Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
How does Liberal and Conservative come into a conversation about climate change? The earth's climate is ALWAYS CHANGING. Not only does the earth spin on it's axis and orbit the sun, it also wobbles and wiggles, vibrates and hums. The sun is also changing, creating energy through nuclear fusion near it's core. Our universe, our galaxy, our solar system, is extremely dynamic, ever moving, ever expanding, ever changing. Nothing is stable or constant. Thus our climate is always changing as well.
The damage that man is doing to planet earth is not harming the planet nearly so much as it is harming man himself. Once man is gone from the earth, it won't take long (relatively speaking) for the earth to cleanse itself of most of the evidence that man was here.
The reason we need to take care of the earth is not for earth's sake, but for OUR SAKE.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Tom -
Once again, you've reminded me how poor the educational system is in this country and reaffirmed how uneducated talk-show hosts are dumbing down this country one listener at a time...
For someone who seems so good at cutting and pasting information from the web and presenting it as your own, I'd think you would have at least done a little bit of research on this subject...
To a typical high-school dropout, it may seem intuitive that an increase in global temperatures would mean that big snowstorms are less likely, but to anyone who had done even a modicum of research would know that a rise in sea temperatures would likely trigger more extreme weather, including the freak storms like we saw last winter and this winter. In fact, all the freak weather we've seen over the past 50 years only goes to support the idea of climate change, not reject it.
So, as usual, you probably shouldn't be getting your news and science information from high school dropouts...try putting down the sports page and go pick up a textbook...it really can't hurt...
Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
I was reading an article by the head of a climate forecasting company in which the guy claimed that global warming increases evaporation in the summer, and that results in higher precipitation in winter. That could be what we are seeing now.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Bryan Hancock:
It really isn't worth it J....some people are incapable of reform.
I'm going to disagree with you here Bryan...
For most people, ignorance is a choice, not something that is preordained and unchangeable. It's just like most people on welfare -- they are making that choice and if they choose a different way of life they can have it. They just need to make the right choices...
It's the same with ignorance...it's all about making good choices: choose to surround yourself with educated people instead of uneducated people, choose to pick up a textbook instead of the sports page, choose to take a couple continuing education classes as opposed to watching reality TV and talk-shows, etc...
Again, just like those on welfare, the first (and hardest) step for these people is to WANT to change...
Flipper · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 973 posts · 679 votes
15y
I can't disagree with the fact that the earth is getting warmer. (1 degree over the past hundred years, if I remember correctly) I do disagree that we're the cause of it. It's my understanding that we're still coming out of the last ice age. Though, a college roommate did a paper on it once that was kind of sobering. We emit an awful lot of things into the air, but we don't create anything that wasn't here in some form or another to begin with.
Real Estate Investor · SouthCentral, IA · Member since 2010 · 97 posts · 45 votes
15y
I didnt know that Liberals had enough free will or forethought to invest in real estate. Arent they supposed to just tax the people that do?? Free healthcare for the planet!!
Rehabber · Denver, CO · Member since 2010 · 79 posts · 20 votes
15y
Originally posted by Tom Cullen:
The climate fluctuates. What a startling revelation!
I know who would've thought? But... of course there has to be some "genius" explanation that only the most brilliant people can understand and everyone else is just too dumb to see it. The next name will be the Global warming/cooling/changing/ staying the same climate crisis.
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
The level of discourse is always high when Tom starts a post! I guess the east coast experiencing some cold weather is great evidence of "climate change" one way or the other. Way to raise the bar Tom! The Fox News people would be proud!
BTW...I am not a subscriber to either "camp." It just pains me to see such ridiculous starts to threads on an otherwise great forum.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Tom Cullen:
The climate fluctuates.
Yes it does. At this point in time, the climate is warming on a global scale, hence the term "global warming"...
See Bryan...like I pointed out above, if someone wants to educate themselves, it *is* possible. Tom started this thread making fun of the fact that a general warming trend was being seen across the planet, and here we are 20 posts later, and he's accepted the fact that the climate does change!
That's calling LEARNING...
Great job, Tom!
I guess this is one of the few political threads where, in the end, someone has changed their position...
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Well, now that Tom has come around, we need to focus on the others...
.
.
Originally posted by CJ L.:
Originally posted by Tom Cullen:
The climate fluctuates.
I know who would've thought? But... of course there has to be some "genius" explanation that only the most brilliant people can understand and everyone else is just too dumb to see it.
Actually, that's the way most things in the Universe are...
Take gravity for example. Many people are happy with the explanation that "what goes up must come down" and then they live their whole lives thinking they understand it. Then there are those who assume the world is a bit more complicated than that, and spend their time digging in further to *really* try to understand the processes.
Those people ultimately come to an understanding that is much greater than "what goes up must come down." And in your words, those who understand things on this level tend to be "the most brilliant people" while "everyone else is just too dumb to see it."
If you're happy with "what goes up must come down" and "the climate changes", that's great. But don't disparage the smart people who aren't satisfied with those kinds of answers.
Thanks to those types of people, you have modern medicine, modern transportation and pretty much every other technological breakthrough this world has ever seen.
Again, there is a big analogy between ignorant people and people on welfare...they both look to the rest of us to make their lives better so that they can go through life not realizing what else there is.
I think I speak for all of us when I say, "You're welcome..."
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Marc Freislinger:
I do disagree that we're the cause of it. It's my understanding that we're still coming out of the last ice age.
I think most reasonable scientists would tell you that there is far from enough evidence to conclude that we're contributing to the warming in any significant way.
There's just not a good enough understanding of how the climate works and the technology we have to collect data just isn't advanced enough to determine what (if any) level of causation is there, despite what politically motivated scientists would tell you.
The problem is, the two issues have gotten tangled up. Most scientists agree that we're warming, they just disagree about the cause. But, those ignorant of the data assume that both the warming and the cause are questionable (including the original poster here).
Scientists on both sides of the political aisle would have laughed at the original post here... :)
Though, a college roommate did a paper on it once that was kind of sobering. We emit an awful lot of things into the air, but we don't create anything that wasn't here in some form or another to begin with.
I personally don't think we're contributing to global warming, but as you say here, there are lots more great reasons why we should stop burning fossil fuels -- everything from contributing money to terrorism to destroying our ground water. If those things aren't enough to convince people to start adopting alternative energy sources, well, we deserve what we get...
Real Estate Investor · Alpharetta, GA · Member since 2010 · 415 posts · 484 votes
15y
I always find it interesting when people make claims about trends related to the Earth's weather based on data over 100 years when the Earth itself is about 5 billion years old. That's comparable to the span of a minute over a person's 100-year life.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Paul Broni:
I always find it interesting when people make claims about trends related to the Earth's weather based on data over 100 years when the Earth itself is about 5 billion years old. That's comparable to the span of a minute over a person's 100-year life.
I agree that if we only had 100 years worth of data, it would be pretty meaningless...
But, using sediment and rock samples, it's not too difficult to track large climate trends over millions and tens of millions of years, giving climate scientists a relatively well-rounded view of global climate shifts throughout history.
Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
How does Liberal and Conservative come into a conversation about climate change? The earth's climate is ALWAYS CHANGING. Not only does the earth spin on it's axis and orbit the sun, it also wobbles and wiggles, vibrates and hums. The sun is also changing, creating energy through nuclear fusion near it's core. Our universe, our galaxy, our solar system, is extremely dynamic, ever moving, ever expanding, ever changing. Nothing is stable or constant. Thus our climate is always changing as well.
The damage that man is doing to planet earth is not harming the planet nearly so much as it is harming man himself. Once man is gone from the earth, it won't take long (relatively speaking) for the earth to cleanse itself of most of the evidence that man was here.
The reason we need to take care of the earth is not for earth's sake, but for OUR SAKE.
Investor · Lenexa, KS · Member since 2010 · 215 posts · 121 votes
15y
For some odd reason this thread reminds me of the clip that keeps playing from this past season of "The Amazing Race". The girl is trying to slingshot a watermellon, puts all her wieght into this gigantic slingshot, and instead of it firing off hundreds of yards downfield, it gets caught up in the slingshot and firesbackward directly into her face.
What a good clip. Not sure why I keep thinking about that. :)
Rehabber · Denver, CO · Member since 2010 · 79 posts · 20 votes
15y
That's cute.. just like we were gonna wipe out all the trees for paper too right? Well that didn't work so 10 years later.... were causing global warming.
So since it's a "fact" to you liberals (even though your scientists admit to miscalculations) tell us what is causing the so called temp. changes, and why has the name been changed so many times?
The next name will be the Global warming/cooling/changing/ staying the same climate crisis.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by CJ L.:
So since it's a "fact" to you liberals (even though your scientists admit to miscalculations) tell us what is causing the so called temp changes...
As Mike pointed out above, it has nothing to do with liberal or conservative...scientists on both sides are pretty convinced that warming is happening, they just disagree on whether it is man-made or not (and that has nothing to do with this discussion)...
Now, as for the reason the climate changes drastically over large periods of time, the general scientific concensus is that changes in the amount of oxygen and greenhouse gases in our atmosphere leads to climate change. This is most likely what caused the ice age, thug obviously that had nothing to do with man-made processes.
As for why the name changes, that is because people ignorant of the discussions associate certain things with certain names. For example, "global warming" generally holds the connotation of "man made" even though scientists don't mix up the two concepts. Which is why they changed it to climate change, which generally doesn't have the connotation of "man made."
If people were more educated, the name changes wouldn't be necessary, but as we can see by this thread, there is a lot of ignorance out there.
Hopefully that answered your questions, and if you'd like to learn even more, I'm happy to answer more questions on the topic or point you to other references that can go even deeper. As I mentioned above, learning and knowledge are wonderful things...glad to see people coming around to that...
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
@Mike:
It is absolutely ridiculous that this is considered a political argument from my perspective too. I am glad there are still some straight shooters left in this crazy nation!