Advice on Short-Term Rental Neighbor Issue

Advice on Short-Term Rental Neighbor Issue

Rental Property Investor · OR · Member since 2013 · 5 posts · 13 votes

We purchased a second home in AZ and using it as a vacation rental when we are not in town. We aren't located inside an HOA and our rental complies with all local laws and ordinances. After we purchased the home, we learned there are a couple of other STR's in the neighborhood who have caused problems for the neighbors. The next door neighbor in particular was upset we were going to be a STR. I explained to the neighbors I understood their concerns (which was primarily parties and late night noise) and that we are not running a party house and will be enforcing rules - no loud parties, quiet hours after 10 pm, parking limited to driveway. I gave them my contact information and told them I would promptly address issues. After hosting for a few months, we decided to hire a professional short-term property manager to manage the property as we had one issue with a group who left a beer can outside the neighbor's driveway and knocked on the neighbor's door asking if they could borrow an item, which resulted in a long stream of texts where the neighbor wanted us to be sure we knew this was unacceptable.

Fast forward 6 months, we've mostly had great guests, but there have been a few inconsiderate guests who were either up late talking outside or decided to invite a few extra people over and have their visitors park on the street. The neighbor is still contacting me directly to let me know of any issues. In the spirit of trying to be a good neighbor, I've been acting as a liaison between her and the property management company. In every instance, we've responded promptly and issued a warning to the guest, and the behavior stopped. The property manager also sent out security multiple times to check on guests after this neighbor complained about an issue, which often results in nothing since there is no visible disturbance from the street. The neighbor is confrontational and has been having increasingly verbally aggressive confrontations with our guests. We've had a few offended guests in the last month contact the property management company to complain about the neighbor. I'm also starting to see bad negative reviews and concerned we're going to see more.

We had a guest this past weekend who invited a few local friends over which may have put them over occupancy by a few people. The neighbor texted to complain about the extra 4 cars parked on the street. We questioned the guests about the extra cars, but they denied they belonged to their visitors. We knew they were probably lying, but property manager sent out security anyway, but since nothing looked out of place, they decided they didn't have much choice to let it ride until it became late enough to where they were violating quiet hours. Neighbor complained they were being allowed to have a party which violated our rules. It appeared they were all in the backyard playing in the pool and grilling (I have a driveway security camera and couldn't hear any noise either). 5 minutes after the 10:00 pm quiet time began, guests were cleaning up in the yard to go inside and neighbor verbally attacked over the block fence wall letting them letting them know she was sick of vacation renters. She has texted me to tell me she is 'done' and demanded we either move to AZ and occupy the house full-time or sell it to someone who will.

I believe this next door neighbor is going to actively sabotage our future guest's experiences with this home. We will always stand by our neighbors and address any inappropriate guest behavior and I certainly understand their concern, but this one particular neighbor is confrontational and aggressive and is making unreasonable demands of our property management company and our guests. She has also begun to threaten to call the police. None of the other neighbors are particularly excited it's a vacation rental, but I have not had any other neighbor conflicts. 

I am looking for any advice on how to address things with this neighbor. While 3 or 4 of her complaints have been reasonable, the rest have been unreasonable and overblown. I've already given her contact information to contact the direct person to call security at our property management company. She is overly focused on our home and looking for a fight. I don't want every guest being hassled because they looked at her house wrong. 

We're past the point of me bringing over a bottle of wine to smooth things out. Any ideas on what we can do to protect our guests and investment?

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Investor · The worst town to live in, KS · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
6y

Offer to buy their house.

See this reply in the discussion

42 Replies

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  • Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 17 votes
    5y
    Wow Sarcasm. Brilliant also useful.

  • Property Manager · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2018 · 280 posts · 221 votes
    5y

    @Heather Collier I am glad to hear that you were able to smooth things over and get to a place where all parties are at peace.

    Many people disregard the neighbors when purchasing a property that they intended to turn into a STR. And whether you are in compliance or not, the reality is that an unsatisfied neighbor can make things very difficult or get your place shut down (in some states), it's not worth the trouble.

    The best course of action is to ensure that you are in an area where STRs are welcomed. I personally always like to invest in commercial areas where I know I’m surrounded by businesses or neighbors who are used to new people.

    Then, make sure all the neighbors know what you are doing and how to reach out to you if they see something strange or that they are uncomfortable with. Open communication from day 1, responsiveness, and quick action to fix things are key. HOWEVER, you must come to terms that some neighborhoods and areas will not be friendly to STRs, especially very residential neighborhoods. Once the neighbors have decided they don’t want to welcome STRs, there is very little you can do and I personally like to respect that and look for another area to invest.

    Cheers!

  • Rental Property Investor · North Fork, NY · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 631 votes
    5y

    Seriously, this guy is only trying to "raise awareness and empathy" as if owners have never even thought about these topics? Seems to be he's the one who is being closed-minded while living in a "ground zero" STR neighborhood and basing every other single STR neighborhood as the same. It'd be a good idea for him to read the forums and get educated on how most STR owners take care of their neighbors and communities, including this forum's author. And someone should tell him to stay in hotels if he ever gets out of ground zero, he's not the kind of guest anyone would ever want to host. Though we have empathy for him. Stalker.

  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    5y

    My fault everyone. I know better than to feed the trolls. Seriously, each forum on BiggerPockets have folks like this. They just come in and trash investors. Tell us that we are all pigs trying to capitalize on the poor folks just trying to get by.

    If you buy a mobile home park, do a bunch of work to fix up the place, you are nothing but a money grubbing evil real estate hack just trying to put down the folks living there.

    You are flipping a house, just the same. They just come here to dump on us no matter the actual truth.

  • Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 17 votes
    5y
    If you are referring to my comments. It's easy to call someone a troll when you disagree -- or even feel guilty. Personally I am fine with investors contributing to a community. But if the investment is detracting from the quality of life of the area locals, then there is a problem. This is not random hating on investors, it's calling out people who think they can step on other people's property rights because they are investing. Alternately there are those like an earlier poster who showed some consideration and responsiveness to locals affected by these investments. That is a good example. The original poster also indicates she went to some effort to work with locals to improve the situation. It's investors who don't care who think any kind of criticism is trolling who give STRs a bad reputation--and they have a terrible reputation in many areas of the world.
  • Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ and Rehoboth Beach DE · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    Well, I have a house next door that was long term rental for 15 or more years.  The last renter got hooked on drugs, and became a nutcase.  He wrote on the walls with his blood, and put wooden crosses in his back yard where he thought bodies were buried.  He went out in the street one night with a gun and was pointing it at an imaginary person laying on the pavement, and proceeded to yell at him.  He fired his gun from his backyard a few times, and would knock on neighbors' windows at night, yelling that somebody wanted to kill them.

    We called the police many times, but if they didn't catch him in the act, they wouldn't arrest him.  Our word against his. They did take him in for mental health and drug rehab a few times, but he was always back out after a few weeks, and went right back on the drugs.  He was a former firefighter on disability, and he and his father had connections in the police department.  

    He kept wanting to come over and talk to my husband.  My husband started answering the doorbell with a gun in his hand, and had to tell him to get off our property and never come back.  The guy finally did something he could be arrested for, and they took him away.  That whole thing took almost a year.  I would have LOVED to have short term renters next door who only stayed a few days or weeks, instead of a nightmare neighbor everyday for a year who made us live in fear of what he would do next.
    @Paul Sandhu  Top that!  

  • Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 17 votes
    5y

    Sigh. Naturally there can be bad neighbors. It's a no-brainer. Doubtless you will find bad neighbor stories if you look for them. However all I have to do is walk up the street and talk to folks who have had horrible nightmare experiences with STRs. One couple who built a home moved out due to an STR that moved in next to them. Another family sued the owner of an STR because their property values went down. A friend in the hood had guys humping a trash cans, another drunk ones that cursed them the list goes on and on. People come to STRs to party and in many cases to misbehave. It's pretty much guaranteed that there will be disturbances, whereas in 10 years of being in this neighborhood the only complaints we've had is about STRs. We've had great neighbors.

  • Rental Property Investor · North Fork, NY · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 631 votes
    5y

    @Lauren Kormylo I’m sorry for what you experienced. It must have been horrible. 
    @Michael Baum Sounds like this guy needs new friends and to expose himself to traveling outside of his STR neighborhood. His glass will always be half empty. Let's spend our time looking for another STR. I hear one might be for sale in his neighborhood. But then again, it sounds like only bad things happen there and our guests wouldn't like it.

  • Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 17 votes
    5y

    Not sure if the half full is meant for this poster. In case it is--I've traveled all over the world and have plenty of friends of various cultures and economic strata. So let's not diminish the message by trying to trash the messenger. The message is valid whether or not one wishes to hear it. Cheers! 

  • Real Estate Agent · Cupertino, CA · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    I will end the stp practice rent to a family long term or leave it vacant.

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbia, SC · Member since 2020 · 245 posts · 275 votes
    5y

    @Michael Baum you just have to have enough room for them because the get 15 feet wide.

  • Andrew HaneyPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Buckley, WA · Member since 2020 · 76 posts · 14 votes
    5y

    @Michael Baum

    Completely agree with @Michael Baum. An STR is nearly alway better cared for than a long term rental. The landscape must be perfect, house perfect and ... you get the point. If I were an investor or home buyer in the neighborhood I would think the house is one of the nicest around.

  • Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2018 · 405 posts · 474 votes
    5y

    This is one of the biggest problems with running a hotel in a residential neighborhood. No matter what you do, the hotel customers are going to piss off the neighbors. People who choose to live in residential neighborhoods don’t want to live next to a hotel.

    And please folks, spare us the arguments that it’s not a hotel and investors should do as they please and blah blah blah. Let’s be real here. If you want to run a hotel, then pony up the cost to run a a real hotel. If the residential neighbors don’t like you running a hotel next to their house, maybe you are the problem and not the neighbors. How about selling the house and buying a hotel? Haaaaa

  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    5y

    Good grief. We are not running hotels. A SFH used as a short term rental isn't the same as being next to a 90 room Hilton. We aren't hosting 200-300 people each night. Most of us are hosting families and the like. Yes you do see parties sometimes but that could happen at any neighbors house.

    Frankly, some people will never be happy with any kind of rental scenario, even long term. If you aren't an owner with skin in the game, they don't want you in their neighborhood. As a PM, do you drop clients when you get some complaints from neighbors about renters in a house you manage? Tell them they shouldn't rent their house in that area because the neighbors don't like it?

    I am guessing no you don't. You try and get great tenants and work with the neighbors on the problems to solve them. No difference with what short term renter owners do.

  • Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 17 votes
    5y
    We are fine with rentals where people actually LIVE in a home, but there is a Huge difference between a renter and an STR! Huge. It doesn't take 200 people coming through to disrupt a neighborhood or neighbors--a single group (family or not) can do that. Just a weekly stream of strangers can make locals feel less secure about their environment. We know people who had a constant party house next to them. There is one up the street where no one lives all week--but raucous strangers come in and out on weekends. What we see in our area are mainly hen and stag parties, but that is not the only reason for concern. They gut communities, can affect school attendance in an area. Bottom line they are commercial enterprises taking advantage of the area appeal at the cost of local quality of life and compromising of communities.  Honestly tired of the spin. AND why would locals object if there were no problems? Just to object? I think people have much better things to do.
    The bottom line is those who profit will not ever admit the damage their enterprises cause, because they are benefiting.


  • Rental Property Investor · Chapel Hill, NC · Member since 2019 · 120 posts · 119 votes
    5y

    @Heather Collier

    There is some great advice here. The only thing I would add is:

    Offer to buy the neighbors house. Explain that you're doing everything you can to be a responsible owner (cite your responsiveness), you're sorry they feel it's inadequate and that they are exasparated but that you are above and beyond complying with all local regulations, and that unfortunately it's not feasible for you to move to AZ nor sell the property. Instead, you'd be willing to consider purchasing their home if they're interested in selling.

    You never know - you might be able to get a second STR out of this!

  • Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 53 posts · 17 votes
    3y

    I am in agreement with Henry Phipps and people who hold similar positions.  I came to this thread because I have a situation a bit similar but not entirely.  I own a high quality single family rental in a cul-de-sac. There is another rental very next to me managed by Progress Residential who put in the capital investment just as we did and we have no issue with the tenants they have placed. However, neighbors have had problem with another rental property here.  It is meant to be a long term lease but we have seen multiple transcient groups of strangers let to live on the property a few weeks and perhaps a couple of months at times. There are multiple smokers who came to the front yard to smoke even though they have a fenced back yard, and 100+ feet away the cigarett smell flows over to my property. The trash cans have always been overflown that attract cats and trash got in to their very next door neighbor. Occasionally that tenant and their guest even took the liberty to get to other people's backyard to play or leave an icecream cone or sort in front of my property (trashy). A few years ago, one of the neighbors got seriously attacked by the dog of the tenant and the victim did not press charges. The owner appears to be an out of town LL per tax record and has been using a property manager.  I have raised awareness of these issues by calling the Propery Manager but I don't see any real effort in addressing it.  My own past tenant chatted with a neighbor that they were wondering why that house has so many transcient people constantly showing up but the tenant did not complain directly to me. Currently my property is listed for rent and I am very concerned that particular tenant will turn off my prospective renters. I do not allow dogs, cats, smokers and unauthorized occupants.  I don't know how much the LL know the real condition of the property.  I can tell you, most property has replaced their roof within the last few years, this one never did.  My property and Progress Residential have completely replaced the flooring that came with the house and did significant renovations, but this one never did.  No neighbors in our street would like to continue tolerate the constant stream of strangers from that rental property but few have took it far enough to resolve the situation.  I am contacting the Landlord to make him aware of the issues. I hope what he hears from me concerns him enough to instruct his PM to take action to disallow any sublet and smoking inside and of premise.  If I were the Landlord, a neighbor of my rental property contacts me about these problems, I will fire the PM and evict the non compliant tenants who allowed prolonged damage.  I will be very grateful to the reporting neighbor. 

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