New England · Member since 2019 · 11 posts · 6 votes
Good evening everyone! I am an aspiring real estate investor in the New England area currently searching for my first property. If anyone is investing in Maine currently, I'd love to touch base!
@Deron S. above you referenced lead paint. You do not need to get rid of lead paint in Maine before renting it out. The only concern is with young people real young and if you encapsulate it meaning have no peeling paint no chips but you covered up with a latex paint you should be fine. Sometimes it’s only around the trim areas and it would make sense to replace the trim but that is usually not the case. if you are renting to low income tenants with children Who like to put things in their mouths and they have had lead paint poison from a previous landlord they can test the child and if it comes up positive, they can come back to your place. Even though the poison didn’t come from your apartment. So you definitely don’t want peeling or chipped paint anywhere that a young child could eat it. It is just good maintenance practice anyway because people can have visitors come over and run into the same situation.
This is a great place to learn and network. A lot of forum members are very knowledgeable in their respective fields related to real estate investing, whether that is real estate sales, wholesaling, flipping, rentals, lending, self-directed IRA and Solo 401k investing, or tax and legal guidance.
@Justin Windham Thank you for all of the insight! I've found all of your links to be helpful.
@Greg Szymbor I'm looking in the Mid Coast area right now. I have a single family/duplexes that I am interested in, but pretty nervous to pull the trigger.
Hi Deron - welcome to BP! There's a lot of opportunities to invest here in Maine. If you are coming in from out of the area, Maine can look really good due to the lower entry costs. Some things I have learned about Maine that need to be considered though:
Taxes are relatively high compared to some other regions (all of New England/northeast are generally high property tax states)
Heating and utilities are expensive here and often cut into landlord's profits as some of these are more difficult to pass on to the tenants than in other regions
The housing stock is generally really really old (early - 1900s) and that comes with a lot more maintenance and CapEx than newer homes. So this has to be accounted for more than other areas
Hope this helps! I'm investing out of Maine and also here in Maine in the Bangor area.
@Eddie Gonnella You mentioned one of the concerns with houses in Maine is their age. How big of a problem is lead based paint in homes? Is it expected as landlords that we remove it before we have tenants ?
Hi Deron, nice to know another mid-coast Maine investor. I have a duplex in Belfast that I am currently doing a live-in reno on, living in one unit while the other is rented. We have found that coastal Maine taxes and some renovation expenses are a lot higher but the housing market for rentals has a pretty big up-side if you can find the right deal, they are certainly out there to be had. I'd be happy to look any over if you want a second set of eyes on the numbers. Good luck, it really does get easier after the first one!
@Deron S. That’s a good question. I haven’t had to deal with it yet, but I do think it can become a pain. Have you tried searching the forums for any posts about Maine and lead paint? I think I’ve read some but cannot remember exactly where. Another good resource would probably be a contractor. Let me know if you find anything, I’ll do the same!
@Deron S. I'm 35 days away from relocating from Plymouth, MA to China, ME. We've been looking in mid-coast for several months and I'm getting a good feel for the market.
When compared with Plymouth, home prices are a little less than half - and so are real estate taxes. Your money goes a lot further in Maine, especially as you move away from Portland and away from the coast.
The home we're buying is 3,240 sq ft, 3.65 acres, 3/2 with heated 3 car garage and at the end of a nice dead end street. Built in 2006 and is in immaculate condition. We're under contract for $328,000. If that property was moved to Plymouth, it would be in the high $600K range and taxes would be about $12,000 vs the $3,490 in China.
With the incredibly anti-landlord regulations in Massachusetts, I'd never consider owning rentals in Mass. A professional tenant can tie up a landlord for a year without paying a dime. And heaven help you if you try a self-help eviction. The courts will eat you alive. This state looks at landlords as capitalist scum who makes their ill-gotten money from the sweat on the backs of the working class. It's openly hostile.
Maine appears to be a different case. I'm told that a worst case scenario in Maine is 45 days to forcible eviction with the help of the Sheriff, so once settled, I will start looking for rental properties. My focus area will be the same as I plan to cover in my role as a Realtor - Waterville, Augusta, Bangor, north to Bar Harbor, south as far as Wiscasset, west to Skowhegan.
I'm not a fan of long distance investing as my risk tolerance is pretty low. I may put some effort in to short term rentals as there are some ski areas to the west and summer / ocean areas to the east.
At least that's the plan at the moment. I reserve the right to change my mind on a moment's notice.
@Deron S. above you referenced lead paint. You do not need to get rid of lead paint in Maine before renting it out. The only concern is with young people real young and if you encapsulate it meaning have no peeling paint no chips but you covered up with a latex paint you should be fine. Sometimes it’s only around the trim areas and it would make sense to replace the trim but that is usually not the case. if you are renting to low income tenants with children Who like to put things in their mouths and they have had lead paint poison from a previous landlord they can test the child and if it comes up positive, they can come back to your place. Even though the poison didn’t come from your apartment. So you definitely don’t want peeling or chipped paint anywhere that a young child could eat it. It is just good maintenance practice anyway because people can have visitors come over and run into the same situation.
@Deron S. above you referenced lead paint. You do not need to get rid of lead paint in Maine before renting it out. The only concern is with young people real young and if you encapsulate it meaning have no peeling paint no chips but you covered up with a latex paint you should be fine. Sometimes it’s only around the trim areas and it would make sense to replace the trim but that is usually not the case. if you are renting to low income tenants with children Who like to put things in their mouths and they have had lead paint poison from a previous landlord they can test the child and if it comes up positive, they can come back to your place. Even though the poison didn’t come from your apartment. So you definitely don’t want peeling or chipped paint anywhere that a young child could eat it. It is just good maintenance practice anyway because people can have visitors come over and run into the same situation.
What you say here is not even close to legal, nor is encapsulating lead based paint done by covering it up with latex paint. Latex paint doesn't encapsulate the lead at all. Encapsulant is a special coating, almost like liquid rubber, that needs to be applied to specific thickness and tests need to be done to the components to determine if we can even encapsulate. Sometimes we can't. If someone in MA did what you suggest here they would be fined huge amounts. There are very specific laws on who can delead an apartment, what components need deleading, what methods we can use on different components, and how we clean up after we're done. If I even have the wrong shop vac on site, I get fined $32,500.
You changing trim that has lead paint on it is actually worse then you leaving it in place. Trim isn't where lead poisoning generally comes from, windows, window stops, doors, and door jambs are the worst offenders. Where the parts rub, they make dust, this is the most common culprit. That dust ends up everywhere and the kids get it on their hands and then into their mouths, eyes, and noses.
You are correct in that you should keep surfaces with lead based paint intact. Unfortunately that's not always possible as the paint comes detached from the surface below. Any amount of paint over top of it won't hold it in place.
@Eddie Gonnella You mentioned one of the concerns with houses in Maine is their age. How big of a problem is lead based paint in homes? Is it expected as landlords that we remove it before we have tenants ?
Lead Paint Laws vary by state. There are federal EPA laws that need to be followed in every state that include RRP. You can learn about those on the EPA website. State laws, however vary and you need to look up Maine's laws on the subject. Some states have no additional laws over the EPA's, others like MA have super strict laws. Do your research before you buy a house built before 1978 as you can use lead based paint as a negotiation tool.
@Deron S. above you referenced lead paint. You do not need to get rid of lead paint in Maine before renting it out. The only concern is with young people real young and if you encapsulate it meaning have no peeling paint no chips but you covered up with a latex paint you should be fine. Sometimes it’s only around the trim areas and it would make sense to replace the trim but that is usually not the case. if you are renting to low income tenants with children Who like to put things in their mouths and they have had lead paint poison from a previous landlord they can test the child and if it comes up positive, they can come back to your place. Even though the poison didn’t come from your apartment. So you definitely don’t want peeling or chipped paint anywhere that a young child could eat it. It is just good maintenance practice anyway because people can have visitors come over and run into the same situation.
What you say here is not even close to legal, nor is encapsulating lead based paint done by covering it up with latex paint. Latex paint doesn't encapsulate the lead at all. Encapsulant is a special coating, almost like liquid rubber, that needs to be applied to specific thickness and tests need to be done to the components to determine if we can even encapsulate. Sometimes we can't. If someone in MA did what you suggest here they would be fined huge amounts. There are very specific laws on who can delead an apartment, what components need deleading, what methods we can use on different components, and how we clean up after we're done. If I even have the wrong shop vac on site, I get fined $32,500.
You changing trim that has lead paint on it is actually worse then you leaving it in place. Trim isn't where lead poisoning generally comes from, windows, window stops, doors, and door jambs are the worst offenders. Where the parts rub, they make dust, this is the most common culprit. That dust ends up everywhere and the kids get it on their hands and then into their mouths, eyes, and noses.
You are correct in that you should keep surfaces with lead based paint intact. Unfortunately that's not always possible as the paint comes detached from the surface below. Any amount of paint over top of it won't hold it in place.
@Derreck Wells Points well made. If @Eddie Gonnella is actually going to abate a property for HUD or other government contract, your expertise is something he should seek out. However, I believe he was just asking if the unit needs to be abated before it can be rented in Maine and the answer is still no. The law requires tenants to be given the booklet about lead paint safety which is available on the pine tree legal website and then the signed acknowledgment letter is kept in their files. I guess I should have used the term “sealed” rather than “encapsulated” to describe painting it over with latex. The section 8, HUD and CHCS inspectors that I deal with are satisfied if this procedure is followed and nothing is loose, chipped or flaking. But thanks for setting me straight.
@Eileen McCue I am actually looking at a few places just south of you in the Mid Coast area. Thank you for the reply and I would love to hear how you crunch numbers and evaluate properties!