Where have all the LEADERS gone?

Where have all the LEADERS gone?

Real Estate Investor · Santa Cruz, CA · Member since 2009 · 267 posts · 73 votes

It seems in this day and age, I constantly find myself looking to men of the past for guidance and advice: Warren Buffet, Abraham Lincoln, Dale Carnegie, Earl Nightingale, Thomas Jefferson, just to name a few. I do not have a particular bias toward leaders of the past. I just cannot look up to any of the leaders we have today, they seem to have lost the touch, of which men of the past once had. They used to communicate with such conviction, people believed them, and likewise, the leaders enforced belief in the people. Lee Iacoca truly hit it on the head with his recent book highlighting today's lack of leadership. The true leaders of the past were the epitome of what the world's image is of a humble American. But this image has become so distorted over the years, it seems America's leaders are a thing of the past, extinct like the dinosaurs.

So, my question to you is this: Why has the quality of American leadership deteriorated so rapidly over the past 50 years?

(Only thoughtful answers welcome, no one liners please)

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Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
17y

America's strength is in its rejuvenation, in its new blood. The US is very similar to Australia but unlike Australia, those who came here were driven to make their life better whether it was religiously or economically. Over America's short history, the country produced some great leaders and some really bad and mediocre ones. Some very smart ones and some down right stupid ones. We owe our success to our passion and strive to succeeds although at times, it can be our Achilles' heel. Pointing out "How great we are" will never make us better. Citing our shortcoming and looking for ways to improve on, will ensure our status as the leading nation.

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  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:

    Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
    Now, knowing you, you would probably claim that Arnold is not a real conservative


    I don't have to. CNN does it for me. http://newsbusters.org/node/9192/print


    Okay, for future reference, it's good to know that Tim considers CNN to be a reliable source...

    Now I can start referencing CNN when I have discussions with Tim, and can be confident that he won't just blow it off as an untrustworthy source...


    Every once in a while they get it right. Like the time they reported on the 900 tons of uranium found in Iraq even though liberals continue to believe there was no evidence of any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
  • Investor · colorado springs, CO · Member since 2009 · 283 posts · 45 votes
    17y

    A good laugh is a great way to start a week-end. Credits go to Tim.

  • Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:

    Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
    Now, knowing you, you would probably claim that Arnold is not a real conservative


    I don't have to. CNN does it for me. http://newsbusters.org/node/9192/print


    Okay, for future reference, it's good to know that Tim considers CNN to be a reliable source...

    Now I can start referencing CNN when I have discussions with Tim, and can be confident that he won't just blow it off as an untrustworthy source...


    Every once in a while they get it right. Like the time they reported on the 900 tons of uranium found in Iraq even though liberals continue to believe there was no evidence of any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.


    Tim, you are so engulfed in your own doctrine that I have a feeling that CNN is only right when it fits your idas...
  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:

    Every once in a while they get it right. Like the time they reported on the 900 tons of uranium found in Iraq even though liberals continue to believe there was no evidence of any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.


    Wow Tim, you're even MORE naive than George W (and that's saying A LOT)...

    It took 7 years, but EVEN HE figured out that there were no WMD in Iraq:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_A77N5WKWM

    You claim that you're "average," but I think you just proved that you have a long way to go to reach that dream...
  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    So now you're to the level of direct insults and personal attacks Jason?

    Not surprising. After all, it was Mahatma Ghandi who said, "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, and then you win"

    I watched that speech by Bush and he said was that there were no finished WMDs but he had the capacity to make them. All the raw materials were there and the program was underway. You know that Saddam Hussein was actively making weapons of mass destruction. Don't try to B.S. me. Bush knew it, Clinton knew it, Pelosi knew it, EVERYONE in all of Washington knew it. Clinton used military action to disrupt his weapons program and then sent in the diplomacy clowns who accomplished nothing - but they gave diplomacy a shot which I can respect to a degree. Everyone knew he was trying to put these weapons together and everyone knew he had no problem using chemical weapons on civilians. Saddam was claiming he completed WMDs and had them ready to use! The game changed after 9/11. It was no longer an option to disrupt it. It HAD to be eliminated and thank God Bush happened to be in office at that time and got rid of it or we would have had some clown like Obama bowing to Hussein. Good gried, I can't believe I actually have to explain this to a supposed "libertarian".

    Tim

    For any who seem to forget that Saddam existed and used whatever WMDs he was able to complete before Bush took office:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQBVZEmDtWU

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Good gried, I can't believe I actually have to explain this to a supposed "libertarian".


    Wow, you really buy that crap...

    Hussein tried to assassinate W's father, so W concocted lies to justify invading the country and capturing Hussein. Bush's own cabinet has made it clear that there was no stopping Bush from invading Iraq, regardless of how little evidence there was for an invasion.

    If Bush really cared about going after rogue countries and terrorists, he would have invaded Saudi Arabia and North Korea. If he really cared about protecting innocent lives by getting rid of dictators, he'd have focused on Suddan, Burma, Zimbabwe, or Iran.

    He didn't...

    It's sad that W was willing to sacrifice thousands of Americans to carry out his personal vendetta. That makes him a traitor, and he should be tried for war crimes against his own military.

    Worse yet, there's evidence (Jacques Chirac's own memoirs) that Bush told the French leader that he also invaded Iraq to satisfy biblical prophesy. So, not only is he a traitor, but he's a nut-job as well.

    I can't believe I have to explain this to...oh never mind...I can believe it...

    Btw, I'm quite sure that the families of the 5000+ soldiers who have died in Iraq don't appreciate W making a joke out of it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VD1gOhpRSU

    He single-handedly did more damage to this nation than any person in history. I wish in believed in hell, so I could hope he rots there.
  • Real Estate Investor · Santa Cruz, CA · Member since 2009 · 267 posts · 73 votes
    17y

    Tim,

    Just as in many other threads, you have completely deviated from the original question, argued numerous points that are absolutely arbitrary to anything close to a good argument, and your extremist conservative beliefs and opinions are so one-sided, it is hard to believe that you even believe your own B.S.

    Please do yourself and the rest of the BP community a favor and keep an open mind, huh?

    I'd also appreciate it if you would no longer post anything that does not pertain to the subject being discussed. There's a reason people post topics on BP, and that reason is not to steer the conversation into topics of your own choosing, many of which are politically centered on your extremist beliefs.

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Joey,
    I didn't start it down the political path. I gave you a list of leaders. I even left out presidents specifically to avoid a political discussion. Someone who attacked my list unnecessarily turned this into a political discussion. And aside from 3-4 liberals with the same tired argument, I do just fine with the "BP Community".

    You've been upset with me about this thread ever since I disagreed with your premise. That's where your angst lies and you'll learn soon after leaving the academic bubble of college that many of the premises they teach you there are simply wrong. Academia is especially generally wrong on leadership because of it's near lack of leaders. I can only think of 2 professors who had any true leadership skills. So I'll bring this back with a reiteration of my original point. There are great leaders in America's past. There are great leaders amongst us now and there always will be great leaders in America and the reason why is simple. America fosters competition amongst the individuals. Great leadership is attracted to and feeds off this.

    Tim

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    I can only think of 2 professors who had any true leadership skills.


    If that's the case, you did a poor job of due diligence when choosing an academic venue.

    There is no lack of great academic leaders in this country, and the fact that you couldn't find them or your couldn't qualify for to be taught by them should in no way indict the entire system.
  • Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    That's where your angst lies and you'll learn soon after leaving the academic bubble of college that many of the premises they teach you there are simply wrong. Academia is especially generally wrong on leadership because of it's near lack of leaders.
    Tim

    Tim, this is a really new low. Lumping all academic studies and teaching as "Wrong" or "mostly wrong"? If they are wrong, who's right?
    You are definitely knowledgeable, but you are by no means source of information since your mind is tainted by ideology and whatever doesn't fit, is automatically rendered as "wrong"
  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
    Lumping all academic studies and teaching as "Wrong" or "mostly wrong"?


    I didn't say all. You edited my quote to leave out a key follow up sentence.
  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    I can only think of 2 professors who had any true leadership skills.


    If that's the case, you did a poor job of due diligence when choosing an academic venue.

    There is no lack of great academic leaders in this country, and the fact that you couldn't find them or your couldn't qualify for to be taught by them should in no way indict the entire system.


    In all fairness, I'm going to modify this statement to say 2 professors who had any leadership skills applicable to the world outside academia.
  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:

    In all fairness, I'm going to modify this statement to say 2 professors who had any leadership skills applicable to the world outside academia.


    In that case, I won't modify my statement at all...

    You just did a poor job of due diligence when choosing an academic venue. Had you gone to a better school (i.e., one with true leaders), you probably wouldn't have felt this way...I know I surely didn't feel this way...

  • Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    17y

    Academic teaching doesn't require leadership. It require honest factual knowledge and the ability to convey that knowledge to others.

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