Investing in Joshua tree
Rental Property Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2018 · 57 posts · 8 votes
Investing in Joshua tree
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Rental Property Investor · Landers, CA · Member since 2016 · 38 posts · 59 votes
5yHi @Fabian Martinez! To answer your questions...
Q: Do you need to purchase a lot/land to place a tiny home or camper in Joshua tree purpose utilizing as a short rental?
A: Yes, but SB county just started requiring vacation rental owners to get STR permits, and I don't believe they're granting permits to campers/trailers. You might be able to get away with it for a while, as they don't really have enough resources to enforce the permits yet, but I wouldn't count on this as a long-term strategy. Too risky, IMO.
Q: Do you need a permit for such minimal square footage, solar panels, water barrel, septic tanks?
A: Yes, you need a permit for everything now. If you want to get a STR permit, you will need to get permits through SB county for everything you build, to prove that your structure is livable and up to code. Otherwise, you will not be granted a STR permit.
Q: What is pros and cons and restrictions in San Bernardino county?
A: In terms of STRs, things used to be a lot more relaxed here and you could get away with more - yurts, campers/trailers, tents, weddings and events, etc. but now they are enforcing everything a lot more than they used to, and that will only continue to happen more in the future. The SB county permitting process is also very difficult and very slow, in my experience, both for STRs and for building permits. If you want to build a house from scratch here, you can expect the permitting process to take 7-9 months, from what I'm told...unless you're in the limits of the Town of Yucca Valley, which I hear is quicker.
The only pro to launching a STR in SB county that comes to mind is that currently, I think we're reasonably safe from STRs being banned completely here, due to the fact that there aren't really enough hotels here to accommodate the 3 million annual visitors that come to the JT National Park. But since covid, EVERYONE is trying to launch an Airbnb in the JT area, so I expect to have A LOT more STR competition pop up over the next couple of years. So plan for that. And we're not totally safe from restrictions, so it's still a risk, IMO.
Hope that helps!
58 Replies
- 5yMichael HaasBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Sammamish, 🌧️ Seattle Investor-Agent | 🤑 Helped 400+ Clients Invest in Real Estate | 🏘️ Owns 23 WA Rentals & Airbnbs | 🏗️ Built 5 DADU's | 📈 You Can Do It Too · Member since 2016 · 725 posts · 3k+ votes
@Jason Kudo wow - 20% YoY appreciation is no joke. As an investor though, the best time to buy a property is almost always "yesterday" :).
Small world! Scenic is a trip - half 80 year old Norwegians who have lived there off and on for decades, and half 20 & 30 something skiers and snowboarders like myself. The history of the railroad and Iron Goat is also really interesting. We love it up there.
HouseHack Seattle | Michael Haas & Team572 Reviews - Rental Property Investor · Landers, CA · Member since 2016 · 38 posts · 59 votes5y
@Michael Haas I have no idea what YoY appreciation Joshua Tree has seen as a whole, but would be curious to know this too! Do you mean for real estate in general, or for the Airbnb market? How might we find these sorts of numbers? Is this shown through Airdna? I had an account about 3 years ago, but I canceled it, and I believe they charge you a separate fee for each different town/neighborhood, so we only purchased the one for Yucca Valley.
- 5yMichael HaasBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Sammamish, 🌧️ Seattle Investor-Agent | 🤑 Helped 400+ Clients Invest in Real Estate | 🏘️ Owns 23 WA Rentals & Airbnbs | 🏗️ Built 5 DADU's | 📈 You Can Do It Too · Member since 2016 · 725 posts · 3k+ votes
@Kristi Kautz for YoY appreciation I was just talking about average sales prices (adjusted for square footage). Here in the Seattle area Brokerages, the MLS and the King County Realtors Association regularly publish that sort of data. You could also probably figure it out yourself if you were willing to pull all the (public) sales records into Microsoft Excel and do some math :).
The usually run numbers for whole cities or counties though (like the San Bernardino numbers Jason was kind enough to pull for us). The sample sizes are smaller so the data can be skewed, but I think the neighborhood-by-neighborhood appreciation numbers of specific areas, like Joshua Tree, are the most interesting! Really shows you which areas are attracting the most attention and growth in the larger county or metro market.
Cheers,
HouseHack Seattle | Michael Haas & Team572 Reviews - 5yJeff HubertPro MemberRealtor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2013 · 104 posts · 30 votes
@Annie Johnson ...thanks Annie!
- Realtor · Seward, AK · Member since 2017 · 136 posts · 79 votes5y
Can anyone recommend an agent? We are looking to pay cash for land in JT/YV area. I have reached out to 3 realtors with no response. We would like an RE agent who is familiar with STRs. I went on the SB county website and it says STRs are only permitted in desert/mountain regions (rural living). Can you guys confirm this? Any help with this is appreciated. We would like to buy the land and build in the next 2 years for a vacation home and STR.
- 5yArun ChandraPro MemberInvestor · Oceanside, CA · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 12 votes
@Kristi Allain ! Hi Kristi, do you help people buy real estate in Yucca Valley or Joshua Tree? I’m interested in purchasing some land and building a container home.
- Member since 2021 · 3 posts · 0 votes5y
@Annie Johnson have you found a RE agent yet? If so, please shoot me a DM, I'd be interested to get a contact in the area.
Super helpful information @Jason Kudo . Sounds like a straightforward and fair process to get a STR setup correctly.
Does anyone have any insight into the STR market in Yucca Valley vs Joshua Tree? Not sure which would be better in the long term. I read someone else's post from 2yr ago on a different thread about YV vs JT. Sounds like YV is a little more commercially developed and JT is more of a hipster local mom n pop community. They made it sound like JT is a bit more desirable due to the proximity to the park.
- Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 30 posts · 15 votes5y
@Arun Chandra hey Arun! I’m working on a similar project on a piece of land I own and have a great rec for a land broker in the area. I’ll send you a message.
- Member since 2021 · 3 posts · 1 vote5y
This might be slightly off topic but assuming the home is all to code how hard is it to get the STR permit. Can a neighbor appeal you if they just do not want you next to them?
- Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4 posts · 1 vote5y
Hi all,
Newbie investor here who's in escrow on a house (a SFR built in 2003-- not a cabin) in Joshua Tree right now... and trying to quickly figure out if this is the right move or if I should walk away. I've done some research on the SB county requirements for obtaining a STR permit, but haven't yet been able to answer some specific ones. Wondering if any other BiggerPocketeers might have some insight/experience.
(1) The property is a 2 bedroom 2 bath, and I'm wanting to add a 3rd bedroom. What are the requirements to be able to do this? Is there a minimum square footage required for each room and/or a total minimum square footage for a 3 bedroom house? the house is 1280 sq ft.
(2) How tall can I build a fence on the sides and front of the property line? I was told 6 ft tall. That seems correct for the sides just from some of the houses I've seen, but seems maybe too tall for the front of property line. The lot is small for JT-- only 7,200 sq ft. Almost all of the useable outdoor space is between the front of the house and the street, so I want (actually need) to create privacy in the front yard from the street. It's in North Downtown-- just north the highway.
(3) I think I know the answer here, but would the STR permit inspector even check that I'm in compliance for #1 and/or #2 above?
(4) Any other construction permit or STR permit land mines that I should look out for (ones that are easy to overlook on the county's website)? Any other good resources for this research?Thanks so much. Really love this place.
-Chris
- Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4 posts · 1 vote5y
@Taryn F. Thanks so much for the detailed response! That doc you sent the link for was the land use bible for SBC-- not only for fence regulations, but the whole nine. I also ended up speaking with the City Planner today about the fence restrictions and confirmed they are as they're spelled out in that doc... Which is a bummer. Max height for fence or hedge within the street facing setback is 4 ft tall. The setback is the first 25 feet from the property line to the house. Pretty sure the house itself is set back only ~30ft from the property line. I'm but going to build a 6ft high fence just 5 feet from my front door. I'm going by the house tomorrow for one last look. There's no backyard. There's some space to the side of the house-- which essentially the driveway. If it doesnt look like that would be enough space for an outdoor table, jacuzzi, and tub.. then I might pull out of this deal.
I would hate to walk away over something like fencing, but I have it in my head that an outdoor experience is really important in JT/Yucca STR's. And the outdoor space needs to feel either remote or private-- desert-like isolation vibes. This would not be remote or private. It would be just a 10 minute walk from the new brewery and saloon and all the shops though. I'm rambling now.... Decisions decisions.
- 5yJo-Ann LapinPro MemberLoan Officer · Tustin, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 713 votes
Thank you for the share Taryn . I am currently trying to help and investor with an air bnb in Joshua tree and we could not quite figure all the utility projections quite out.
- Member since 2021 · 1 post · 0 votes5y
@Christopher Le Any update with your deal in JT?
I've looking in the YV myself and the deals are flying off the shelf. I also notice some deals are contingent and ends up back on the market quickly. I wonder if it had to do with troubles with permitting STR either in SB county or the YV area. Can anyone can chime in regarding getting STR permit approved? I read through other threads and is it as simple as getting approval and notifying the neighbors within 300ft radius, and if they don't agree with the STR permit, that's pretty much the end of it? Anybody with experience on that?
- Rental Property Investor · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2020 · 59 posts · 33 votes5y
Originally posted by @Derek Wong:
@Christopher Le Any update with your deal in JT?
I've looking in the YV myself and the deals are flying off the shelf. I also notice some deals are contingent and ends up back on the market quickly. I wonder if it had to do with troubles with permitting STR either in SB county or the YV area. Can anyone can chime in regarding getting STR permit approved? I read through other threads and is it as simple as getting approval and notifying the neighbors within 300ft radius, and if they don't agree with the STR permit, that's pretty much the end of it? Anybody with experience on that?
Did you happen to find out about the neighbor's approval for an STR permit?
- Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4 posts · 1 vote5y
@Derek Wong and @Chris Carr,
I decided to move forward with the house in JT-- closed escrow and got the keys on 3/4. It wasn't an easy decision because of the hurdles that I knew would be in my way of getting the STR permit. The max fence height concern has turned out to be the least of my worries-- It's still 4 ft tall max if facing the street and less than 25ft setback, but that's a laughable non-issue now compared to my main hurdle that I discovered after my last post: I've got an unpermitted addition on the house...
It's a 2 bed / 2 bath, but the master bed/bath (the whole back half of the house) was added on to an original 1 bed/1 bath structure. The sellers didn't reveal this up front. They claimed they didn't know, because it's been assessed as a 2/2 for several years and taxes have been paid on it like that accordingly-- public records show that. Probably seems stupid that I would choose to move forward with this mess, but I had been beat up so bad with rejected offers and watching the list prices for SFR's continue to climb (what seemed to be ~10% in just 6 weeks) that I figured if I had jumped back into the hunt I could end up looking for a different SFR for as long as it takes me to bring this one up to code-- I'd probably pay more for that house due to appreciation than I'd have to pay to re-open any permits or I may be priced out (of the ones with enough meat on the bone for me) altogether.
The original structure was built in 2003 (previous owners-- not the sellers to me). That owner pulled a permit for the addition in 2004, and got some of the initial inspections checked off (slab, ground plumbing), but then completed the build without the final inspections. Because the final inspections were never performed, the permit expired in 2007-- and that expired permit sits on the property records with SB County. In other words, they know about it. If it wasn't on record, meaning if the owner just built it without ever pulling the permits, then I'd probably just file for the STR permit now and see if they even notice (again the public record shows it's a 2/2). The work looks solid; the addition is seamless enough that the home inspector didn't even notice. Fully acknowledged that I'm not an architect/contractor with the credibility to make that judgement, but I consulted in person with several architects and contractors who all agreed that the addition looks at surface level well-built. A neighbor also told me that the previous owner who built it was a licensed GC (for whatever that's worth).All that said, I'm hopeful we'll be able to get this cleared up. The County originally told me that I would have to resubmit for a brand new permit (meaning new plans and all this), but I was lucky enough to find a local architect with experience in this very same situation in JT. He's super knowledgeable about navigating the recent SB county permit requirements, and I'm working with him to try to the county to re-instate the permit and just come out to continue the field inspection from where it left off. If they say no and require the full permit... then I'm looking at an uphill battle that by all estimations could take me 4 months. And that's just to get the permit for the addition-- then I need to get the STR permit. Will probably file for both these permits simultaneously... just waiting to see how things shake out with the county. As folks have said they are VERY SLOW. More to come.
- Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4 posts · 1 vote5y
Forgot to mention, with regard to notifying neighbors about your STR for the permit-- I didn't see anything in the SB County STR Permit guidelines that require this. Maybe I'm wrong. Not too worried if so, as most of my direct neighbors are actually STR's themselves.
From some preliminary research (before I closed on the JT property), I think that neighbor-notification requirement might apply only to the town of Yucca Valley. They have a different set of rules than SB County-- and there are other posts here on BP that go into that. I've read that the process of getting the STR permit in YV is more orderly and faster (because it's the city is managing applications), but the rules are more strict (because there are more long term residents in the city). The process for SB County seems to have less rules (so some people claim generally less strict), but it's much slower than YV (because the division managing applications is doing so for the entire county-- one of the largest in the nation). There are probably people with more first hand experience that can vet out that claim.
*Note that SB County jurisdiction applies to Joshua Tree and Landers and some other high desert communities that are not cities in of themselves. This applies to some areas of what people commonly refer to as "Yucca Valley"-- like north of Buena Vista Dr. In other words, make sure you know whether you're really in the town of Yucca Valley (which falls under YV STR permit rules) or you're in an area of greater Yucca Valley that is actually under SB County STR permit rules.
- 5yJeff HubertPro MemberRealtor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2013 · 104 posts · 30 votes
@Christopher Le Congrats on your purchase. Sounds exciting. I'm building there just waiting on plan approvals.. I didn't read anything about getting the neighbor's approval on the Short Term Rental site. I'll review it again. I know fees, lol.
Good Luck with everything. One day at a time!
- Member since 2020 · 5 posts · 1 vote5y
This is an extremely helpful thread. Thanks for all of the great information. I'm curious if anyone has a property manager in the area. Christopher, are you willing to share the name of your contractor? I'm also curious about what to expect with having a septic tank.
With Gratitude.
Dwana
- Member since 2021 · 1 post · 0 votes5y
Hi we are currently in escrow for our very first property in Joshua Tree, our 3rd investment property. We started looking since February of this year and lost out on a few homes that had massive bidding wars. So we ended up with a home that is a slight fixer but tons of potential! I have a question regarding getting a contractor and handyman in the area. It seems hard to get anyone without prior commitments, we understand it's a crazy market right now for builders! By any chance anyone has tried getting someone from the nearby cities and willing to travel? This seems to be a common issue for Mountain and desert areas. One of our STR is in Big Bear Lake and we had to bring our own crew all the way from LA. In doesn't help that it's gonna be summer soon and none of our regular crew wants to drive and work in the desert! Please help.
- Member since 2021 · 7 posts · 1 vote5y
@Vincent Gambin- Any luck finding a contractor/handyman in the area? I am just starting my deep dive into the area (I know I'm about 5 years too late). Are you using a property manager or managing it yourself. Thanks so much
-Emma
- Member since 2021 · 1 post · 0 votes5y
Jason, thanks for so much info on this! I'm also trying to see if there's a way to rent to multiple parties simultaneously on a single lot that is 2+ acres. Is there any issue with having separate groups stay under one permit (ie: one in main house, one in ADU)? Looking through the STR Ordinance i see the restrictions on number of people per permit, but not on number of groups.
- 5yRyan MoyerBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Orlando Kissimmee Davenport Salt Lake City, Park City · Member since 2019 · 993 posts · 1k+ votes
Someone has to explain this market to me. Everyone raves about how awesome it's been for the last year+, but when I look at listings on AirBnB/VRBO their calendars are all bare even in what I think is supposed to be high season there.
Cosmic Vacations4.9172 Reviews - Real Estate Agent · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2017 · 276 posts · 255 votes5y
Originally posted by @David Berger:
Jason, thanks for so much info on this! I'm also trying to see if there's a way to rent to multiple parties simultaneously on a single lot that is 2+ acres. Is there any issue with having separate groups stay under one permit (ie: one in main house, one in ADU)? Looking through the STR Ordinance i see the restrictions on number of people per permit, but not on number of groups.
There can be a maximum of 2 permits per parcel. Each structure must have it's own permit so if you were looking to rent out both a main house and an ADU to short-term renters, each structure must have its own permit. If you're looking to rent out a main house and an ADU on the same parcel, the parcel needs to be over 2 acres or else in order to rent out the ADU, the owner must be occupying the main house.
- Real Estate Agent · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2017 · 276 posts · 255 votes5y
Originally posted by @Ryan Moyer:
Someone has to explain this market to me. Everyone raves about how awesome it's been for the last year+, but when I look at listings on AirBnB/VRBO their calendars are all bare even in what I think is supposed to be high season there.
Mind clarifying what you think is supposed to be high season there?
- 5yRyan MoyerBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Orlando Kissimmee Davenport Salt Lake City, Park City · Member since 2019 · 993 posts · 1k+ votes
Originally posted by @Jason Kudo:
Originally posted by @Ryan Moyer:
Someone has to explain this market to me. Everyone raves about how awesome it's been for the last year+, but when I look at listings on AirBnB/VRBO their calendars are all bare even in what I think is supposed to be high season there.
Mind clarifying what you think is supposed to be high season there?
Hi Jason, I've heard winter for Joshua Tree. Though that isn't with a ton of research admittedly, just what a few of the investors had mentioned in one of the Joshua Tree threads here, so certainly possible I am wrong about that.
Cosmic Vacations4.9172 Reviews
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