place right in town? All of the local PMs in CdA weren't interested talking to us about our lake house down in Harrison. Vacasa quoted 40% when we first started there.
- Property Manager · TX · Member since 2024 · 6 posts · 4 votes3mo
Short answer: a GOOD out-of-state PM is absolutely worth it. A bad one will cost you more than self-managing.
Here's what separates the two:
A good out-of-state PM should:
- Have a local team in your market (not just virtual assistants overseas)
- Send monthly owner statements with every dollar accounted for
- Handle pricing dynamically — not just set-it-and-forget-it
- Maintain 4.8+ star averages across their managed portfolio
- Have a direct booking website, not just Airbnb/VRBO
- Respond to guests within 15 minutes, 24/7
- Coordinate all cleaning, maintenance, and inspections without you lifting a finger
What you should expect to pay: 15-25% of gross depending on the market and property type. If someone is quoting you 30%+, they better be providing a white-glove, full-service experience.
The math that matters: compare your projected self-managed income vs. PM-managed income NET of their fees. A skilled PM with dynamic pricing, listing optimization, and multi-platform distribution should increase your gross revenue by 20-40% compared to a passive self-manager. If the fee is 20% but they're bringing in 30% more revenue, you come out ahead.
I always tell investors: interview at least 3 PMs, ask to see their active listings, check real guest reviews, and ask for references from current clients. The best PMs will welcome the scrutiny.
- 3moDrew SygitBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
Quote from @Humberto Marquez:
Short answer: a GOOD out-of-state PM is absolutely worth it. A bad one will cost you more than self-managing.
Here's what separates the two:
A good out-of-state PM should:
- Have a local team in your market (not just virtual assistants overseas)
- Send monthly owner statements with every dollar accounted for
- Handle pricing dynamically — not just set-it-and-forget-it
- Maintain 4.8+ star averages across their managed portfolio
- Have a direct booking website, not just Airbnb/VRBO
- Respond to guests within 15 minutes, 24/7
- Coordinate all cleaning, maintenance, and inspections without you lifting a finger
What you should expect to pay: 15-25% of gross depending on the market and property type. If someone is quoting you 30%+, they better be providing a white-glove, full-service experience.
The math that matters: compare your projected self-managed income vs. PM-managed income NET of their fees. A skilled PM with dynamic pricing, listing optimization, and multi-platform distribution should increase your gross revenue by 20-40% compared to a passive self-manager. If the fee is 20% but they're bringing in 30% more revenue, you come out ahead.
I always tell investors: interview at least 3 PMs, ask to see their active listings, check real guest reviews, and ask for references from current clients. The best PMs will welcome the scrutiny.
Why are you responding to a Post from 3 years ago?
Logical Property Management4.9458 Reviews
- 3moDrew SygitBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votesWhy are you responding to a Post from 3 years ago?
Quote from @Angela Venger:
Patrick, I just want to let you know that if you hire a property manager and they charge 18%, you might still make cashflow or maybe break even. It depends on what kind of property you have and what kind of amenities you offer, and if your property is the top of the market in your area. If it's a generic house, I would say with the 15.5% airbnb service fee plus 18% property management fee, I would be surprised if you still cashflow. Maybe in the summer, but it's hard in the winter. Again it depends on what kind of property you have.
As for finding cleaners, you can find them on local Facebook groups, Angie's List, Thumbtack, and Turno. I would interview at least five housekeepers and at least three to five handymans. That's the move if you want to self manage.
One of my properties is four hours away driving from me and I manage it myself. I usually have my housekeeper restock and do minor fixes around the house, and I have three other handymans that take care of bigger maintenance jobs. I also made connections with local companies for Heating and cooling, plumbing etc.
I have made couple reel about where to look for housekeepers and what you do with housekeepers that you don't hire. Good luck!
Logical Property Management4.9458 Reviews - Property Manager · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2018 · 175 posts · 134 votes3mo
To the point others have made, in my view every rental property of any type has to have a Property Manager and an Asset Manager. When someone self-manages their own property their acting as both. When you hire a Property Manager they handle the day to day but you still act as the Asset Manager for when larger decisions have to be made.
- 2moAlyssa MarquezBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · San Antonio TX / Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2023 · 120 posts · 29 votes
For a first out-of-state STR, I'd probably start with the PM for the peace of mind, especially if the 18% includes guest communication, pricing, turnovers, and emergency issues. Once you understand the operation, you can always transition to self-management.
If you're considering self-managing, I'd build the local team before closing—find 2–3 cleaners, a handyman, and someone who can handle restocking. I'd also ask the PM exactly what their 18% covers and whether there are additional fees for cleaning, maintenance, supplies, or setup. The established account/review advantage is worth asking about too, but I wouldn't let that alone determine the decision.
- Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ and Rehoboth Beach DE · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes2mo
This post was from 3 years ago.
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