Frustrated with Bigger Pocket Posts

Katie Douglas · 2015-08-02T10:51:31-07:00

Hello, I'm a newbie and this is my first post on Bigger Pockets although I have lurked here for several years. While I have been able to find invaluable information on this site, I find many of the posts (especially in the newsletters) to be frustrating because they sound a bit like internet marketing/motivational speak with little realistic or actionable advice although they are supposedly targeted towards young professionals. They tend to underestimate costs/skills needed/and timelines that many people have.For example, my husband and I are a young professional couple in our mid-twenties. Many of the articles directed at our age group fail to address the following:- many young people out of college do not have high incomes (median net compensation for individuals in 2013 is about $28k per year) http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html; http://time.com/money/3829776/heres-what-the-avera...- record high student loan debt (average amount of debt for individuals is $26,500 for 2011 graduates) http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/education/report...- most people are married and/or have children by age 30 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/22/marriage-... http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db19.htm; http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/births.htm; http://www.infoplease.com/spot/momcensus1.html)- The median American household owes $3,300 of consumer debt (http://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-card-data/av...) - if you do have a professional job you will probably have to purchase a professional wardrobe (in our case we needed new clothes that were appropriate for cold winters)- you will probably have to move to where jobs/graduate programs are (moving costs plus potential increase in the COL; see note on buying winter wardrobe)- increasing rents (http://www.deptofnumbers.com/rent/us/) -record high prices for cars (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/09/0...) average price is $31k for new car and slightly used cars are only a few thousand dollars less); most households in the US need at least one car and if you were lucky enough to have one in high school it is probably starting to get old and have expensive maintenance issues by the time you are a young professional.-record number of people in graduate school (http://www.census.gov/hhes/socdemo/education/data/...) poverty level pay and long hours that discourage people from working a second job during this time- housing is expensive (down payment plus transaction costs- why do so many posts fail to go into detail about these? My husband and I wanted to purchase the condo we are renting- at a modest price- but the transaction costs doubled the cost of purchasing and we would have only saved $180 per month over the cost of renting. We decided it was better to pay down debt and move to a better location in a couple of years.)- house hacking; there are not likely very many multi-family units in many towns and if there are they are probably expensive and in undesirable/dangerous parts of townI am not trying to discredit the usefulness of this site or of investing in real estate. But many of the posts I have read come down to: either the OP majored in a related field in college and worked with other professionals shortly thereafter, had a much higher than average income starting out of college, or had their parents pay for college/weddings/ first mortgages, or the OP is not really young and is already a professional who is looking back at what they wish they did when they were younger (when they had no networks or money). I think more accurate advice for 20 somethings would be:- work on increasing your knowledge and income (try to find and fill your skill deficits so that you can be useful to others in the industry and make money; here is something that might be useful: http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/negotiation...)- work on your people and organizational skills- get your personal finances in shape- set a realistic time frame for investing (it might take several years to be ready)- work on getting your SO on board- build a network of colleagues that you can call on later- don't buy stupid motivational business books to learn, buy books that focus on specific skills and that have case studiesOR- have access to specialized knowledge. a large amount of capital, and a professional network, already- have access to people with those things Many people go through seismic changes in their lives during their twenties that are not accounted for in these posts. The over simplistic messages I think overshadow the usefulness of the posts. Young professionals don

Stephanie Garcia

Sacramento, CA · Member since 2014 · 73 posts · 16 votes

11y

Here's my story. I purchased my first home at 23 yrs old in 2012. I was at my job for 7 years. Did make much money. Credit score wasn't the greatest. I was a full time student as well . Only 11$ an hour. I only contributed to my 401k plan for two years because they had some rule about needing to be 21 to contribute. So i do know there are sometimes challenges for young people. I also had a 3 year old daughter at the time and was going threw a break up but i was determined to buy a home. I purchased my home for 89k about 4k down which i did not have. I had to sell my tv and take out a loan. My mindset at the time was paying 100$ less for rent. Having the pride of knowing I own my home. And thinking in the future I could rent it out. i never thought this home was going to be my final residence just an opportunity to learn.

I think that is whats wrong with some young people. They don't think about their future. They think about going Threw the drive threw every day for convenience. i believe to be successful you just have to be determined and make a plan and sacrifice some luxuries we have. It's hard but must be Done. My current situation is finishing School. Take equity out my home to get my next property.

Good luck katie i hope you work towards your goals and get past your frustrations.

3 Reply

Roy N.Pro Member

Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes

11y

Originally posted by @Katie Douglas:

...Also, most people are married by 30 and smarter more educated people are more likely to be the ones to be married- and they are richer for it.

Interesting observation and one that is surprisingly divergent between our two countries. Here, greater education correlates with later marriage (if there is even marriage, about half do not both with marriage these days) and waiting longer to start a family.

1 Reply

Joe Moore

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2010 · 804 posts · 230 votes

11y

Some things that can hold you back are: (1). What do you do with your after work hours? Do you use them to make more income? (2) How do you spend your money? Do you have a budget? Are you trying to keep up with the Joneses or are you the Joneses? (3) Who do you spend your time with? Are you spending too much time with other frustrated people? Survey says (lol) your net worth will be the average net worth of the 5 the people you spend the most time with. (4) Where is your head? Attitude determines altitude. Do you give up easily? Are you looking for more ways to win or lose? Are you in your own team to win or are ready to throw in the towel when the going get tough? Sometimes a timeout is required to get yourself back in fighting shape in order to go forward, just like in sports. Stress can get to best in us. So take a break but don't quit. If you are feeling entitled and that everything should just fall in place because you are you or that the effort you put forth should be enough to reach your goal, then you reevaluate how far that attitude will get you/

Also there is good and bad debt. School loan is good debt but, even with that you have to pick a field in demand that potential to pay you the income you want and give you some kind of interest in the work. Transportation can be good or bad debt. If you buying a new car because you just want to shine in it, you looking at bad debt. If you buy a reliable car that get you to work so you earn a living, it good debt. Good debt is made for the basic for living and/or debt taken on that will make more money come in after all the expenditures connected to it are satisfied or buying something that increase in value that have a market that you can access.

Life will always have winners and losers. Those who see themselves as losers are generally right. Those who see themselves as winners are right. If you see yourself and your life as a loser, that is your right. Also, if you see yourself as a winner that your right. So in the end, the chose is yours.

One last thing. If you don't believe in yourself, you lost the battle before you started. Sour grapes want make anyone's life one bit better or sweeter. When life give you lemon make lemonade.

1 Reply

Katie Douglas

OP

Morris, IL · Member since 2014 · 36 posts · 9 votes

11y

@M Marie Maxwell

I really like this post. We have two cars that are paid off. We were lucky in that our parents were able to purchase cars for us in high school and we are both still driving those same cars. The problem is, is that our parents weren't stupid and didn't buy us brand new cars to begin with. However, that means that they are starting to get old and have issues - my husband's car more than mine. Luckily they are still cheaper than a new car, but if we keep having issues a (new to us) car purchase is on the horizon. Thankfully, my husband has access to a car through work (he is an engineer and works at a construction site- he has a state vehicle) so we could get rid of one of the cars.

Our biggest expenses are debt repayment and rent. Rent is a third of our take home pay and a mortgage on this place would only be about $180 a month cheaper. I know it would help to reduce it, but we plan on moving in a couple of years. Our original plan was to buy it now and keep it as a rental property later but we worried it would mess up our debt to income ratio if we moved later. Also, we decided instead of paying for the down payment and transaction costs, that it would make more sense to pay off debt first. We thought it would put us in a better position to invest later. This condo is the equivalent to the cheaper houses around the area, but the property taxes on the houses are pretty high.

One major improvement would be if I worked full time. Right now I am an adjunct faculty instructor (I recently left a fully paid PhD program with my MA after my adviser left). I would either need to go back to school or otherwise acquire additional skills, and we would probably need to move again in order for me to find a full time position. We live in a very rural area (We spend little on entertainment because of this. For us the expenses are Hulu/Netflix/Amazon Prime streaming and occasional trips to the city/suburbs on the weekends- we live in the cornfields). But again here it comes down to personal finances - do we take on debt to increase our income- or do we continue to pay down debt and focus aggressively on investing in the future at a time when we are likely to have kids later? I would like to have several properties before we have children. This is a personal finance decision and would require some strategic decisions. My husband has a great career trajectory here and it helps for me to stay home when he works more than 10 hours a day and most Saturdays. I take care of all chores/cooking/errands/ and research for increasing our income.

I also follow mywifequitherjob.com and recently found smartpassiveincome.com and A Better Lemonadestand. Some of the debt we have accrued has been in the pursuit of activities that have the potential to generate additional income. But again- do you spend a little money to generate an income/build skills or should you just focus on overall debt reduction? Either way we have decided not to spend money on real estate at this time.

But my overall point is that it would be more interesting to hear from people and about how they put themselves in a position to where they could start investing.

0 Reply

Katie Douglas

OP

Morris, IL · Member since 2014 · 36 posts · 9 votes

11y

Also, our grocery expenses are below what the USDA lists for a thrifty couple- I cook every meal and we eat a lot of fruits and vegetables.

Our car expenses are just gas, insurance, and regular maintenance; plus, some recent and expensive repairs. But we do not have a monthly car note.

Like I said, our expenses are mostly rent and debt reduction.

0 Reply

Elliot Smith

Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2014 · 270 posts · 111 votes

11y

I believe that the system sets up people our age to fail. The system says go to college (with student loans) get a credit card so you can still have fun, when you get out of school you need to buy a new car with your first job (more debt) then maybe buy a house (more debt), go on fun trips (with your credit card). Everything they tell you is that you "deserve this!" Frankly unless you can pay cash for a car, trips, fun you don't deserve any of it. The only debt that is remotely ok is house debt IMO

Now our story. My wife bought her first car when she was 16 for $500 cash that she earned on a paper route. She then bought a $5000 car cash when she was 18. She then bought her first house when she was 19. We got married at 23 and paid for our wedding cash. At 24 when she wanted a nice car we paid cash and waited for the right one. We take trips where we pay all cash. And the best part of it all is we didn't go to college and we make over $100k. We own 3 houses and have no debt beside the houses. Now we have saved up 1.5 years of her income so that she can go full time into real estate. But we had a plan and didn't jump until we could. Also she left her parents house when she was 15 because they were abusive alcoholics.

The formula is easy. Don't go in debt, work your a** off, live on 50% of your income (or less) and know that if you want to be successful in this world you have to go out and TAKE IT because no one will give you anything. Listen to Dave Ramsey and he will get yout mind right on debt.

2 Reply

David Hays

Investor · Malaga, Andalucía · Member since 2014 · 150 posts · 73 votes

11y

@Katie Douglas

While I would agree with the latter recommendations in your initial post - these are good recommendations for anybody getting started, not just young professionals - I have to strongly disagree with your earlier assertions. As others have said, you have not listed off anything particularly drastic - only real life, or a rather 'entitled' sense of it (did you seriously complain about the expense of a "professional wardrobe"???) - and you can either let them become excuses or obstacles.

For reference: I am 26 (27 in October), married for one year (no kids), no degree but some college and no college debt. I have previously cleared a total of $7500 in consumer debt due to bad decisions at a younger age, and have since moved on. My W2 career to-date has varied between stints in accounting and hotel management (corporate and site) - my highest salary at any point was $34k. Since late 2012 I have not worked a W2 job and have been strictly self-employed, and have since built a property management company specialized in vacation rentals. Income from that is directed towards REI.

I did not click through all the links you provided, so perhaps the following input may be mistaken based upon the summaries you presented:

Point by point:

I see no reason why $28k a year cannot allow for REI, let alone the $56k that would then be a result of your later assertions that "most people are married by 30". Also, does this statistic take into account the college degree that you also mentioned?
Student loan debt is optional; if you have it, don't complain about it, just factor it into your financial plan and move forward.
What's wrong with being married? Two incomes makes things much, much easier in my experience. I can understand the added expense of children, but I don't really understand the validity of your point on marriage.
Consumer debt is optional; don't accrue it just to finance an entitled lifestyle, and if you have it, then don't complain about it, just factor it into your financial plan and move forward.
Professional wardrobe...again, seriously? How is this remotely a justifiable barrier to REI? Whatever your peers tell you, you don't have to shop at Express or Nordstrom to look professional, regardless of whether you need to accommodate cold weather.
Relocation costs - possible, sure, but not a recurring expense so eventually you just move forward.
Increasing rents are a good thing when it comes to REI. If you can't maintain your rent and save, get a cheaper place.
When it comes to cars, I don't believe you'll find much sympathy here in regards to new cars - there is a very extensive thread here on BP on the subject, and the overwhelming majority have paid cash for inexpensive, functional vehicles (Our car, recently purchased, is a 2005 Kia Sportage with 60k miles, paid $5,600 cash).
Graduate school is optional - either it's going to help you in your career and be worth it, or...not.
REI can be expensive, absolutely..but it doesn't have to be. Without knowing anything else about the deal with your condo (and trusting your evaluation that it didn't work for your goals), $180 a month saved and paying into an asset rather than rent still sounds like an upside to me.
Your point on house-hacking is, for lack of a better word, just ignorant. A bit too much on the "likely this" and "probably that". The fact is, maybe there's not 4plexes in your immediate area; ok, but perhaps there's a duplex, and there's absolutely no reason these buildings would have to be in undesirable areas. I know for a fact that, in my hometown of Sacramento, CA, the most desirable rental is in a multi-family converted Victorian or similar in downtown/'Midtown'.

Like I said, it's not that I think the suggestions you made later on in your initial post are wrong, but I think you have some misplaced frustrations - BiggerPockets is a forum that exists to assist and educate real estate investors, not to help people sort out their personal finances. There's other places for that (Dave Ramsey comes to mind), and once you're on that good path (I recognize your other posts where you said you were doing this), then is the time to start realistically exploring REI.

2 Reply

Katie Douglas

OP

Morris, IL · Member since 2014 · 36 posts · 9 votes

11y

@Stephanie Garcia

Thank you for your post- it is very interesting. It sounds like we have some similarities- many of the houses around here are about $100k or are less but old and in need of significant repairs/updating. Closing on our condo would have cost more than $7k - which was doable for us, but we decided to apply that to debt reduction instead and give ourselves the option to move and purchase another house in a different location in the future. (One of our "pain points" would be learning about ways to deal with the debt to income ration requirement on mortgage applications). Also, there seem to be more hoops to jump through with mortgage companies if the mortgage amount is less than $100k (another area where we need more education).

Thank you for your encouragement! Best of luck to you and your family!

1 Reply

Katie Douglas

OP

Morris, IL · Member since 2014 · 36 posts · 9 votes

11y

@Roy N.

In the US we have the same trends. However, it is happening more among people who don't have a college education. Overall people are getting married less and having fewer children. But most people still do and those who do are more likely to have a college degree.

0 Reply

Matthew Paul

Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes

11y

Try buying a small house for yourself in a decent area , nothing expensive , make it clean , neat and functional . After you are situated and better off financially , buy another house for yourself , fix it up then move in , rent the first house and keep the same thing going on and on . I did this with 15 year notes , house 1 ,is paid for , house 2 the same , house 3 will be in 1 year ,( I lived in the first 3 ) house 4 and 5 I just bought out right because they were in rough shape and getting a loan would take too long . House 6 I live in and the rents from all the above will pay that house off in 5 years.

I started mowing lawns , at 18 , got into contracting at 23 , College wasnt an option , I couldnt take a pay cut . Worked 7 days a week , and 10 to 12 hours a day lots of times . Now at 50 I still will if the money is right .

1 Reply

Katie Douglas

OP

Morris, IL · Member since 2014 · 36 posts · 9 votes

11y

@David Hays

The average wages would be enough if people didn't have other expenditures.

Student loan debt is optional and you should move past it, but if you have other financial goals like investing in real estate you have to make some strategic decisions and the posts I have read on this site either ignore those decisions, come from OPs who didn't go to college, or had their parents pay for it. This is my point. That some of the advice is overly simplistic because chances are that many people will need to figure out how to move past it to meet their larger financial goals.

My point wasn't about being married it was about the need to pay for weddings and that most people in their 20s will get married at some point. This needs to be a part of their financial plan and should be included in BP posts. Or, if the OPs had their parents pay for it they should say so.

Consumer debt is optional, but again comes down to personal finance knowledge and decision making. Chances are the average person has some and needs to make strategic decisions and lifestyle choices to get rid of it. I think posts that include this information are more interesting than those that come from people who just had a bunch of money lying around and started investing.

I am serious about the wardrobe. Coming out of college, many young 20 somethings probably haven't spent that much on a wardrobe and some professions require you to dress a certain way. Buying clothes that you can wear in all 4 seasons (we have really cold winters) in a professional environment can set someone back when they are first starting out. Those professional environments are part of what comes with some high paying jobs. It is a basic level expectation. This is not something you have to buy a lot of once you have it, but if you are starting from scratch and you are expected to have it once you start a position- it can set you back.

Relocation costs- still something that can put people back before they even start their new professional jobs.

Increasing rents are an issue if you are renting yourself and are saving to invest in real estate/purchase your own residence to save on costs.

I think posters should simply note that the value of house hacking might have significant geographic variations.

I agree with you about personal finances- however, if a post is targeted towards 20 somethings- maybe they should include this information to give context to how people were able to start so early.

0 Reply

Account Closed

Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 74 posts · 22 votes

11y

Whew, an emotional post, certainly.

I agree, and disagree, TBH.

I agree that expectations can be unrealistic, that anyone who says it's easy is lucky or much smarter than me, and that you're absolutely correct about not buying into the hype being very important.

This said, I do have some feedback based on my own experience (which I guess like some others is a bit of an "outlier") - take it as you will, it's not meant to demean or say you're wrong / have done something poorly; it's just to give another perspective, and maybe some ideas.

(For reference I'm in my early 30's now, started investing in RE in my mid-20's).

Moving for work (whether to get a job or get more salary) is expensive (yup, it is!)

It's an investment in you and your future. Sure, it has a cost (I've been more fortunate than some in that my employer paid for me to move), but you have to evaluate it in the context of future income/earnings, and whether it's worth it for you (and your family) or not.

For some folks they simply don't want to change where they live - and that's OK; but you can't have your cake and eat it too (i.e you can't stay in a high unemployment area but still expect to make loads of money in salary or whatever else; if you choose to stay because of lifestyle or other reasons, that's totally fine - but there's generally a choice to move to somewhere different with better employment opportunities).

If you invest (for sake of argument) 20K in moving and you gain 10K a year after tax in extra earnings - that's a 2 year ROI, after which, you're making extra money that will continue to increase with raises and so on - WIN!

I see this with folks in my hometown of Vancouver, BC Canada all the time:

- They want to live in a very expensive city.

- This city has some well paying jobs, but no where near as many as say, Seattle, San Francisco, Austin, and so on (not to mention avg income levels are lower even for the same job in Vancouver)

So these folks have to make a choice: do they want to stay in Vancouver (with all it's extraordinary lifestyle benefits), or, pick up and move elsewhere; I have nothing but respect for folks on both sides of that fence, but again - can't have your cake (live in Vancouver) and eat it too (complain about not having enough money to buy a home because your job doesn't pay enough there).

Cost of a car

I think some others have hinted at it here as well; 30+K is alot of money for a new car; but is it really necessary?

I recently had an older (10 years or so) Honda Civic sold for about 5K; 10 years old, almost 100K kilometers on it, but easily could've done another 100K with the right mechanic and so on, always dealer serviced etc.

5K (and on-going maintenance etc.) is a great price for a car that's still safe (had all the modern safety functions of ABS, airbags, etc. and even had A/C!).

It's not a pimp ride; you will not be noticed riding around town in it; but it'll save you a bundle compared to buying a depreciating asset (a new car).

Cost of starting out

I like to think that I know pretty well what it's like to start with next to nothing. I found that:

- Nothing is a substitute for hard work; I had to out hustle everyone else around me to get where I am.

- I out worked everyone; first in, last out.

- I spent every spare moment learning so I could get ahead.

Eventually I found my way into better and better career options, and I'm very happy to say I'm light years ahead of where I was 10 years ago.

I compare it to *some* folks that age today and I just don't see that same hustle; it's more entitlement. That's not applicable to all of them - there's certainly tones that work HARD and I love them for it; but there's still some (that contribute to those averages!) that just don't.

House Hacking

I am hard pressed to think of another way that someone could get into REI with so little $$$, and stand to really do well.

3.5% down on 500K = 17.5K; that's all you need to buy into a 4-plex and gain 3 tenants who can pay your mortgage whilst you (hopefully!) live rent free.

Does it work in all areas? Of course not; a 4-plex in San Francisco probably costs 2M+! :) But, for many folks, this is a totally viable option; and gives you access to unprecedented leverage compared to the usual 20-25% down for an investment, IMO!

Anyway enough of my rambling, this is not intended to say you're wrong or anything else (in fact the opposite I quite like a number of your points); it's more just around my personal feedback...happy to take comments on it both good and otherwise :)

2 Reply

Katie Douglas

OP

Morris, IL · Member since 2014 · 36 posts · 9 votes

11y

@Matthew Paul

Thank you for this advice, it sounds like a great plan!

0 Reply

Joe Moore

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2010 · 804 posts · 230 votes

11y

Ok, I will try this again. One way to get thing to move faster is building up your credit line. If you enough credit available on your credit cards, you can use it buy a house outright or have a good down payment. Many cards are offering 0% cash advance for a year or better. These advances can get you thru a door quicker and if this a rental, it works even better. Pay those advance off quickly because it can impact your credit score. After paying the card down drastically or off your score will go back up in 3 to 4 months after cc payment is made. You will increase your income and more likely your net worth. Hooray!

1 Reply

Katie Douglas

OP

Morris, IL · Member since 2014 · 36 posts · 9 votes

11y

@Michele Fischer

Great advice! Thank you!

1 Reply

Bryan C.

Investor · Spokane, WA · Member since 2014 · 733 posts · 155 votes

11y

I agree @Katie Douglas that what you present is fairly accurate, but it comes down to overcoming obstacles (perseverance). How bad do you want it? Are you willing to make sacrifices? Many who succeed do so because of the sacrifices they made to get there. Taking action is critical and one can analyze, learn, study etc for however long they want but they wont get anywhere until they jump in and get their feet wet.

1 Reply

Katie Douglas

OP

Morris, IL · Member since 2014 · 36 posts · 9 votes

11y

@Account Closed

Thank you for your post, I think you make some really great points! You are right, I made this post in a moment of frustration after reading a post on the site.

0 Reply

Sakeena Rashid

New to Real Estate · Cuyahoga Falls, OH · Member since 2015 · 12 posts · 4 votes

11y

@Katie Douglas

I'm new to real estate investing so I can't give you any advice on purchasing your first property. But, there were three things that stood out about your post for me.

1. "New cars are expensive at $31K or slightly lower." I literally know of not one family member that has ever bought a brand new car. Even my cousin who is a lawyer and makes six-figures has an old crap car. I bought my "05 suv from my dad five years ago. The engine gave out last summer. Time to get a new car? Nope. We bought a used engine that a mechanic found for us and I'm still driving that '05, maybe it cost $1500 incld. install. But you said you own your cars outright so this isn't even a problem for you?

2. Clothes are expensive. Nope. My best friend is one of the best dressers I know. I'd always compliment her on her clothes and ask her where she got everything. Most of the time she would say, the thrift store. I started going after that and have never looked back. I've purchased so many items $1 and $2 tops and skirts for $5. My mom works for the sate and has to look professional. Guess where she shops. The thrift store. She has beautiful business blouses and enough slacks and blazers to fill a walk-in closet. She shops smart, and looks great. Also one of the thrift stores I frequented had a half off sale the last Tuesday of every month. Guess where I was the last Tuesday of each month?

3. Mindset. You seem to be looking at things as to what is stacked against you instead of what do you have working in your favor? I would suggest that you watch the documentary, The Secret. I loved it and I think it could help.

Best.

4 Reply

Katie Douglas

OP

Morris, IL · Member since 2014 · 36 posts · 9 votes

11y

@Bryan C. these are excellent points! I think more newbies would benefit from hearing about the sacrifices people make, how much time it actually took them to accomplish their goals, and about strategies they can use to overcome those obstacles. You can be highly motivated but not have the knowledge/skill to deal with your obstacles strategically or it may just take more time than people think to implement their strategies.

0 Reply

Account Closed

Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 74 posts · 22 votes

11y

Originally posted by @Katie Douglas:

@Account Closed

Thank you for your post, I think you make some really great points! You are right, I made this post in a moment of frustration after reading a post on the site.

No worries at all, it's all good, we all feel it (trust me, I've had many days of frustration myself!)

Turning this around a bit then - is there some specific questions, or areas that you're feeling totally bummed out about that you want some input on, or, just questions that you're like "hey, how did you do X"? Happy to ramble if it'll help!

1 Reply

Chanté Owens

Insurance Agent · AZ · Member since 2013 · 306 posts · 161 votes

11y

@Katie Douglas You may want to read Paula's blog Afford Anything. She is a 30 year old, who began her real estate investing about 4 years ago with her boyfriend. Their initial property was a duplex (or triplex, I can't remember). They lived on one side and even rented rooms on their side as well. They didn't have to pay any mortgage payments out of their own pockets, because their tenants portions paid for everything.

As she points out, everything isn't for everyone, but if someone really wants something, they will make the necessary sacrifices to get it. She owns over 5 rental properties; one of which she's been using as an AirBandB experiment (I believe she may be at #6 or more properties by now).

She did not come from money. All her properties were bought and paid for by her and her boyfriend; no wealthy family members or lotteries.

I've learned quite a bit reading her blog posts. She's said (paraphrasing) that when people say they "can't" do something, what they are really saying is, "they don't want to do what it will take to get...XYZ." Which, she says, is fine, as long as they realize they do have choices and sometimes sacrifices will need to be made short term, in order to obtain long term wealth, etc.

1 Reply

Aaron Mazzrillo

Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

11y

Sounds like you have a lot of objections to overcome before you find your own path to success. I wish you luck in conquering these. It is possible. Try listening to some Jim Rohn if you can get your hands on it. He's passed away, but his audio CDs are still floating around out there. He really focuses on the mental aspect of success and I think he will be an invaluable mentor on your journey.

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Rick H.

Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

11y

Like Sixpack Abs and Get Rich Making Money in Your Underwear, people who are attracted to real estate as potential investors are not encouraged to see the ugly seedy side of the business.

I'm referring to dealing with the the garage sale of humanity, the crazy people, evicting raging tenants, death and destruction, lender bureaucracy, state compliance, etc. All the things that are real world but not attractive or marketable aspects.

The proprietors of this site have a business model that benefits from engaging viewers to remain on pages and view advertisers' messages.

When you post your opinion, you are an engaged viewer and, like TV or Radio, a prospective customer for advertisers. When you patronize advertisers' sites and fo business with, BP presumably receives some degree of lead generation credit.

It's much harder to sell dog, cat and rat feces, green pools and toilets that continue to be used long after the water turned off.

Many, many People on BP are either buying into a dream, an escape or a distraction. Real investors know that nothing is free, including an education. Gas, grass or *ss, nobody rides for free.

4 Reply

Katie Douglas

OP

Morris, IL · Member since 2014 · 36 posts · 9 votes

11y

@Account Closed

I guess I wonder about a few things:

1. benefits/tradeoffs to having one income vs dual income; do we take on debt for more education or just focus on debt reduction? Also, we would probably have to move for me to find a full time job since we live in a rural area. There are some benefits to me staying home- I keep the house clean, cook daily, manage our budget, do research on financial matters, and do all chores/run all errands. My husband frequently works over 10 hours a day and most Saturdays. We are in a position to where we will be able to invest without a second income and I don't know if it makes sense for me to go to school now and take out more loans (and move) if we are going to have kids in a few years. And since we plan to invest heavily for income anyway. I don't mind working part time in the mean time. I will be teaching part time in about a month. However, I have applied to small retail jobs and have to either say I was unemployed for 2 years (and leave my recent references off my applications) or tell them I have a MA. I think many retail employers don't like that you have a M.A.

2. How much money should you spend to make money if you are also focusing on debt reduction? I follow a few blogs online about how to start an online business but you do need a little capital. It's risky and you could end up taking on more debt and not making money. I do have a fiverr account and a couple of ebooks that make a little money. Books cost a little bit of money to put together, though. Focusing on debt reduction seems to go farther at this point than little creative side projects.

3. We are doing ok, but we just need to build skills, get more education, and put together savings to invest in the future. We need more specific information about investing either in a rural area if we stay where we are (investing in houses that are less than 100k- seems to cause issues with some lenders; or we need to figure out how to get some financial backers) or in expensive urban areas (we may move to Chicago for my husbands job and the housing prices are expensive there- mostly property taxes; the current rent rates don't seem to leave much left over after expenses). But if we move I can find a professional level job after a little additional training (we would take out debt for this) so we would have more money as a dual income household and we could get rid of both cars if we live downtown, it would actually make up for the increase in the cost of our own residence if we rent. This is probably where we would look at house hacking but many properties are $500k + so we would have to wait longer to save up a larger down payment.

I think we are on the right track, it is just going to take a little longer than I would like. It just seems like other posts on the site aimed at young people are a bit glib about obstacles.

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Katie Douglas

OP

Morris, IL · Member since 2014 · 36 posts · 9 votes

11y

@Chanté Owens

Thank you for this resource! It sounds very helpful and I will definitely bookmark it!

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