Lot with deed restrictions written in 1985??
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Michael BaumPro Member
Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votesHey @Nik Kov, so is this in some kind of neighborhood?
I will say that these restrictions look like something the county put in place due to zoning or whatever and not some kind of HOA.
If that is the case, they will be nearly impossible to remove.
The size of the house is pretty typical of a lot of county guidelines. 200 extra SQFT is not that big a deal IMHO.
The property is a zoned SFR1 or whatever the New York state zoning codes are. That is something that isn't going to be changed.
Regarding the cabin, that could be considered a fixed structure. Even with no power to it. We have a garden shed on a foundation that is considered a permanent structure. Temporary structures would be something like those steel, freestanding carports.
That "random crap" is a way to keep the area looking typical stylistically with other homes. They don't want a super modern home build in an area filled with craftsman or farm style homes. That can really throw off property values.
Just move on to a different lot if you can't live with these restrictions. Even if they are for the neighborhood, they are very difficult to remove.
14 Replies
- 2yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
Hey @Nik Kov, so is this in some kind of neighborhood?
I will say that these restrictions look like something the county put in place due to zoning or whatever and not some kind of HOA.
If that is the case, they will be nearly impossible to remove.
The size of the house is pretty typical of a lot of county guidelines. 200 extra SQFT is not that big a deal IMHO.
The property is a zoned SFR1 or whatever the New York state zoning codes are. That is something that isn't going to be changed.
Regarding the cabin, that could be considered a fixed structure. Even with no power to it. We have a garden shed on a foundation that is considered a permanent structure. Temporary structures would be something like those steel, freestanding carports.
That "random crap" is a way to keep the area looking typical stylistically with other homes. They don't want a super modern home build in an area filled with craftsman or farm style homes. That can really throw off property values.
Just move on to a different lot if you can't live with these restrictions. Even if they are for the neighborhood, they are very difficult to remove.
- 2yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Michael got most of it, I would add that:
1) IMO you should let 200 SF ruin a deal for you
2) When they say 1 property do they mean 1 house? Because you can build a house with an attached guest house, then just seal off the door and have 2 houses.
3) If you have to have chickens then you need to move on because they ain't gonna change that easily
4) If the random crap bothers you, also move on
5) You have your extra structure already in the old cabin so that's a bonus. re they making you tear it down.
Sounds like way too many restrictions for me, especially out in the country on a 5 acre lot. I don't like restrictions and they're usually County driven, so I'd look in another county...
- Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes2y
This isn't uncommon, I've seen many from back in the 30's and 40's. It used be a more common way to implement the equivalent of zoning standards before zoning was a thing.
As far as the impact, first who is the beneficiary of the restriction? These are all private so someone had to include them, and then that person can pursue you for failure to comply. I had a client looking at two lots that needed to be built with one house based on a 1930s deed restriction. I told him I'd gamble that there's no one who even knows that restriction exists to enforce even if an heir lived in the area...the way to legally eliminate them is either get the beneficiary to record a new document (possibly a QC deed) to eliminate their restrictions, or pursue a Quiet Title if you think the person is no longer around or their heirs are not identifiable.
The final thought...it's also common for some of these to no longer be legal and enforceable. Many of the restrictions I've seen from that era said "no Jews, blacks or others of non white heritage". Obviously there are many more recent laws that supersede those restrictions. So if some of your restrictions are no longer enforceable then you can 'violate' those without fear...another common one is no additional dwellings or structures which would apply to ADUs, where I am they are legal state wide and cannot be restricted by HOAs or private restrictions. So that provision is unenforceable now as it relates to ADUs at least.
- 2yNik KovMember since 2024 · 12 posts · 2 votesOP
Quote from @Michael Baum:
Hey @Nik Kov, so is this in some kind of neighborhood?
I will say that these restrictions look like something the county put in place due to zoning or whatever and not some kind of HOA.
If that is the case, they will be nearly impossible to remove.
The size of the house is pretty typical of a lot of county guidelines. 200 extra SQFT is not that big a deal IMHO.
The property is a zoned SFR1 or whatever the New York state zoning codes are. That is something that isn't going to be changed.
Regarding the cabin, that could be considered a fixed structure. Even with no power to it. We have a garden shed on a foundation that is considered a permanent structure. Temporary structures would be something like those steel, freestanding carports.
That "random crap" is a way to keep the area looking typical stylistically with other homes. They don't want a super modern home build in an area filled with craftsman or farm style homes. That can really throw off property values.
Just move on to a different lot if you can't live with these restrictions. Even if they are for the neighborhood, they are very difficult to remove.
It's in a town. It's a mountain town, essentially, mostly full of second home vacation owners.
The restrictions were created by the original parent parcel owners before they subdivided it all. But they are recorded at the county level at this point. I think overturning some of them will include getting some of the nearby lots to vote on it as there is a clause stating that that's allowed.
The thing that scares me the most is regarding the stylistic stuff -- there's a clause stating -- "The homes shall be harmonious with and reflect the exterior design characteristics of these homes already erected on the property" and that combined with -- "it should be lawful for any peron or persons owning any real property situated in said tract, to prosecute an action or proceeding at law or in equity against a person or persons either to prevent him or them from violating these covenants or to recover damages for such violation"
My RE lawyer friend said that its such a broad clause that it could potentially open you up to getting sued if a neighbor really wanted to depending on the stylistic choice of your home.
- 2yNik KovMember since 2024 · 12 posts · 2 votesOP1) Sorry, should or shouldn't?
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Michael got most of it, I would add that:
1) IMO you should let 200 SF ruin a deal for you
2) When they say 1 property do they mean 1 house? Because you can build a house with an attached guest house, then just seal off the door and have 2 houses.
3) If you have to have chickens then you need to move on because they ain't gonna change that easily
4) If the random crap bothers you, also move on
5) You have your extra structure already in the old cabin so that's a bonus. re they making you tear it down.
Sounds like way too many restrictions for me, especially out in the country on a 5 acre lot. I don't like restrictions and they're usually County driven, so I'd look in another county...
2) It states -- "No structure shall be erected on any residential lot other than one detached family dweling and an attached or detached or build in private garage for not more than three automobiles. The floor area of the main structure, exclusive of porches and garages shall be no less than 1500 sq ft of livable space."
3) not too serious about the livestock/poultry
4) It only does but legally. If I build something contemporary, will my neighbors sue me?
Also, the craziest part of all of this is that the house wouldn't even be visible whatsoever from the main road. There's a little driveway that goes back quite aways into a lot of trees and its all tucked away. - 2yMichael BaumPro MemberOlympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
Yeah, I think he is right on the neighbors if you deviate from the local style.
It will take some work to get them overturned or changed. It could cost quite a lot.
I feel pretty sure that the single home only is county so I would check that.
You need to decide if the juice is worth the squeeze.
- 2yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
@Nik Kov I would not let a couple hundred SF worry me a bit, that's just a bedroom really...
I would not buy this and take a chance on anything. Talk to the City/County and get it in writing that you can do what you need/want to do. Before going any farther...
- 2yJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
As others have said, just go ahead and meet the minimum sq footages and try and not violate the other restrictions so that no one has cause to come after you for any violations.
- 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Michael Baum:
Hey @Nik Kov, so is this in some kind of neighborhood?
I will say that these restrictions look like something the county put in place due to zoning or whatever and not some kind of HOA.
If that is the case, they will be nearly impossible to remove.
The size of the house is pretty typical of a lot of county guidelines. 200 extra SQFT is not that big a deal IMHO.
The property is a zoned SFR1 or whatever the New York state zoning codes are. That is something that isn't going to be changed.
Regarding the cabin, that could be considered a fixed structure. Even with no power to it. We have a garden shed on a foundation that is considered a permanent structure. Temporary structures would be something like those steel, freestanding carports.
That "random crap" is a way to keep the area looking typical stylistically with other homes. They don't want a super modern home build in an area filled with craftsman or farm style homes. That can really throw off property values.
Just move on to a different lot if you can't live with these restrictions. Even if they are for the neighborhood, they are very difficult to remove.
county does not do deed restrictions those are put on at Plat recording by the orginal developer and cant be removed. However many counties wont enforce them and if they are real old like ones that did not allow certain races and relgion to buy those of course cant be enforced.
However a land owner in the same subdivision can bring a civil action to enforce these. Probably rare in a rural setting in.. an urban setting you can almost count on it.
the othere issues will be title insurance when it comes to a lender policy. - 2yNik KovMember since 2024 · 12 posts · 2 votesOPThe interesting thing is when we drove around the area, the houses weren't in any particular "style" -- one looked to be like a classic large ski chalet, another was a different type. Their only commonality was "expensive"
Quote from @Michael Baum:
Yeah, I think he is right on the neighbors if you deviate from the local style.
It will take some work to get them overturned or changed. It could cost quite a lot.
I feel pretty sure that the single home only is county so I would check that.
You need to decide if the juice is worth the squeeze.
- 2ySarah KensingerPro MemberReal Estate Consultant · OH · Member since 2023 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
If you're not comfortable with what is written out and legally binding, I would highly recommend just looking somewhere else for property. Your peace of mind is worth more than a piece of land, and many times changing bylaws is not worth the hassle.
- 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votesDeed restrictions are impossible to change without 100% of the affected lots agreeing to change them at least in west coast states and land use laws.. and that basically is impossible.
Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:
If you're not comfortable with what is written out and legally binding, I would highly recommend just looking somewhere else for property. Your peace of mind is worth more than a piece of land, and many times changing bylaws is not worth the hassle.
- 2yAlecia LovelessPro MemberMember since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
@Nik Kov Am currently dealing with a ROW that was granted over 50 years ago. It has not gone in my favor and is taking up the entire useful part of my lot that I am stuck owning and paying taxes on because it is tied to a mortgage on a MFH that I own. (There are two lies tied together on the mortgage and the first has the multi family property and the second is a vacant lot I was planning to develop that now I can’t because of a 75 ft. ROW.
You will not be able to overturn these restrictions. If it’s a deal breaker then I’d say find a different property.
- 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Alecia Loveless:
@Nik Kov Am currently dealing with a ROW that was granted over 50 years ago. It has not gone in my favor and is taking up the entire useful part of my lot that I am stuck owning and paying taxes on because it is tied to a mortgage on a MFH that I own. (There are two lies tied together on the mortgage and the first has the multi family property and the second is a vacant lot I was planning to develop that now I can’t because of a 75 ft. ROW.
You will not be able to overturn these restrictions. If it’s a deal breaker then I’d say find a different property.
Alecia dont give up on trying to solve the ROW.. I have been successful getting ROW and actual city streets abandoned and removed. what needs to happen is everyone who benefits from the ROW has to sign off if that cant happen then it wont be removed.. the property it serves you cant leave land locked either .. dont know your situation but its worth exploring.
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