Real Estate Syndications/Funds and Tax Implications

Real Estate Syndications/Funds and Tax Implications

Investor · Passiveadvantage.com · Member since 2019 · 164 posts · 91 votes

Hello All,

I am looking to dabble in the Real Estate arena and mainly looking at syndication deals as well as Funds that have tax benefits. My goal is primarily to diversify from the market more than a public REIT, but also to help with some sheltered income from a tax standpoint as someone who has all W2. As someone who currently has all W2 income 500k+ I am trying to figure out syndications/Funds that are quality, but also wont completely turn my taxes int a nightmare. Believe it or not I still do my own taxes. I was looking at Broadstone, but their 200k min kinda steep, them looked at MLG Fund IV but it appears that with the regular fund you would get like 10+ K1 which would make taxes a pain and their 1099 MLG Fund i think you then lose Depreciation which would be one of the main deductions I get, (Since I dont think I can use pass through deduction at least as I understand it since my income is already over 500k). Just trying to see if anyone has experience/recommendations on high quality syndicators/funds that have favorable tax options in my circumstance?

Thanks in advance

Duke

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Rental Property Investor · Glen Rock, NJ · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y

@Duke Giordano

There're tons of posts on BP asking for quality syndicators. If you just reverse engineer and search, you'll get busy for weeks reading through it. It will also give you an opportunity to decide who to reach out to based on the responses posted. 

In terms of your tax related questions, syndications is a way to generate passive losses that can be netted against passive income. Investing in a REIT offers ordinary income that is treated at your W-2 rate, and hence not the best strategy (or at least not the only one to rely on) for someone in a higher tax bracket. This is a high level view only. To get a full picture you'd need to consult with a CPA. Note, I'm not an accountant (anymore) and not an attorney, so this is only an opinion and not an advice.

Here're an article that will help you come up with the questions to ask the deal sponsor:



https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/10850/76728-questions-to-ask-a-syndicator

Here's also a sample of a post that you should look for as I mentioned above: 

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/32/topics/720094-questions-about-syndicators

My best!

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  • Rental Property Investor · Glen Rock, NJ · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Duke Giordano

    There're tons of posts on BP asking for quality syndicators. If you just reverse engineer and search, you'll get busy for weeks reading through it. It will also give you an opportunity to decide who to reach out to based on the responses posted. 

    In terms of your tax related questions, syndications is a way to generate passive losses that can be netted against passive income. Investing in a REIT offers ordinary income that is treated at your W-2 rate, and hence not the best strategy (or at least not the only one to rely on) for someone in a higher tax bracket. This is a high level view only. To get a full picture you'd need to consult with a CPA. Note, I'm not an accountant (anymore) and not an attorney, so this is only an opinion and not an advice.

    Here're an article that will help you come up with the questions to ask the deal sponsor:



    https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/10850/76728-questions-to-ask-a-syndicator

    Here's also a sample of a post that you should look for as I mentioned above: 

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/32/topics/720094-questions-about-syndicators

    My best!

  • Rental Property Investor · DFW TX · Member since 2018 · 179 posts · 260 votes
    7y

    My perspective is MF.

    @Alina Trigub - please realize that searching on Biggerpockets for a non-PRO member is not all that easy.  I know, pony up and pay the fee...  color me cheap.

    @Duke Giordano - I'm not a CPA, but I think you will find it sort of works this way.  BTW, as you mention REITs, I assume you are attempting to be a passive investor (Limited Partner), so I am going MF/Comm route, not SF, and that you are not a RE Professional.  

    Note that good tax planning is delaying tax or paying a lower rate or both. 

    Say you put in $100K and they return C-on-C of 10% and a total return of 100% on a 5 year hold. [Making the numbers easy, this is a bit optimistic and they never go perfectly!]  The distributions (supposedly $10K/year) will usually come back as return of capital.  You will get a K-1 each year that will show your "Capital Account" (think basis).  The K-1s likely will have huge depreciation the first year and lower depreciation the following 4 years. The K-1s will show some gains or losses each year that apply to your 1040. On the last year, when it sells, you get a big check for $150K (your $100, plus the rest of the return).  You will get to use some of the depreciation, but you will get to pay Cap Gain on the increase, most of the $100K.  (Delayed until the end of the deal and paying Cap Gain rate on passive income!)  

    If you had been a RE Pro, you would have used the depreciation each year to make your W-2 income go away, but would pay Cap Gain on more when it sold.  (Lower Tax Rate, that is moving earned income to Cap Gain rate and delayed!)  When you are not a RE Pro, you are limited to (I think) $3K against earned income.  

    Say you buy into another deal the year the above deal sold; the depreciation on the bought deal will hide some gain on the sold deal.  If accelerated (bonus) depreciation (cost segregation) is still available, it will be a large amount removed from the prior gain.  

    You may wish to form a pass through LLC so that the gains and losses are summed before passing to you. I'm not sure this makes a hill of beans, as it is pass-through, but my CPA seems to think it is better. Once you start getting multiple K-1s, you might let a pro do your taxes...

    Regards,

    Charles LeMaire 

  • London · Member since 2019 · 722 posts · 386 votes
    7y

    Duke,

    I would pay a CPA and a tax attorney to take an honest look at your present tax structure. Unless you are super sharp, there are likely some things you can do which will reduce the tax burden before you start any real estate investing. And you may find that you RE focus needs to be very specific if you want to achieve the tax benefits you appear to be looking for.

    All of that said, be very careful when investing for tax benefits. The stuff that commonly gets pitched as being really good for someone with a high ordinary income tends to perform poorly. Too many compromises to package tax benefits compromises the underlying asset.

  • Rental Property Investor · Glen Rock, NJ · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y
    Charles,
    Thanks for the note. I didn't realize that Search doesn't work too well for non-paid members since I have been a PRO member for a while now. 

    Originally posted by @Charles LeMaire:

    My perspective is MF.

    @Alina Trigub - please realize that searching on Biggerpockets for a non-PRO member is not all that easy.  I know, pony up and pay the fee...  color me cheap.

    @Duke Giordano - I'm not a CPA, but I think you will find it sort of works this way.  BTW, as you mention REITs, I assume you are attempting to be a passive investor (Limited Partner), so I am going MF/Comm route, not SF, and that you are not a RE Professional.  

    Note that good tax planning is delaying tax or paying a lower rate or both. 

    Say you put in $100K and they return C-on-C of 10% and a total return of 100% on a 5 year hold. [Making the numbers easy, this is a bit optimistic and they never go perfectly!]  The distributions (supposedly $10K/year) will usually come back as return of capital.  You will get a K-1 each year that will show your "Capital Account" (think basis).  The K-1s likely will have huge depreciation the first year and lower depreciation the following 4 years. The K-1s will show some gains or losses each year that apply to your 1040. On the last year, when it sells, you get a big check for $150K (your $100, plus the rest of the return).  You will get to use some of the depreciation, but you will get to pay Cap Gain on the increase, most of the $100K.  (Delayed until the end of the deal and paying Cap Gain rate on passive income!)  

    If you had been a RE Pro, you would have used the depreciation each year to make your W-2 income go away, but would pay Cap Gain on more when it sold.  (Lower Tax Rate, that is moving earned income to Cap Gain rate and delayed!)  When you are not a RE Pro, you are limited to (I think) $3K against earned income.  

    Say you buy into another deal the year the above deal sold; the depreciation on the bought deal will hide some gain on the sold deal.  If accelerated (bonus) depreciation (cost segregation) is still available, it will be a large amount removed from the prior gain.  

    You may wish to form a pass through LLC so that the gains and losses are summed before passing to you. I'm not sure this makes a hill of beans, as it is pass-through, but my CPA seems to think it is better. Once you start getting multiple K-1s, you might let a pro do your taxes...

    Regards,

    Charles LeMaire 

  • Rental Property Investor · Weehawken, NJ · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 704 votes
    7y

    @Duke Giordano

    Tax issues >> talk to a CPA, as mentioned.

    As for choosing deals. Plenty of good syndicators and good syndication experiences on BP. No need to start with a $200k min. There are plenty of decent projects with $50k minimums. The lower threshold would let you try out several strategies and return models. Eventually, you will get into a groove with a mix of ongoing relationships and deal styles that work for you.

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