SMOKIES REPORT: April and May

Short-Term & Vacation Rental Discussions
6moFollow

SMOKIES REPORT: April and May

Collin HaysBusiness Member
Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes

We are trending a few percentage points higher for occupancy over 2025, with mostly comparable rates.  We have experienced difficulty with the large, multi-family properties.  We have very nice one that has done around $100K in rents for three straight years. I will feel good if we achieve $70K this year on it.  

There are two things affecting multi-family properties:

1.  There are lot of them now. Big builds have been the rage for investors in the Smokies for the last few years.  

2,  Multi-family properties require that BOTH families are in a financial position to afford a trip, and then follow through with a reservation. That's big.  

We are having to price our multi-family properties at only slightly higher than single family properties to get them rented.  

It's hard to predict summer right now. We are pacing well below last year, but I'm not too concerned yet, because guests right now seem to be booking last-minute.

[email protected]806-672-7102
SMOKY MOUNTAIN FALLS INC.51 Review
WebsiteView Page
6Reply
251 views

Most Popular Reply

John UnderwoodPro Member
Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
6mo

I always look forward to your Smokies reports!

We have a 6 bedroom cabin. June and July have been booked solid for months. 

May is still slow, but hopeful it will fill in last minute.

3Reply
See this reply in the discussion

15 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Mike GrudzienPro Member
    Lender · Eugene, OR · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6mo

    Let's keep our fingers crossed!

    1Reply
  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    6mo

    I always look forward to your Smokies reports!

    We have a 6 bedroom cabin. June and July have been booked solid for months. 

    May is still slow, but hopeful it will fill in last minute.

    3Reply
    • Collin HaysBusiness Member
      OP
      Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
      6mo
      Quote from @John Underwood:

      I always look forward to your Smokies reports!

      We have a 6 bedroom cabin. June and July have been booked solid for months. 

      May is still slow, but hopeful it will fill in last minute.


       You are definitely bucking the trend with summer. May is fine, but for our larger cabins.

      [email protected]806-672-7102
      SMOKY MOUNTAIN FALLS INC.51 Review
      WebsiteView Page
      1Reply
  • Jon Martin
    Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6mo

    Interesting about the multifamily properties being behind but I think your supply comment covers it. People have options! 

    Good to hear overall, I think your market reports are a good proxy for the overall vibe of the drive to vacation market. 

    0Reply
  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6mo

    Hey @Collin Hays, I do enjoy your reports as well!

    I was wondering, what do you mean by large multi family?

    Do you mean huge cabins that sleep 40 that can accommodate several families or do you mean something like a 20 unit condo/apartment complex dedicated to STRs?

    1Reply
    • Collin HaysBusiness Member
      OP
      Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
      6mo
      Quote from @Michael Baum:

      Hey @Collin Hays, I do enjoy your reports as well!

      I was wondering, what do you mean by large multi family?

      Do you mean huge cabins that sleep 40 that can accommodate several families or do you mean something like a 20 unit condo/apartment complex dedicated to STRs?

      Good question.  I would say anything sleeping 10 or more and with 3000 feet or more is in that category.  We have several of these, and it’s so frustrating that $200 a night is all we can get right now.  The cleaning fees are enormous and of course that factors in to the total.

      When the cleaning fee is equal to two nights’ rent, you’ve got a problem.

      [email protected]806-672-7102
      SMOKY MOUNTAIN FALLS INC.51 Review
      WebsiteView Page
      1Reply
    • Michael BaumPro Member
      Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
      6mo
      Yeah. We just lost our cleaner so I am interviewing new ones. Getting people to come 36 miles downlake to clean our place is a challenge. We have had 2 cleaners simply not show up to set appointments. No communication either.

      Luckily we found a small crew that treats their business like a business instead of someone who is just cleaning houses. They are less than what we were paying our previous cleaners and it will always be 2 of them so that is a win.

      The whole point of that tangent is some of the bids were almost 2 nights rentals as well. I don't blame them for the high bids with 2 hours round trip and 2700sqft to clean, but still!
      2Reply
    • John UnderwoodPro Member
      Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
      6mo
      Quote from @Collin Hays:
      Quote from @Michael Baum:

      Hey @Collin Hays, I do enjoy your reports as well!

      I was wondering, what do you mean by large multi family?

      Do you mean huge cabins that sleep 40 that can accommodate several families or do you mean something like a 20 unit condo/apartment complex dedicated to STRs?

      Good question.  I would say anything sleeping 10 or more and with 3000 feet or more is in that category.  We have several of these, and it’s so frustrating that $200 a night is all we can get right now.  The cleaning fees are enormous and of course that factors in to the total.

      When the cleaning fee is equal to two nights’ rent, you’ve got a problem.


       Ouch $200 a night? Is that weekdays or weekends too?

      What do you attribute thos to? Saturation? Less demand?

      0Reply
    • Collin HaysBusiness Member
      OP
      Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
      6mo
      Quote from @John Underwood:
      Quote from @Collin Hays:
      Quote from @Michael Baum:

      Hey @Collin Hays, I do enjoy your reports as well!

      I was wondering, what do you mean by large multi family?

      Do you mean huge cabins that sleep 40 that can accommodate several families or do you mean something like a 20 unit condo/apartment complex dedicated to STRs?

      Good question.  I would say anything sleeping 10 or more and with 3000 feet or more is in that category.  We have several of these, and it’s so frustrating that $200 a night is all we can get right now.  The cleaning fees are enormous and of course that factors in to the total.

      When the cleaning fee is equal to two nights’ rent, you’ve got a problem.


       Ouch $200 a night? Is that weekdays or weekends too?

      What do you attribute thos to? Saturation? Less demand?


       Complete saturation plus less demand.  

      [email protected]806-672-7102
      SMOKY MOUNTAIN FALLS INC.51 Review
      WebsiteView Page
      0Reply
    • John UnderwoodPro Member
      Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
      6mo
      Quote from @Collin Hays:
      Quote from @John Underwood:
      Quote from @Collin Hays:
      Quote from @Michael Baum:

      Hey @Collin Hays, I do enjoy your reports as well!

      I was wondering, what do you mean by large multi family?

      Do you mean huge cabins that sleep 40 that can accommodate several families or do you mean something like a 20 unit condo/apartment complex dedicated to STRs?

      Good question.  I would say anything sleeping 10 or more and with 3000 feet or more is in that category.  We have several of these, and it’s so frustrating that $200 a night is all we can get right now.  The cleaning fees are enormous and of course that factors in to the total.

      When the cleaning fee is equal to two nights’ rent, you’ve got a problem.


       Ouch $200 a night? Is that weekdays or weekends too?

      What do you attribute thos to? Saturation? Less demand?


       Complete saturation plus less demand.  


       Double Whammy!

      0Reply
    • Collin HaysBusiness Member
      OP
      Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
      6mo
      Quote from @John Underwood:
      Quote from @Collin Hays:
      Quote from @John Underwood:
      Quote from @Collin Hays:
      Quote from @Michael Baum:

      Hey @Collin Hays, I do enjoy your reports as well!

      I was wondering, what do you mean by large multi family?

      Do you mean huge cabins that sleep 40 that can accommodate several families or do you mean something like a 20 unit condo/apartment complex dedicated to STRs?

      Good question.  I would say anything sleeping 10 or more and with 3000 feet or more is in that category.  We have several of these, and it’s so frustrating that $200 a night is all we can get right now.  The cleaning fees are enormous and of course that factors in to the total.

      When the cleaning fee is equal to two nights’ rent, you’ve got a problem.


       Ouch $200 a night? Is that weekdays or weekends too?

      What do you attribute thos to? Saturation? Less demand?


       Complete saturation plus less demand.  


       Double Whammy!


      Five years ago, buyers were saying "hey the numbers still work great even if demand declines 10 percent...my revenues will only drop 10 percent."

      Actually, if demand declines 10 percent, and supply increases 10 percent, you could be looking at a 50 percent cut very easily, as many are finding out right now.

      Some expensive lessons in economics.  

      [email protected]806-672-7102
      SMOKY MOUNTAIN FALLS INC.51 Review
      WebsiteView Page
      1Reply
    • John UnderwoodPro Member
      Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
      6mo
      Quote from @Collin Hays:
      Quote from @John Underwood:
      Quote from @Collin Hays:
      Quote from @John Underwood:
      Quote from @Collin Hays:
      Quote from @Michael Baum:

      Hey @Collin Hays, I do enjoy your reports as well!

      I was wondering, what do you mean by large multi family?

      Do you mean huge cabins that sleep 40 that can accommodate several families or do you mean something like a 20 unit condo/apartment complex dedicated to STRs?

      Good question.  I would say anything sleeping 10 or more and with 3000 feet or more is in that category.  We have several of these, and it’s so frustrating that $200 a night is all we can get right now.  The cleaning fees are enormous and of course that factors in to the total.

      When the cleaning fee is equal to two nights’ rent, you’ve got a problem.


       Ouch $200 a night? Is that weekdays or weekends too?

      What do you attribute thos to? Saturation? Less demand?


       Complete saturation plus less demand.  


       Double Whammy!


      Five years ago, buyers were saying "hey the numbers still work great even if demand declines 10 percent...my revenues will only drop 10 percent."

      Actually, if demand declines 10 percent, and supply increases 10 percent, you could be looking at a 50 percent cut very easily, as many are finding out right now.

      Some expensive lessons in economics.  


      Yep and you can't just pivot from a STR to a LTR on a cabin in the Smokies.

      You'll either take a loss on income and maybe make up the difference every year or sell for a loss.

      0Reply
  • Andrew SteffensBusiness Member
    Tampa, FL · Member since 2022 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6mo

    Interesting the smaller properties here are more congested. There are more of them in general and it is a lower barrier to entry. Larger properties do exponentially better as they are harder to find in general with less total inventory in the good STR areas, and also are more expensive so a smaller buyer pool.

    [email protected]813-563-0877
    Vacation Rentals of Florida53 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
    • Collin HaysBusiness Member
      OP
      Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
      6mo
      Quote from @Andrew Steffens:

      Interesting the smaller properties here are more congested. There are more of them in general and it is a lower barrier to entry. Larger properties do exponentially better as they are harder to find in general with less total inventory in the good STR areas, and also are more expensive so a smaller buyer pool.

      This year, our best performers are 1000 square foot cabins with a cheap cleaning fee.
      [email protected]806-672-7102
      SMOKY MOUNTAIN FALLS INC.51 Review
      WebsiteView Page
      3Reply
  • Caleb Brown
    Real Estate Agent · Kansas City · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6mo

    Always enjoy reading, hopefully the Summer ticks up for you guys

    1Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free