Real Estate Investor · Santa Cruz, CA · Member since 2009 · 267 posts · 73 votes
I have been noticing a trend. And the trend goes like this: the return on investment for those attending 4-year universities is decreasing substantially. For the amount you pay to attend college, it is in many cases not worth the tuition investment. With tuition prices increasing every semester at many schools, I cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Am I alone in noticing this trend? Is university education becoming obsolete, especially regarding increased income opportunities following graduation?
Just curious to hear what the BP community has to say...
Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
15y
Don't get a degree in advanced women's liberative chicken yodeling with a minor in theatrical basket weaving and expect a whole world of high-paying jobs which garner huge respect to open up to you.
On the other hand, some educations are very extremely worth it. Accounting, finance, prelaw, or any of the hard sciences (Assuming you intend to make a career out of it) are all excellent ways to spend tuition money.
On a personal level, I know far too many art majors who work retail jobs in order to starve with their 4 room-mates who also got useless, no-return degrees and work jobs that they could have gotten straight out of high school.
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
How many people do you know of that land $150k jobs after getting just an undergrad degree though? I am sure there are some, but the numbers are plentiful.
Real Estate Investor · Richmond, KY · Member since 2010 · 20 posts · 6 votes
15y
The value of a college degree really isn't in what they teach you in your classes, although classes such as economics, finance really do give you some useful information. The value is in the degree itself it opens that many more doors than someone without a degree.
Beyond that the degree won't keep you the job that is up to you and you will likely use hardly any of what you learnt in college in your actual job, but it got you in the door.
On the cost side, there are some very inexpensive public universities.
Full-Time Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
not saying the dept of education is a liar, or that the information is incorrect.....i'm pretty sure in fact, that college grads do generally make more money....however, i wouldn't trust the dept of education--who makes money off of education-- to give stats...there's a little bias there...that's just like the whole scheme of the real estate assocations convincing the world that owner occupied homes is their biggest financial investment, as jon loves to point out
Altus, OK · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 690 votes
15y
Originally posted by Bryan Hancock:
How many people do you know of that land $150k jobs after getting just an undergrad degree though? I am sure there are some, but the numbers are plentiful.
In today's econ state not many but it wasn't unheard of yesteryear and least that's what I saw as I got out of high school and my dad pressuring me to go to college.
But even so if your education pays off in the end then I think it's worth wild.
Real Estate Investor · Richmond, KY · Member since 2010 · 20 posts · 6 votes
15y
I am not arguing the point that the Dept. of Education would skew the numbers to their favor. It wouldn't be hard to find some more unbiased numbers but due to the nature of this conversation numbers that are in the ballpark will do.
I actually wrote a paper a few semesters back in my econometrics class with numbers from the BEA and the income gap is actually growing. I don't recall the exact numbers, but it brings up a good point, the jobs of now and tomorrow require a more educated workforce.
We can argue the point that college doesn't educate students for their field (which I believe that it does not). But it teaches you critical thinking and usually helps people "grow up".
With all of that being said you by no means have to have a college degree to be successful. I am the first generation in my family to attend college and I only hope to reach the financial success of my father and grandfather.
Real Estate Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2011 · 34 posts · 3 votes
15y
I have most of a history degree from a state school, and I have been quite successful in demanding environments with lots of Ivy League competition.
If I had it to do over again, I would take out whatever loans I needed to get into the best school I could and network like crazy. If i were not in an Ivy, I would pick a major that would funnel me into a reliable paycheck. The Ivy club effect can give you more flexibility on degree choice.
I am all for pluck, but give yourself every edge you can. If you're going to be an entrepreneur, great. Things that make that job easier: funding, high-skilled employees, etc. Having the degree is a good signal for those markets as well.
Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
15y
It's a personal choice. Graduated high school with a 94.7 grade point average.
Junior year my father is killed in a car accident.Whole world implodes and I have to redefine what I want out of life.My average was 97.8 but it dropped my senior year because of issues I was going through.
This was back in 1992.Graduated high school in 1993 and attended college because it was paid for. Went for 2 years making A's and B's but my heart was not in it.
Left an opened my own business and then another business and then sold off and took a few years off and entered into real estate.
Some people are hard wired to work for THE MAN all of their life.I call it being mediocre.
Sadly it's what many strive for.No matter if people own businesses or graduate from college the cream will rise to the top.
There are the slackers,the ordinaries,and the truly spectacular at what they do.
If you are going to go for a degree go all the way to a Doctorate if it is offered. That extra few years of schooling will earn you so much more money over your career.Sadly many just go for bachelor degrees which are worthless in many cases.
Almost all these applicants will have bachelor degrees.The paper won't get you the job it will be how you present and sell yourself and networking skills.
So certain fields it pays to have a degree.Most don't know what they want in college and get a Bachelor of Business degree etc. that covers many jobs.
Most of these students are saddled with MASSIVE student debt and oh by the way the student loans are relentless in recovery and cannot be discharged in a bankruptcy.The government WANTS their money.
I might go back to college someday just to graduate but I don't know.Probably years later when I retire.
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
My wife and I are both electrical engineers with advanced degrees. I wouldn't trade our degrees for any amount of money. The graduate degrees were both FREE from private schools too because our employer at the time paid for them.
There are a lot of variables that enter the equation here too....like employability, lifetime earnings, degree chosen, freedom the change careers, etc. I certainly don't regret the decision to go to school and it was well worth the money paid for us.
Houston, TX · Member since 2010 · 26 posts · 10 votes
15y
I know it's easy to say "I don't have a degree and look at me..." And yes, there are a ton of very successful people out there without a degree (my brother being one of them in the IT field). But I think if you are driven and motivated, which are both required to be successful regardless of education, why wouldn't you want to gain every possible edge you can?
I know college is expensive, but you don't have to pay $50k/yr. You can go to a public university and get out for around half that. You also don't have to borrow every last dime you spend while in college. I had several friends that would work 20-30 hours a week to help pay for everything. It took them 6 years to graduate but when they did, they only had about $10k in loans.
I graduated with a business degree and with some hefty loans (hefty to me at least). However, I would not change a thing. I got the job I have today because of connections I made while in college. I kept the job because I bust my butt and have a good work ethic. People say you can't learn work ethic and "hussle" in college, but if you go to a decent school you cannot graduate without these qualities.
I'm not saying use college as a way to "find yourself", but I do believe that you don't know as much as you'd like to think when you're 18 years old. What better way to develop into a young adult then around like-minded people that are pursuing higher education? There's something to be said for "birds of a feather flock together". If you want to be rich, hang out with wealthy people... learn from them. If you want to be educated, hang out with intelligent people. If you strive to be a RE investor, spend hours on Biggerpockets :)... you get the idea.
Point is, is that in general (these next statements are all generalizations) young adults that are in college are looking to better their lives. These are the people that will be called boss, the people that will operate businesses, the people that will have a higher quality of life. Would you rather surround yourself with these people, or skip college and try to work your way up surrounded by people that also skipped college because maybe they aren't driven like you are? Either way, you're going to have to work hard, so why not work hard WITH a degree?
I think the answer is obvious whether or not college is worth it. I'm not saying you cannot make a great living and have a wonderful life without a degree, but why limit yourself? I have never heard anyone with a degree tell me "I really wish I hadn't gone to college". You have your entire life to work... what's 4 years when you're still young in the big picture? Nothing! And, if you are financially smart while in school (work, don't party all the time, etc.) The ROI will be through the roof!!
Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
I think a college education can be well worth it. Before deciding to go though I think it is important for someone to understand what they want to be and what they can afford to do.
Education is important, but if you want to be a plumber college is not the way to go. If you want to be a teacher, a CPA, an engineer then a good college education is going to be important.
It seemed like pretty sage advice from Scott Adams, the creator of the Dilbert cartoons. He seemed to be an entrepreneur in training for a long time before making it big from the stories in the article.
Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
The BLS data provided by Justin shows that the average bachelor's degree holder makes about $800,000 more in a lifetime than a person with only a high school diploma. I think that should settle the ROI issues, even accounting for the present value of money, etc.
Regarding trends, it is true that the cost of a higher education is rising faster than inflation. But it is also true that the difference between the wages of people with degrees and ones without is increasing. The trend, I suppose, will depend to some extent on which one is rising faster relative to the other.
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
In Austin I think that a master's degree is quickly becoming a requirement just to be competitive now. The trend seems to be toward more education...not less.
I have found that the best education I have received is being in the trenches running my own businesses though. Some of the conferences have great material too...stuff you wouldn't ever find at some university. Why not do both or all of them? Get an education, go to conferences, get out and run a business....fail many times and learn from your mistakes. I like the idea in the article that 90% of the activity will end in failure. If you aren't failing forward you aren't learning and growing!
