Advice on Short-Term Rental Neighbor Issue

Advice on Short-Term Rental Neighbor Issue

Rental Property Investor · OR · Member since 2013 · 5 posts · 13 votes

We purchased a second home in AZ and using it as a vacation rental when we are not in town. We aren't located inside an HOA and our rental complies with all local laws and ordinances. After we purchased the home, we learned there are a couple of other STR's in the neighborhood who have caused problems for the neighbors. The next door neighbor in particular was upset we were going to be a STR. I explained to the neighbors I understood their concerns (which was primarily parties and late night noise) and that we are not running a party house and will be enforcing rules - no loud parties, quiet hours after 10 pm, parking limited to driveway. I gave them my contact information and told them I would promptly address issues. After hosting for a few months, we decided to hire a professional short-term property manager to manage the property as we had one issue with a group who left a beer can outside the neighbor's driveway and knocked on the neighbor's door asking if they could borrow an item, which resulted in a long stream of texts where the neighbor wanted us to be sure we knew this was unacceptable.

Fast forward 6 months, we've mostly had great guests, but there have been a few inconsiderate guests who were either up late talking outside or decided to invite a few extra people over and have their visitors park on the street. The neighbor is still contacting me directly to let me know of any issues. In the spirit of trying to be a good neighbor, I've been acting as a liaison between her and the property management company. In every instance, we've responded promptly and issued a warning to the guest, and the behavior stopped. The property manager also sent out security multiple times to check on guests after this neighbor complained about an issue, which often results in nothing since there is no visible disturbance from the street. The neighbor is confrontational and has been having increasingly verbally aggressive confrontations with our guests. We've had a few offended guests in the last month contact the property management company to complain about the neighbor. I'm also starting to see bad negative reviews and concerned we're going to see more.

We had a guest this past weekend who invited a few local friends over which may have put them over occupancy by a few people. The neighbor texted to complain about the extra 4 cars parked on the street. We questioned the guests about the extra cars, but they denied they belonged to their visitors. We knew they were probably lying, but property manager sent out security anyway, but since nothing looked out of place, they decided they didn't have much choice to let it ride until it became late enough to where they were violating quiet hours. Neighbor complained they were being allowed to have a party which violated our rules. It appeared they were all in the backyard playing in the pool and grilling (I have a driveway security camera and couldn't hear any noise either). 5 minutes after the 10:00 pm quiet time began, guests were cleaning up in the yard to go inside and neighbor verbally attacked over the block fence wall letting them letting them know she was sick of vacation renters. She has texted me to tell me she is 'done' and demanded we either move to AZ and occupy the house full-time or sell it to someone who will.

I believe this next door neighbor is going to actively sabotage our future guest's experiences with this home. We will always stand by our neighbors and address any inappropriate guest behavior and I certainly understand their concern, but this one particular neighbor is confrontational and aggressive and is making unreasonable demands of our property management company and our guests. She has also begun to threaten to call the police. None of the other neighbors are particularly excited it's a vacation rental, but I have not had any other neighbor conflicts. 

I am looking for any advice on how to address things with this neighbor. While 3 or 4 of her complaints have been reasonable, the rest have been unreasonable and overblown. I've already given her contact information to contact the direct person to call security at our property management company. She is overly focused on our home and looking for a fight. I don't want every guest being hassled because they looked at her house wrong. 

We're past the point of me bringing over a bottle of wine to smooth things out. Any ideas on what we can do to protect our guests and investment?

4Reply
101 views

Most Popular Reply

Investor · The worst town to live in, KS · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
5y

Offer to buy their house.

See this reply in the discussion

42 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Specialist · Riverside, CA · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    I live next to an airbnb property and it is quite annoying, all the things the neighbor complained about happen on a regular basis and I don't complain because nothing will happen, just as in your case there is nothing obviously wrong with someone skateboarding up and down the driveway at 9:30 at night but it still gets annoying, and gets my dog barking every time.  You just have to unfortunately deal with the annoying guests.  Just as there is nothing they can do to stop the annoyance there isn't really anything you can do to stop them from being annoyed, you are inconvenienced far less than they are, and that is going to come with the territory on STRs

  • Collin HaysBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    If you are in a mostly residential neighborhood with a STR, get ready for some flack, whether or not zoning allows the STR. I would be highly annoyed if my next door neighbor turned his house into a hotel. While you may have strict rules and a manager, your neighbors will still be able to write a NYT Best seller of all of the things they will witness over the next 2 years.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    5y

    I'd try and not let it bother me and build a taller privacy fence for the backyard to prevent her from stick her head over the fence to harass your tenants. I'd spin it that you are doing this for her so that noise is minimized.

    Might want another camera facing toward her house so you can document anything she is doing.

  • Investor · The worst town to live in, KS · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    Offer to buy their house.

  • Rental Property Investor · North Fork, NY · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 631 votes
    5y

    I’m sorry to hear about your difficult neighbor. In my message before checkin, (after booking)  I would include words to the effect of “stay away from my neighbor on the left, Mary, and adhere to quiet time, in effect do what you’re supposed to do.“ Include a gentle reminder about the existence of exterior cameras, correct car-count, correct number of guests, correct behavior. “Not only will you be having a good time at my house, you’ll be in compliance and avoid my neighbor, Mary.” Make it cordial but you can effectively use her as a local rule enforcer, in your guests eyes. 
    And stop answering her calls. Eventually she’ll call your PM. The days of trying to make nice are over for you. That’s why you’re paying your PM now. 

  • Luke CarlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y

    @Heather Collier. That was very long I did my best but this is just proving everyone's point that it's best to STR in Vacation only areas where people don't live

  • Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ and Rehoboth Beach DE · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    First, have you looked into a noise monitor for the front and back yards?  It doesn't record conversations, just decibel level, so it's legal.  It will send you alerts when loud noise occurs, and you can call your guests immediately. You will then have proof of noise or lack thereof. One of the companies mentioned on this forum is NoiseAware. 
    Second, don't allow your guests to have visitors to the property.  That seems where a lot of the problems are.  I certainly wouldn't want a bunch of non-paying extra guests using my pool and house, even if it's not considered a party.
    Third, if the above don't work, it may be time to have a lawyer write a letter to the neighbor about harassment laws, before she escalates this to calling the cops. Parking multiple cars on the street is legal. Talking normally in your backyard is legal. There is no HOA, so if you're abiding by city laws, she can't continue to harass you.

  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    5y

    I agree with @Lauren Kormylo, I would start to go on the offensive. If you are following all the laws of the city, there is no HOA etc. All you can do is your best to mitigate.

    Have you spoken with the other neighbors in the immediate vicinity? What do they have to say?

    I also agree with @John Underwood on the taller fence and cameras to watch her. Record all those interactions. They make for good ammo if you need to get a lawyer involved.

  • Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ and Rehoboth Beach DE · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y
    FYI, Phoenix has a legal height limit of 6 ft on backyard walls or fences, I think it's the same in Scottsdale.  If you go over that, you risk her reporting that infraction and having to take it down. 
  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Lauren Kormylo:
    FYI, Phoenix has a legal height limit of 6 ft on backyard walls or fences, I think it's the same in Scottsdale.  If you go over that, you risk her reporting that infraction and having to take it down. 

    You could also use those fast growing evergreen trees that people use for privacy.

  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    5y

    Yeah! Like the Green Giant Arborvitae

    https://www.arborday.org/Trees...

    Up to 3 feet a year and they live a long time. Ours at our home are nearly 30 feet tall and over 70 years old. Look great and healthy.

  • Rental Property Investor · OR · Member since 2013 · 5 posts · 13 votes
    5y

    Thank you for the great advice..we definitely have no party rules clearly listed for check-in, limit to cars, no parties, etc. We also have a noise monitor installed in the property.

    I have met a few other neighbors who range from cool to very friendly, but none are complaining to the extent of this neighbor. Mostly neighbors want assurance we won't advertise the property as a party house and want a way to have late night noise issues resolved quickly. AZ is very pro-STR so there is no specific zoning areas for STRs, unless you are in an HOA (where they can be banned).

    I do feel for her frustration and my reaching out and providing a listening ear to her long complaints may have given her a false sense that she has a greater say in how our property is managed than she actually does. I agree with Nancy, it's time to let the PM do it's job and I need to step aside and not accept her calls. Great suggestion on documenting in case we need to look into harassment laws. 

    I heard from PM today this same issue happened at three other Phoenix homes where neighbor yelled at guests. There are a lot of Californians heading into AZ looking to rent houses with friends because of COVID lockdowns. I have no doubt that is adding fuel to this fire. We've had a couple of party groups this past month where that had not been an issue until this summer. We've raised our rates and added utility fee to try to discourage the party groups and are already seeing more families book again.

    We are working on planting more trees to block her view. I would love to put a taller fence or even screen panels, but I don't think it's allowed in Phoenix if over 6 feet. 

  • Member since 2020 · 54 posts · 30 votes
    5y

    @Heather Collier I'm not sure what type of area it is and why people go there. my air B&B is located a few blocks from the ocean so the ocean is the main draw. I used to offer my backyard and a barbecue grill as part of rental I eliminated that after the first year simply because it can cause outdoor disturbances. you have a pool, that's the outdoor disturbance all of the other things that you mentioned she complained about are non issues you will never get in trouble for them that's why I've not heard you mention that the police have been called there's nothing to do but how do you keep your tenants indoor if you have a pool, that's the

    key. I would block your phone number so the neighbor can't call you anymore enough is enough and this is just putting stress on you then make sure you're Airbnb states 25 and older put some verbage in there that indicates extra visitors will be charged, pool closes at 10 quiet area family area ,no parties allowed. every little bit helps. Good luck

  • Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Heather Collier

    Sounds to me like this is going to be more work than it’s worth. Every time you have someone in there you’ll be worrying about the neighbor.

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    5y

    @Heather Collier you told her there would be no problems and there are problems. You told her to reach out to you and you would take care of it, now you are going to push her off on a property manager. I got the feeling in your post that you were trying to down play any guest incidents. I get it, from your perspective, who cares if someone has a little party and parks on the road. If you lived next door to it, you may see it differently. The truth is a short term rental is never going to be the best neighbor to have. That is the reality, so stop hiding from it.

    My advice:

    1. As others said, have the tallest fence allowable by law. Plant fast growing evergreens. Good fences make good neighbors.

    2. Your cameras should easily show if they are exceeding the occupancy limit at the property. If you can't see people entering the property, change location or add more cameras. If you advertise "no parties", maybe define occupancy limit or say no "no visitors over X number of people". Be clear in the house rules and enforce it. 

    3. Stop telling the neighbor what they want to hear. If you are going to allow parties, tell the neighbor that. (A small get together at the pool is a pool party, by the way.) If you don't want to be called about noise, tell the neighbor that. There will be people in the pool and they will make noise. A STR pool gets used much more often than owner occupied. If the violates noise ordinance, tell her to call the police, not you. If the guests or you are not breaking city ordinance, tell the neighbor you will not intervene. Tell the neighbor anyone can park on the road and you have no control over it. As far as her request to have you occupy or sell, tell her you plan to operate this as a short term rental for the next 20 years. I hope you understand my point, that you are the one setting expectations that you are not meeting. Lower the expectations.

    Be nice to her, but be firm and clear. Make it understood you want to help her, but there are limits to what you can do. Agree with any frustration she shares with you. Even if you don't agree, people have trouble arguing when you agree with them. "Yes that noise at the pool would be very frustrating to me. Unfortunately I can't do anything about it." or "No I cannot sell the property. We hare keeping it as a short term rental for 20 years, sorry." Even if you dislike her and she is causing trouble, make every effort to win her over. Send her a gift card to a local restaurant with a "thank you for your understanding". Even if she is not understanding and not deserving of the thank you. People raise or lower the expectation you place on them. If you start getting more argumentative with her, she will start taking it out on your guests, which will show up in your reviews.

  • Rental Property Investor · OR · Member since 2013 · 5 posts · 13 votes
    5y
    @Joe Splitrock thank you, you make a lot of great points and agree that I need to do a better job setting reasonable expectations because her sensitivity to activity on the property is much greater than mine. We do not allow parties/gatherings, but guests must demonstrate party like behavior (loud music, excess noise, drinking out front, etc.) We set the maximum occupancy to 14 people at all times and limit of 4 cars which usually takes care of any potential party issues. We've had a couple guests ignore that rule and invite people over anyway. We promptly responded by sending security out to have their visitors and cars removed before it got too late into the evening. The neighbor lost her temper this weekend because the guest did invite people over, but denied the cars across the street belonged to their visitors. Since they weren't making excess noise and it appeared they were close to or just under occupancy, the PM said there wasn't a lot they could short of beating on the front door and demanding inside to take a look. There have been a couple of guests who ignored our 10:00 pm rule on noise and we responded quickly to shut down the noise.

    The main issue with this neighbor is 30-40% of what she reports a reasonable person would find unacceptable. The other 60% are minor annoyances that are blown up into major issues so it is now hard to take her seriously. We'll look to install more trees and hedges to block out her view. I like your gift card idea. Our next group is checking in for a full month, so hopefully that will give her time to cool down and take a break from the weekender groups who have been booking these past couple months.

  • Collin HaysBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    If someone bought the house next door to me and turned it into a hotel, I am pretty sure there would be no such thing as a "minor annoyance."  

    Realize, you have opened a commercial enterprise in a residential neighborhood, with people coming and going all of the time.  Your neighbors probably have a chunk of their financial nest egg tied up in their homes.  Their property values are at risk with this. Grand kids come to visit.  They like to get out and walk their dogs.  They like to open the windows at night to have some cool air. 

    Meanwhile, a mini-Hilton has opened up a few feet away that has an outdoor pool.  Music, drinking, drugs, fornication, and all sorts of other debauchery are going to be taking place.  You can't have enough cameras and monitors to stop it, nor will a book of policies and procedures prevent it.

    Have fun.

  • Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 17 votes
    5y

    With all respect, you plunked an unsuitable business operation down in a residential neighborhood, and then dare to complain about injured neighbors who object to a steady stream of strangers traipsing in and out next door to them? What kind of entitlement allows you to think this is OK and you’re the injured party? I simply cannot wrap my mind around this incredible lack of empathy.

    Do you live next to an STR? Imagine if you did? Your property values will drop like a rock and you will have to put up with all that goes with living next to an STR.

    How is it that your financial gain requires complaisance of those whose quality of life you damage with your enterprise?

    Perhaps  you should rethink the entire project and consider (sincerely) the impact your retail enterprise might have on those around you. 

  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    5y

    @Henry Phipps, did you create an account just to trash @Heather Collier? She is operating a legal STR in an area where it is not prohibited. She is working to make things better between her and her neighbor.

    BTW: We live right next door to a STR. We have no issue with it and our property values are not impacted at all. You really don't know what you are talking about.

  • Rental Property Investor · North Fork, NY · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 631 votes
    5y

    @Henry Phipps Michael is not alone. What "due respect" did you offer? We maintain our STR better than many other homeowners do. Way better. We add value to the neighborhood. We follow the rules and pay taxes. We employ local people. We are empathetic to misinformed people who hold NIMBY views. They're the ones who think all guests are party animals and ruin property values. They can also be found stalking on STR forums.

  • Rental Property Investor · OR · Member since 2013 · 5 posts · 13 votes
    5y

    Actually, I followed the helpful advice of one of the previous posters, Joe Splitrock and contacted the neighbor to apologize for setting unrealistic expectations. I also invited her to speak directly with our property manager and told her we will always do our best to enforce the rules as long as a clear violation has taken place. I have had no further issues with this neighbor for the past 6 months. In fact, she recently took the initiative to contact me to let me know all of our guests have been "just lovely". We were able to correct the problems we had by posting clear signage and including check-in instructions to guests that noise after 10 pm is not tolerated, and guest is responsible for any late night noise violations or city fines. Setting realistic expectations with this neighbor, and allowing her an avenue to complain if there is a problem in the future is what was needed. Also, setting realistic expectations about our neighbor's concerns with our guests was also necessary. I can't guarantee we won't ever have a future problem guest, but I disagree this upset neighbor wasn't a solvable problem. As far as my home lowering property values -the exact opposite has happened. We've poured $60K into the yard and the exterior is immaculate all the time. If anything, that has raised the property values. I firmly believe short-term rentals can be successful if managed well.

  • Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 17 votes
    5y
    Actually I did open an account to respond to something that seemed beyond outrageous. Instead of trashing anyone the idea is to raise questions and awareness of how this money making venture is affecting those nearby--whether said venture is "legal" or not. (We know this powerful industry is spending streams of gold to make sure ordinances and laws favor STRs). 

    To say to hell with anyone else as long as I'm profiting an ethical way to operate a business?  Where is the compassion? Where is the empathy?

    Completely missing.

    The owner mentions instances when guests broke rules, held parties and even lied--which likely means it's sometimes out of compliance and therefore likely illegal. She glosses over these infractions as is they don't matter. Yet obviously neighbors are having to live through repeated infractions.


    I'm so very glad someone lives next to an STR that isn't bothersome, because I know of no one who has had that experience and we live in ground zero STR land. All I hear are complaints.

    Moreover I believe most people would much rather have neighbors than a long string of strangers on holiday-coming and going. They want a community not different strangers every weekend and an empty house the rest of the week. Where are the neighbors who are involved in the community, who care, who keep an eye on things, show concern about the elders, who welcome newcomers, who know your name? How about neighbors who have kids who go to the schools? When did our communities degenerate into hotel rows?

    STRs have a huge impact on communities. If you're going to profit from one, then at least be sure your guests are in compliance at all times. Moreover you should respect your neighbor's right to let you know when things are not, instead of trashing them for interfering with your money making venture, ignoring them or worse, devising vicious methods to silence them.

    How is it right to blame the poor soul living next to the party house/hotel for wanting the quality of life they signed up for? My guess is the owner does not want to think about this at all. It's not convenient. It's not profitable, and somehow they feel entitled to that profit no matter how it affects others.

    Ironically I've noticed a lot of  people who consider themselves compassionate, concerned "Progressives" have these ventures. It's hard to imagine how they can even justify the practice or their lack of empathy, compassion or even concern for those affected.

    My ideal is that the owners will embrace true ethical behavior,  compassion, empathy and an awareness of how one's retail ventures might affect those around them, and act accordingly, instead of blaming the victims. 

  • Member since 2021 · 67 posts · 52 votes
    5y

    Tough situation but some great ideas in this thread. I think the best thing you can do is control the controllables and make sure your neighbor knows everything you're doing to make things better. I would clearly explain that you can't make things perfect, but here's the list of things you are doing to help mitigate issues. Updating your description in the rental listing can help to deter unwanted partiers and make it clear it's a quiet/family neighborhood. 

  • Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 17 votes
    5y

    I'm glad the neighbors are placated. But despite well behaved guests, STRs still trash communities. As mentioned earlier, guests are not neighbors or community members. I'm all for the type 1 STRs where the people who live in a location offer rooms or a granny flat, but those where the owner is absent are terrible for communities, whether or not guests are offending neighbors. Bottom line. 

  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    5y
    Oh the humanity!! What about the children!!!
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.