Has anybody ever looked at the Zillow advice threads?

Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2008 · 759 posts · 185 votes

Wow, wow, wow, wow

I went over to Zillow and posted a little advice in there consumer question/ advice area, and BAM.....I was brutally attacked from all sides!!!

Those folks are gloom & doom to the nth power!!!!!

To give you an example of how bad it was, one lady suggested that my daughter needed to go work as a stripper?

It just goes to show you what a great job Josh does for all of us here on BP. :D

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Joshua D.Pro Member
BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
17y
Damn, Harrison. That's certainly not cool.

Some people complain that we're strict here, but your comment just goes to show that the result is a place where people don't have to worry about being attacked.

Spread the word - spread the love - BP is THE Place to Be!
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Nick J.
Residential Real Estate Broker · Payson, AZ · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
they're just angry b/c they still think Zillow has great comps and can't figure out why they keep buying to high
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Harrison Painter
OP
Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2008 · 759 posts · 185 votes
17y
You are right, Zillow comps are crazy off!!!!!!

My houses are showing up in the high $80's to low $90's. Can I present that to the banks whenever they send me a low appraisal? :mrgreen:
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Robert AdamsBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Henderson, NV · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 373 votes
17y
Zillow's "Zesitmates" are usually off. I am constantly telling people there to get CMA's from Realtors instead.
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Drew Meyers
Member since 2009 · 3 posts · 0 votes
17y
Josh-
Tough crowd here at BP :)

Harrison Painter-
Sorry for your bad experience, but we do moderate Zillow Advice - the things we don't tolerate are SPAM, personal insults, and hijacking of threads. Next time you see one of those things, please just flag the thread and our CS team will take a look and take the appropriate action. The comment you mention definitely falls into the "personal insults" category and should have been removed; if the comment you mentioned is still posted, please flag it and we'll remove it.

"Those folks are gloom & doom to the nth power!!!!!"
We let both sides of the "Now's a great time to buy" argument have a voice, which you don't find in many places online. The comments in Advice just mirror conversations happening in real life everyday. The thread you started asking about our moderation policies got quite a few responses and I think the comments there clearly show we are pretty unbiased in terms of moderating our boards. http://www.zillow.com/advice-thread/Should-Zillow-management-start-enforcing-their-Good-Neighbor-Policy/217146/

Robert-
Zestimates are estimates. They are not a replacements for a CMA or appraisal by a local professional and I rational consumers understand that. We recommend consumers contact a local professional for a more accurate valuation as well.
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Amy L.
Commercial Real Estate Agent · Boston, MA · Member since 2008 · 114 posts · 15 votes
17y
Originally posted by Drew Meyers:

Zestimates are estimates. They are not a replacements for a CMA or appraisal by a local professional and I rational consumers understand that. We recommend consumers contact a local professional for a more accurate valuation as well.

I strongly disagree with you here Drew. Only the most sophisticated consumers, pros and investors know that your site values are not replacements for CMAs or appraisals. Spend a few minutes on any property sale website, classified site, or simply have a conversation with people and they'll quote zillow prices. That's great for your brand, but not so great for the market. When people use incorrect values to make important purchasing or selling decisions, they are just putting themselves in potential trouble.
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Harrison Painter
OP
Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2008 · 759 posts · 185 votes
17y
Drew,

I have no choice but to call you out on this one, if for anything else, doing an extremely poor job:

Lets me share a couple of links to prove my point.

http://www.zillow.com/advice-thread/should-agents-be-required/217187/

http://www.zillow.com/advice-thread/Should-Zillow-management-start-enforcing-their-Good-Neighbor-Policy/217146/

http://www.zillow.com/advice-thread/Zillow-welcomes-Harrison-Painter/216013/

http://www.zillow.com/advice-thread/Five-Reasons-Not-to-Buy-a-Home-This-Year/198421/

You will see a trend of attacks. I am not going to give any company props that moderates 48 hours after personal attacks happen, and the Zillow brand should be ashamed of themsleves.

Nobody is against differing veiw points, but a moderator MUST keep the respect levels to an appropriate level.

Poll any real estate agent over there, and they will tell you that it is UNACCEPTABLE and OFFENSIVE.

I looked at your advertisers, and there is no way they should want their image to be associated with that kind of behavior.

BP is so great because it is moderated by passionate people who take great pride in what they do.

We have MANY discussions of differing opinions, and many folks here are from the gloom & doom mindset, as well as seeing opportunity in the challenges. We have a very diverse community made up of RESPECTFUL people.

If ANYBODY ever attacked a person, especially their family, they would be banned for life.
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Amy L.
Commercial Real Estate Agent · Boston, MA · Member since 2008 · 114 posts · 15 votes
17y
I was going to say the same thing as Harrison, and the irony is that the post you use as an example is rife with personal attacks.

I'll stick around here.
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Mark Brian
Involved In Real Estate · Anderson, SC · Member since 2008 · 350 posts · 70 votes
17y
Zillow, Trulia and the housing forum on Craigslist are all useless because of the trolls.
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Harrison Painter
OP
Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2008 · 759 posts · 185 votes
17y
You guys are going to love this:

Here is Zillow response to me:

Harrison -

We do moderate this forum, thanks. Personal insults, SPAM, obscene language and off-topic posts are not allowed here and may be deleted. We rely on user flags to identify most of this stuff. We don't have anyone on staff at midnight to mediate your spats but we do have moderators in Zillow Advice 7 days a week. We run a bit thin on weekends so you may have to wait till Monday if you get into a big argument on a Sunday evening.

Some advice ... respect is earned and can't be demanded. Likewise, disrespect can be earned. Last week, when you said "There has NEVER been a better time to buy than in 2009!" you earned the dispespect of many of the folks here. My advice to you would be to take a more honest approach and consider apologizing for that error. You'll be surprised what a powerful impression you can make by simply being honest about the market and genuinely trying to help.

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Harrison Painter
OP
Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2008 · 759 posts · 185 votes
17y
Here is my response back:

David,

It IS my opinion that this is the best time to buy, and i have bought 9 houses this year alone.

Why would I apologize for my opinion, especially when I stand behind it, and am following my own advice with success?

Really, that is the Zillow stance?

No wonder I offer so much content to BiggerPockets They do monitor 7 days a week, stand behind their brand, and treat every person with respect.

It is clear that you do not. Your company is only providing a disservice to the real estate community, and your advertisers.

Great job!
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Harrison Painter
OP
Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2008 · 759 posts · 185 votes
17y
The response back from David:

Sorry, Harrison, but there have been LOTS of better markets for both buyers and investors. "Never" is a very long time. It may be your opinion (or hope) but it's certainly not the fact you believe it to be. Sorry to be blunt but you have about as much credibility in chearing the housing market as I do when I rave about the new iPhone (full disclosure: I am long AAPL.) As both an investor and an agent you have more inherent bias in these discussions than just about anybody here. If you're going to have any credibility it's important to recognize that bias and not to overdo it. You may get away with chearing the markets your investments are in on BiggerPockets - but that's because everyone there is exactly the same as you are. Real life is a bit more diverse.

Wow...........I am talking to the COO now, so I will let you guys know if this is actually the corporate offices stance or not.

Stay tuned!
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Will BarnardPro Member
Moderator
Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
17y
Harrison,

The response you received from them (Zillow) is typical of a lame justification for allowing personal attacks to occur.
MOST seasoned RE investors would agree that the current market provides for one of the most (if not the most) incredible buying opportunities. Even for owner occupants, the prices have dipped back to 2002 levels and the interest rates are at historic (HISTORIC I SAID) lows. Add in the government $8k credit and you have yourself one of, if not the best times to buy real estate.

Can someone argue that? Of course, but lets hear the reasoning behind the argument. Claiimg that you "lost respect" due to your post is simply ridiculous and i invite Drew back to post a "real reson" for the Zillow inability to proerly moderate attackers and posts made by the extremely ignorant.

Drew, you stepped into a forum filled with professionals and not a bunch of common morons. I certainly hope your second post on BP has more foundation to it!
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Josh Green
Financial Advisor · Tampa Area, FL · Member since 2008 · 956 posts · 214 votes
17y
wow...i can't wait to hear more about this from zillow...this is pretty awesome! lol
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Drew Meyers
Member since 2009 · 3 posts · 0 votes
17y
Sure, personal insults happen every now and then. But as I said, we'll remove personal attacks that are brought to our attention. If there is something on Zillow you think should be removed, please flag it and our moderation team will look into it.

Part of the origin of this issue is that Harrison stated in Zillow Advice that "There has NEVER been a better time to buy than in 2009!". If that's his opinion, that's fine - but that's not the route of this issue. He needs to realize there are many people who strongly disagree with that and are going to argue against that point 100 out of 100 times. And yes, some people on zillow are very outspoken -- but there is a difference between attacking ideas and attacking people.

"Drew, you stepped into a forum filled with professionals and not a bunch of common morons."

Being the professional that you are, I'm surprised you'd make the assumption that everyone on Zillow are "common morons". That's surely not the case and it looks poorly on you for making a broad generalization like that (just like it would look poorly on someone in Z Advice who generalized that all agents are morons). I'm not sure what type of response you are looking for from me after making that statement.
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Harrison Painter
OP
Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2008 · 759 posts · 185 votes
17y
Drew, if folks would not have attacked, and the moderators would have enforced the "Good Neighbor Policy", then my opinion about the market would have only lasted a couple of posts.

Here is a post from 24 minutes ago attacking me, and my wife: "total Armando Montelongo douche-ish wanna Bs."

Does this fit the Good Neighbor Policy?

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Drew Meyers
Member since 2009 · 3 posts · 0 votes
17y
No, that is not inline with our good neighbor policy -- I just removed the comment.
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Nick J.
Residential Real Estate Broker · Payson, AZ · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
Zillow sucks, and that's an attack at anyone who takes it personally.
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Anthony Sulecki
Real Estate Investor · Millsboro, DE · Member since 2008 · 480 posts · 26 votes
17y
zillow can be used, but not for actual property value. its really not even a base anymore, like many investors were using it for a 2-3 years ago. as of april 2009, i would not use it for comparables at all, period. maybe the broadest of the broad approach.
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James Hiddle
Altus, OK · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 690 votes
17y
Why are they still on the net when they are useless as comps.

Estimates aren't actual numbers even if you use them as a baseline you still need the CMA's from agents why bother.
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Mark N.A
Real Estate Investor · North Carolina · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 483 votes
17y
There are three types of people who visit Biggerpockets:

Those who want to learn.
Those who want to share.
Those who want to sell something.

If you visit another site full of sheeple and some of the herd craps on you, why stay? If you do stay, examine your motives and adjust.
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Harrison Painter
OP
Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2008 · 759 posts · 185 votes
17y
I learn a lot more about real estate from the people that I do not agree with, and my main focus on heading over to Zillow was to get the consumer point of view of the market, and share my opinion with others as somebody who loves this business.

BP is the best website on the web, but we do not have a lot of members who are the average owner occupant consumer. That is just not our communities demographic.

My problem is not with the information and opinions presented over there, as many of the folks have some great points, and share some solid data.

My issue is in the fact that they have allowed a small group of people to take over, and no matter what Drew tries to say, the facts show that they allow people to be rude and disrespectful to others.

I had a chance to communicate with their COO, Spencer Rascoff, and he was generous enough to share with me his perspective. They have a much different mindset, and while I do not agree with the lax rules and personal attacks, there is enough room on the web for everybody.

In time, the numbers of people that stick around and provide quality content will eventually show if they are on the right path or not. I am not sold that what they are allowing is good for their brand, but that is for Zillow to ultimately decide.

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Will BarnardPro Member
Moderator
Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
17y
Drew, please point out and copy paste where I said that "everyone on Zillow are common morons". I said no such thing and you are the one making assumptions. The point of my statement that you stepped into a community here on BP that is not full of common morons was simply to say that we as a whole, do not put up with or allow attacks to happen such as the example of Harrison's experience. Regardless of your attempt to justify why it happended, the fact remains that it did and you failed to respond in a reasonable time frame. The other point is that only common morons would make personal attacks to a opinionated statement that now is the best time to buy RE. While many may disagree with that, many will also agree. The only point is, professional and respectful people would say something like, I diagree with that because I believe the large number of foreclosures that are occuriing will bring the RE market down much further.
Your statement that Harrison "lost the respect" of others on Zillow due to his opinion is a ridiculous justification for the few "morons" that made such ignorant and personal attacks to him and his family.

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Terry Kubiak
Real Estate Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2009 · 47 posts · 0 votes
17y
Drew,
Zillow is incredible. Did you guys build the site from scratch or is it a pre-program type application?
Terry
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Franklin Lee
VA · Member since 2008 · 82 posts · 1 vote
17y
Zillow is retarded. The neighborhood next to mine is low class, but we have the golf course and 2 swimming pools, and Zillow still calls out my house at least 120,000 dollars below the true market value.
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