Branson, MO · Member since 2014 · 27 posts · 28 votes
Who else has been able to leave their job and have freedom in their life from owning vacation rentals listing on Airbnb and Homeaway? I live in Branson, MO and love my business. Who else is out there?
I'll do $500k gross in vacation rents this year, and $1mil next, averaging more then $150k/door/year. No problem leaving my day job, but in the short term I have definitely created another one!
@Nancy Bachety in general I see VRBO users planning a bit more ahead. Nearly all of the 30 day or more rentals come from VRBO and well in advance, months or more before the rental date. Airbnb seems to be far more last minute with only days in advance, sometimes a week. Far shorter time frames as well, usually only a week or less from Airbnb.
@Kyle Miller nearly 3 years now in Melbourne Beach. It's really an undiscovered gem on Florida's Space Coast, nowhere near the crowds of a Daytona and I think we have nicer beaches. But still close enough to drive to Canaveral or the Orlando Theme Parks. Happy to chat, just let me know!
@Monique Davis My experience is in long term rentals in Whitefish. Only certain areas in Whitefish are zoned for short term rentals (i.e. The Railway District). So they opportunities are limited in downtown then you have other areas like the mountain which is another option. I've been looking into the short term rental opportunity. (Currently the shortest term I can do based on rental location in downtown is 30 days.) Based on conversations I've had with other investors and property managers the higher end approach is the way to go since you are competing with a lot higher end hotel/resort accommodations and people want that with the added bonus of having the entire place and/or place and yard to themselves. More than happy to chat more.
Regarding short-term rentals (especially in the Central Florida and Space Coast regions), what sort of properties are you guys looking for? As a newbie, it's kind of hard to gauge what the "sweet spot" is. I see a few people mentioning that your short-term doesn't have to be in an area you would necessarily rent yourself, but I would assume that short-term rentals in the nicer areas (especially areas where young professionals love to hangout/live, and where tourists frequent) would be ideal.
I think there's a difference between not near you physically as in another city and a place that you wouldn't stay in because of the neighborhood or proximity to attractions.
Personally I don't think I'd invest in a property to rent that I wouldn't want to stay in myself. But that's not to say I wouldn't invest in property that isn't near me, I do that with all my vacation rentals, I'm not in the same city.
I have been researching long term rental buy and holds in the Central Florida region, but have more and more been considering going the Short term VR route. I live in the Ocala area, and have been evaluating surrounding areas and resources to weigh to pro's and cons of long term and short term viability. I have a partner that is more old school, and I know the idea of the short term vacation rentals is too risky to him. I am hoping to find a property that I can use an FHA loan to acquire and live in / manage as a Short term vacation rental on AirBnB etc, to prove the business model to him. Backup plans for it include resorting to flipping, or long term rentals/hold for 1-3 years and exit with appreciation.
Does anyone have advice for a % rule or anything? Like, you should be able to get .1% of purchase price per night? 100k house, should rent for $100/night? I know, market and amenities all vary, and HOAs etc. , but again, rough rule of thumb? 100k, 30yr mortgage, $600/mo, +$100 Ins, +100 taxes, +$150 electric, +$35 sewer/water, average it out, not including any capex looking at 1k/mo, then the $20 room cleaning between visitors, etc. So if you were able to KNOW you could rent it for 12 days out of the month to cover costs, then yes, you have potential for almost 2k upside a month.
Any input is greatly appreciated. I used rough numbers just to throw some figures together.
We just had a PM speak on vacation rentals vs annuals. According to his documentation, it appears some VR end up losing money whereas annuals are netting positive returns. However, once the VR has been active and started building up a clientele, he states the income will improve. On the example he gave us in writing, the VR netted -3. something % and the annual netted +3.something %. He did state he did not handle an VR that wanted terms less than one month. He also stated VR that do weekend or weekly rentals have LOTS of wear and tear on their units and compared them to motels.
I'm not so sure I buy all of what that speaker was saying @John Thedford at least not in my experience. Mostly because I think it's highly subjective and you can tailor the experience any way you like.
Let me suggest that in annual rental, in Florida, let's say you have someone that refuses to pay and you have to evict. And then they start delaying tactics. By the time they're out and you've got the rental turned around, you're 3 months down the road.
However in a VR situation, you've got the money up front and if they don't leave, now they've got to contend with Felony Defrauding an Innkeeper (Florida Statute 509.151.) With proper documentation and the help (hopefully) of your booking engine (Airbnb, etc) they're out in a matter of days, either with or without the assistance of the County Sheriff.
I'd agree with him on wear and tear generally but mostly on the furniture. I've not yet seen a difference between long term and VR on appliance, HVAC or structural components. And on the furniture wear and tear, buying correctly up front helps, damage warranties, etc.
The examples I gave came from a PM that handles over 500 rentals. I have no personal experience with VR. All of my rentals are annuals. Fortunately, I have only had two evictions in 5 years. Both went quickly and tenants were out in 30 days or less. Expenses for VR are substantially higher than annuals whether you employ a PM or not. The examples the speaker gave show a NOL for the VR and a small profit for the annual. I don't want to manage VR personally because of the extensive management involved.
The PR said himself he does not handle any VR less than 1 month therefore I would not consider him a source for data that @Ben Owens is seeking, since he's looking for airbnb and NOT monthly leases. They are completely different and I've had both. Ben, go to airdna.com for numbers you seek. You can extrapolate all the numbers you need to see what'll work for you. I noticed they added a new investment explorer section (for a fee). I found it very interesting and will be buying more properties this summer to furnish and run as a STR. I did this in 6 days in April and have had amazing success. I will be managing/cohosting for others too. airbnb lets you pass on cohost responsibilities to other superhosts. PM if you have specific questions and be sure to listen to the recent podcast on BP. And good luck.
The PR said himself he does not handle any VR less than 1 month therefore I would not consider him a source for data that @Ben Owens is seeking, since he's looking for airbnb and NOT monthly leases. They are completely different and I've had both. Ben, go to airdna.com for numbers you seek. You can extrapolate all the numbers you need to see what'll work for you. I noticed they added a new investment explorer section (for a fee). I found it very interesting and will be buying more properties this summer to furnish and run as a STR. I did this in 6 days in April and have had amazing success. I will be managing/cohosting for others too. airbnb lets you pass on cohost responsibilities to other superhosts. PM if you have specific questions and be sure to listen to the recent podcast on BP. And good luck.
Very good. Where are you buying? Any trouble with restrictions? FL has a state law that now prohibits municipalities from stopping VR, but they CAN regulate them. We now have Cape Coral looking at regulating VR. That is my primary investing area, but I only do annuals there so no issue at this time (until they stick their hand in annuals as well).
The newest podcast(really inspirational what she pulled off and is doing now) is what re-opened my eyes to the STR. That had been one of my primary targets when initially evaluating getting into real estate, due to my fairly central location in Florida. Upon connection with my old school investor/mentor/partner(much like Zeona McIntyre's friend that funded her first purchase-unknowing of what she would use it for), shifted more towards the investment parameters(based off of LTR numbers) he was familiar and comfortable working with. I suppose I had let it slip from my mind since most of the podcasts referring to AirBnb STR etc were all dated by the time I started listening to them. I appreciate the offer to reach out to you, and will take you up on that after I explore airdna,com a bit.
Hello All, I am interested in the vacation rentals in the Melbourne area mentioned at the onset in particular with the increase in vacation activity. We have just purchased a hotel on the beach in which we are selling unit weeks but NOT your typical waste of money timeshare or even fractional ownership. My question is for those that live in the area; what is the market I should be targeting for those that VR / ownership in your city? @Nancy you mentioned the summertime are Floridians? So you're saying we like to stay in our own backyard just far enough to feel like a minivaca? And for the season where do you see they are coming from? Appreciate your insight.
@Ben Owens Ha, we pretty much share the same motivations. I, too, was pondering if there were any rule of thumbs, especially after listening to Zeona's podcast (which was great).
@Nancy Bachety What is your experience with AirDNA? Do you think they're a reliable source of data? I stumbled across them and a few other similar services, but I wasn't sure about the accuracy of their reports.
@John Thedford Undecided where at this time- it's a newer way of evaluating properties but I will be studying the price of RE vs. cost of rentals. Basically, wherever I want to spend time where it makes sense. I'm open to suggestions. I purposely bought in a county in FL with lower tourist tax rates and no HOA's. The ordinance references weekly rentals of 7 days or more but it turns out there is no where in the text that states it (as per local attorney). The municipality sent me a letter to register but that is the extent. Of course, I have an exit plan (don't all RE investors?) and for a W-2 wage earner, I have a welcome tax shelter (and vacation home).
@Ben Owens check out Debi Hertert's podcast Hosting Your Home. She's from Portland and one episode she outlines how that municipality stopped turning their backs and started collecting money from the hosts. It's bound to happen as they realize the terrific possible tax income from in, so long as the hotel industry doesn't win their fight against them.
This is going to effect the supply of annuals as more investors get in the STR game. Time will tell.
@Corlan M. I only have surface experience so far with airdna and I'm not familiar with others like them. But I know how to do research on airbnb as well as selling prices on houses so I will cross reference.
@MarZia RiVera I am interested in hearing what your business plan is for the hotel. And I don't know firsthand yet about the summertime rentals for Floridians - I was only told that. Buy yes, that is the thought - to get away to the shore.
@MarZia RiVera when I get bookings from people in FL the tend to be from within about 100 miles of the VR I'd say, give or take. I have found through anecdote that Floridians really fall into three camps, those that don't like the water at all, those that prefer rivers and those that prefer ocean.
I'm interested to see how your weekly rentals go, currently my average stay across all rentals is 6.3 nights, with a couple of 30 day stay outliers in there.
What sort of yearly return -%-do you all get on your investments and what locations have you found to be lucrative? I had a rental property but am tired of this business and am thinking of trying out vacation rentals. How did you all get started and are there any books or any information you could suggest that one reads to learn about how to get into the business? How did you all start? Can one make a living out of this?
82.5% blended occupancy rate for the first 4 months of 2017, but there are outliers in there, that number will come down a bit as the summer gets averaged in. The 30 day stays are usually snowbirds who take a unit for an entire month.
First time poster here. Learning a lot from this thread!
I'm an experienced property manager and agent based in Boston. For my first investment I'm exploring vacation rentals in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine, most likely with a partner. Since I live and work in Boston I wouldn't be available for maintenance, regular turnover, etc.
Now I've spoken with various vacation rental managers (who were all great - don't get me wrong) and I feel like I could easily handle a lot of the rental responsibilities from home. I think I could handle the booking through Airbnb or similar avenues, and be available via phone during the renters' stay.
From what I see, my only needs are a) a vendor list and b) a person or company to handle turnover. Part b is the one I'm struggling to grasp. Am I overthinking this? Are there property managers out there who simply can serve as my eyes and ears? Do I only need to find a reliable cleaning company? Or am I better off just handing the keys over to a full-time vacation rental manager?
Please fire away with any insight! I sincerely appreciate it.