Where have all the LEADERS gone?

Where have all the LEADERS gone?

Real Estate Investor · Santa Cruz, CA · Member since 2009 · 267 posts · 73 votes

It seems in this day and age, I constantly find myself looking to men of the past for guidance and advice: Warren Buffet, Abraham Lincoln, Dale Carnegie, Earl Nightingale, Thomas Jefferson, just to name a few. I do not have a particular bias toward leaders of the past. I just cannot look up to any of the leaders we have today, they seem to have lost the touch, of which men of the past once had. They used to communicate with such conviction, people believed them, and likewise, the leaders enforced belief in the people. Lee Iacoca truly hit it on the head with his recent book highlighting today's lack of leadership. The true leaders of the past were the epitome of what the world's image is of a humble American. But this image has become so distorted over the years, it seems America's leaders are a thing of the past, extinct like the dinosaurs.

So, my question to you is this: Why has the quality of American leadership deteriorated so rapidly over the past 50 years?

(Only thoughtful answers welcome, no one liners please)

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Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
17y

America's strength is in its rejuvenation, in its new blood. The US is very similar to Australia but unlike Australia, those who came here were driven to make their life better whether it was religiously or economically. Over America's short history, the country produced some great leaders and some really bad and mediocre ones. Some very smart ones and some down right stupid ones. We owe our success to our passion and strive to succeeds although at times, it can be our Achilles' heel. Pointing out "How great we are" will never make us better. Citing our shortcoming and looking for ways to improve on, will ensure our status as the leading nation.

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  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Since if appears I have to explain this, everything Charleton Heston spoke against was lifestyle choices. Choices he disagreed with.

    When he marched with Martin Luther King Jr., he fought for equal rights amongst all races. That includes the equal right to be a total idiot he would later find himself disagreeing with - but not oppressing under dogs and firehoses.

    This is something liberals just don't get. Equality means just that - equality. Equality of choice and the equality of being called out on your complete b.s.

  • Investor · colorado springs, CO · Member since 2009 · 283 posts · 45 votes
    17y

    Based on this logic, 75% of posters here are connected to Wasilla politics.

    Great job, folks!

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Sorin T:
    Based on this logic, 75% of posters here are connected to Wasilla politics.

    Great job, folks!


    How's Wasilla doing financially compared to California?
  • Investor · colorado springs, CO · Member since 2009 · 283 posts · 45 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Originally posted by Sorin T:
    Based on this logic, 75% of posters here are connected to Wasilla politics.

    Great job, folks!


    How's Wasilla doing financially compared to California?


    If you want to assume merits for their "performance" I consider that far fetched, but typical.

    And as usual, the point made was entirely lost.

  • Investor · colorado springs, CO · Member since 2009 · 283 posts · 45 votes
    17y

    Speaking of Wasilla, here's what you have to be proud of. An oldie but goodie

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-october-20-2008/understanding-real-america-in-wasilla

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Sorin T:
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Originally posted by Sorin T:
    Based on this logic, 75% of posters here are connected to Wasilla politics.

    Great job, folks!


    How's Wasilla doing financially compared to California?


    If you want to assume merits for their "performance" I consider that far fetched, but typical.

    And as usual, the point made was entirely lost.


    Nope. Just a simple analysis of sustainable vs. unsustainable. Which system is completely bankrupt from liberal lunacy?
  • Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
    I don't see how you connect Buffet to Chicago politics.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PDLcL0H_5k&feature=related


    You are not making any news here, Tim. I know Buffet endorsed Obama (Although he somewhat cooled off recently) But where is the evidence of his connection the "Chicago politics" in the context of your observation of what is "Chicago politics"?
  • Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Originally posted by Sorin T:
    Based on this logic, 75% of posters here are connected to Wasilla politics.

    Great job, folks!


    How's Wasilla doing financially compared to California?


    Much better then Indiana, thank you very much...
  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
    I don't see how you connect Buffet to Chicago politics.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PDLcL0H_5k&feature=related


    Seriously Tim?

    You consider this to be a connection between Buffet and Chicago politics.

    You know, when I first started responding to your Political posts, there were a bunch of people who would support you and jump to your defense when you said something. I don't see any of that anymore, and I guess now we know why...
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:

    How's Wasilla doing financially compared to California?


    Tim - Did you vote for Reagan? If so, you are connected to California politics...so anything wrong with California is partly your fault.

    ....

    Wow, now I understand why Tim likes to debate...it's fun what you can use the logic of a 4 year old...
  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Originally posted by Sorin T:
    Based on this logic, 75% of posters here are connected to Wasilla politics.

    Great job, folks!


    How's Wasilla doing financially compared to California?


    Much better then Indiana, thank you very much...


    Nope. Wrong. Under CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN Governor Mitch Daniels, our state budget is in SURPLUS! Yes - that is a current surplus during the "recession". Nice try. Thank you for playing. Y'all can keep your California "economics".

    http://www.thenextright.com/soren-dayton/indiana-budget-in-surplus
  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Y'all can keep your California "economics".


    Don't forget, by your logic, if you supported Ronald Reagan, you're connected to California politics...

    So, it's YOUR economics too...

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Now that I thought about this - that adds one to my list. Governor Mitch Daniels!

    Holy crap....if he continues a surplus while 48 states continue to go to the toilets....maybe he could run in 2012?

    Hmmmmm.....

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Y'all can keep your California "economics".


    Don't forget, by your logic, if you supported Ronald Reagan, you're connected to California politics...

    So, it's YOUR economics too...


    Again - WRONG! The last and only time California's budget was pulled out of a crisis and into surplus was under Governor Ronald Reagan. The economy in California today is the type of liberal economy he fixed, not the one he created. Keep trying liberals. You can't change Indiana's balance sheet and you can't change California's history.
  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Just did some more research. Mitch Daniels was part of the Reagan administration..... Holy crap how did we ignore him and put up John McCain?

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    You can't change Indiana's balance sheet and you can't change California's history.


    Sorry Tim...your logic...

    If Buffet is part of "Chicago politics" because he supported Obama, then you're part of "California politics" because you supported Reagan.

    I know it sounds stupid, but you should have thought about that when you came up with the Buffet/Chicago idiocracy...

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    then you're part of "California politics" because you supported Reagan.


    The California politics of Reagan's time that ended up in budget surpluses and had the philosophies of "send the welfare bums back to work" and "clean up the mess at Berkeley" - YOU BET I AM! You can put a billboard in my yard linking me to that!
  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:

    The California politics of Reagan's time that ended up in budget surpluses and had the philosophies of "send the welfare bums back to work" and "clean up the mess at Berkeley" - YOU BET I AM! You can put a billboard in my yard linking me to that!


    Oh, I see, you get to pick and choose which part of the politics you are associated with and which parts you are not.

    You forgot to mention those rules...

    In that case, I believe Buffet is part of the Chicago politics that is not corrupt and that is truly trying to help their city and the nation.

    Glad we got that resolved...or do you want to make up more rules as we go along?

  • Investor · colorado springs, CO · Member since 2009 · 283 posts · 45 votes
    17y

    since Tim here likes to brag about wasilla's financial greatness under palin I thought some fact check would be in order, here is what I found, Now if I were Tim I'd say check mate (or mission accomplished) but I'm not...

    Total Government Expenditures Increased 63 Percent Under Palin. In

    fiscal 2003—the last fiscal year Palin approved the budget—the total

    government expenditures of Wasilla, excluding capital outlays, were

    $7,046,325. In fiscal 1996—the year before Palin took control of the

    budget—the expenditures were $4,317,947. The increase was 63 percent.

    Wasilla Comprehensive Annual Financial Report 2003, Table 1

    Palin Supported Increasing Wasilla Sales Tax From 2 to 2.5 Percent

    to Build $14.7 Million Sports Center. “Wasilla residents have given the

    go ahead to building a new multiuse sports center in town and to

    raising the city sales tax to pay for it. With the final votes counted

    Friday, residents voted 306 to 286 in favor of a measure to raise the

    city sales tax from 2 percent to 2.5 percent to pay the estimated $14.7

    million cost of building the center…Mayor Sarah Palin, who supported

    the measure, said the tight vote will motivate city officials to keep a

    close eye on the budget for the center.†Anchorage Daily News, 3/9/02

    Palin Left Behind Almost $19 Million In Long-Term Debt, Compared to

    None Before She Was Mayor. In fiscal 2003—the last fiscal year Palin

    approved the budget—the bonded long-term debt was $18,635,000. In

    fiscal 1996—the year before Palin took control of the budget—there was

    no general obligation debt. [Wasilla Comprehensive Annual Financial

    Report 2003, Table 10]

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Sorin T:
    residents voted 306 to 286 in favor of a measure to raise the city sales tax


    Huh - it was put to referendum and people voted in favor of a public works project with no impact on their income taxes.....and further down the post Sorin represents the attitude of a homeowner vs. an investor, which is a complete lack of understanding of good debt vs. bad debt. You'd have better luck telling Mike or myself that we were fiscally irresponsible to buy cash flowing properties because it would require us to take on debt.

    And what the heck! 2.5% SALES TAX? Holy crap I've never heard of sales tax that low. That would be a dream in Chicago, where sales tax is 10%!
  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Oh, I see, you get to pick and choose which part of the politics you are associated with and which parts you are not.


    You were the one who specified Reagan. I was in complete agreement with you.
  • Investor · colorado springs, CO · Member since 2009 · 283 posts · 45 votes
    17y

    Sure, leave it to Tim to twist negative into positive.

    You ought to consider a career in politics Tim. Here are the cold FACTS: govt expenditures have increased, taxes have increased, debt has increased (from ZERO) no matter how many times you spin it. But congrats on your wasilla politics involvement, I hope you watched (and enjoyed) the video,,,

  • Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Nope. Wrong. Under CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN Governor Mitch Daniels, our state budget is in SURPLUS! Yes - that is a current surplus during the "recession". Nice try. Thank you for playing. Y'all can keep your California "economics".

    http://www.thenextright.com/soren-dayton/indiana-budget-in-surplus

    What does a "CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN" have to do with that? We have one!! In the matter of fact, except Gray Davis, most of our recent governors were Republican. Now, knowing you, you would probably claim that Arnold is not a real conservative and socially, you would be right, but we are not taking socially here. Fiscally, he is very conservative and I'm personally happy about it (I voted for him). Here in California, I would always vote for a conservative Governor to offset the democratic legislative body. However, that doesn't change the picture, when the recovery come, and it will come, opportunities (...and weather) here will be much better then Indiana... Not to mention - We have In & Out...
  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
    What does a "CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN" have to do with that? We have one!!


    Whahhaahaha....oh excuse me was that out loud?


    Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
    Now, knowing you, you would probably claim that Arnold is not a real conservative


    I don't have to. CNN does it for me. http://newsbusters.org/node/9192/print


    Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
    when the recovery come, and it will come, opportunities (...and weather) here will be much better then Indiana...


    Uh huh. Opportunity for what? Opportunity of an industry depends heavily on your geography. There's plenty of opportunity right here, right now.

    The thing about investors just about everywhere else is we don't wait for some arbitrary "recovery" to make opportunity.


    Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
    Not to mention - We have In & Out...


    Now that's just not fair.... I may have something to compete with you though. I have been in conversations with a friend of mine who's going through a divorce and may buy out his soon to be ex wife's 50% share in their restaurant.
  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    I may have something to compete with you though. I have been in conversations with a friend of mine who's going through a divorce and may buy out his soon to be ex wife's 50% share in their restaurant.


    Who am I kidding...it's not going to even compare to In & Out. Ok, that's it. I'm buying another ticket out there again tonight.
  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:

    Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
    Now, knowing you, you would probably claim that Arnold is not a real conservative


    I don't have to. CNN does it for me. http://newsbusters.org/node/9192/print


    Okay, for future reference, it's good to know that Tim considers CNN to be a reliable source...

    Now I can start referencing CNN when I have discussions with Tim, and can be confident that he won't just blow it off as an untrustworthy source...

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