HEALTH CARE LAW UPHELD
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
It's law, the Supreme Court held that the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) is valied under the taxing authority.
Yes, I know healthcare is one word....
However, states can opt out with the Medicaid portion. Now what?
I am 100% AGAINST the government requiring the people to purchase healthcare or face a penalty. I am also against the federal government forcing the states to provide healthcare for those that aren't covered by private insurance.
America became the great nation we were because of the free enterprise system. We are now on a course of becoming a socialist country. The working class will be taxed more and more to cover those that do not want to work, and provide for themselves. The government run healthcare system will be like every other government program, overpriced and impossible to access.
We are already paying billions of dollars in California in medical expenses for released convicts (because we can't afford to keep them in prison and 40,000 were released), sexual predators, drug addicts, alcoholics, etc. Why should the working taxpayers be required to pay more to cover those that choose not to work?
It's not even the direct penalties, etc. for the working class should they opt out of insurance. The entire system needs reformed. The liberals have expanded disability, healthcare, etc. to such extremes, that soon there will be no business left in California to create the tax base necessary to suport it. You can only tax people and business so much, and when there's more taking than giving, the country collapses, and we become Greece!
I'll stand for a free country, with personal choice, and a free enterprise system, and forego Big Brother thank you.
Believe it or not, bill was right about the drivers license. Just so happened I went to DMV today, license lapesed. There IS a new requirement to show SSN to renew DL. Has to do with a federal law passed this March. Has to do with proving "legal presence".
So I research it. There are ways around it, and I suspect it will be legally challenged. The law was passed to stop illegals from getting licenses.
Still, there is NO LEGAL REQUREMENT to have a SSN.
Okay, back to healthcare. OBAMACARE SUCKS!
It's a power/money grab, pure and simple.
Like SS, and all federal entitlement progrms, it will turn into an ever larger, ever odious program and burden on the tax payers.
The political higher ups will NOT be required to participate. They will just send their daughters/wives to Argentina to get their breast enlargement, and get their penile implants.
This is really all you need to know. The people who wrote the law wrote in their own exemption from it.
The M.D. who was posting his displeasure with OC mentioned he worked at a Veteran's Hospital.
Being a vet, I've ACTUALLY USED VA HC facilities. They suck! Unless you happen to be in the DC or other areas.
I am happy with my retired benefits through Tricare. I pay 500 a year with a 250 annual deductible. I go to any doctor in the state I want.
Limbaugh mentioned on his show in 2008 what OC was all about. Create MANDATORY program in an area that effects virtually all citizens, then dish out EXEMPTIONS/WAIVERS for political gain.
Power, political contribs, favors...etc. Not about HEALTH CARE!
Like any other political issues.....
There is no lower life form in this country than Rush Limbaugh, an entertainer that has choosen to instigate trouble and division in politices, with bald face lies for ratings and more money. He also said he would leave the country if the healthcare law was upheld by the courts, I''' be contacting him here in Missouri to offer him a free ride to the boarder......or the airport......anyone that listens to that guy.....geeeez.....!
Umm.... Yes it does. LOL That's kind of the point of an engineering license isn't it?
Don't toss your credentials under the bus just to sustain your politics. Your politics aren't worth that cost.
While I should have more say in how thick concrete should be, how many lanes to make a road, striping curves speed limits, etc, it is not my job to know the needs of where and why to place a road. There are city planners who do demographic, economic, user cost studies , etc that I do not do that are equally as important...I'm not so egotistical as to think I'm the master of transportation because I am the master of structure design.
Maybe even better is that I'm a geotechnical engineer which is a specialized branch of civil engineering. I can tell you all about the engineering properties of soil. But I can't tell you one thing about farming or crop manangement.
So tying this to healthcare, I don't buy the theory that just because a doctor has an opinion about something related to his profession we should all bow down to his opinion.
The doctor on this forum happens to own, according to his profile, 100's of multifamily units. He is VERY concerned with money. I find everything he says to be biased - mostly fear that he will have less money. Comparing healthcare from a VA hospital is a deflecting argument. I have Tricare (government health insurcance) and can use it with private doctors. It works great and is cheap. My grandpa had terrible experiences with VA doctors and facilities. Yet still, my Tricare insurance is great.....
Disagree with my politics, sure, but don't give credentials more credit than they are worth.
If Tricare is so great, why would the OC system be that much different, as to subsidizing premiums? The difference is that insurance companies are involved.
I'm eligible to go to a VA hospital, not disabled, but that will never happen!
I was never arguing what your opinion is, I'm arguing what the facts are. These aren't assumptions, they are facts. So please stop assuming this.
What fact? Where is it stated in the constitution or law that anyone has a right to food or healthcare? That is your opinion, but it is not law.
I agree these are apples and oranges. Certainly the pure wealth transfers like student loans and pell grants shouldn't be the role of the federal government. The GI bill is part of the compensation offered to enlistees in our military and I support it. The MID is a deduction on taxes paid. I don't think it's a constitutional issue, but I don't support it. Federal highways support national defense (a bit) and interstate transportation and therefore commerce. In so far as highway funding goes, I support it, though not at the levels currently funded. I'm not going to address every item listed here. They don't relate to the topic of this thread.
Bill
You state that Rush Limbaugh said he would leave the country. I have been listening to him, infrequently I admit, but never heard him say that. But I did hear many Hollywood Celebrities, Alex Baldwin, Whoopie Goldberg, etc... say they would leave the country if George W Bush was elected. He was elected and NONE of them left. So celebrities make outrageous statements all the time, it is in their nature.
But since you made a PERSONAL ATTACK on Rush Limbaugh, allow me to say that Barack Obama is the WORST president that the US has ever had. With nothing on his resume except Community Organizer and a Senator that likes to vote "present" on an "aye" or "nay" votes, he becomes president of the United States. He brags in his own book about smoking pot and snorting Cocaine, and the majority of the US electorate loves him for it. How did Bill say it, "There is no lower life form in this country." Many of us feel that way about Barack Obama.
Let me state some FACTS. Fox News is the most BALANCED news on the market, period. Rush Limbaugh is the most listened to radio personality today. (If you say that means the majority are wrong, then the majority were wrong in electing Obama too) President George W Bush did not screw up the economy, the elected Democrats in 2006 did, just check all the US Financial Records. Bill Clinton did not balance the budget, the elected Republicans in 1994 did. I hear liberals all the time claim that Clintons Tax Cuts in 1992 balanced the budget, but the truth is, the budget did not balance until 1998, 4 years after the Republicans took over Congress.
Bill, and all the rest of the Liberals here on BP, I respect your viewpoints while disagreeing with them. Differing viewpoints allow for attacking problems from different angles. But here is something for all Liberals; How come I NEVER hear a Liberal say to me, "I respect your viewpoint."? Most of the time, Liberals attack the MESSENGER and never address the message. Rush Limbaugh could say, "It's raining outside." and Liberals attack Rush, even though he just stated fact, that it was raining.
Back to Health Care, I have just one question; Who is going to pay for all this Health Care? Social Security is for a small percentage of the population, those who are retired or disabled. Medicare is for the elderly, and both of those programs are racing towards financial insolvency. Obama Care is for the entire population and any illegal immigrant. Obama Care will be insolvent within a very few years for one simple fact, there just is NOT enough money to pay for it. Consider Stockton, California. They filed BK a couple of weeks ago and did NOT pay the Health Insurance Premiums for July, for their retiree's and all the retiree's health care insurance will be CANCELED. Why? Stockton does not have the money to pay the premiums.
There will come a time when the Chinese will STOP buying US Debt. Will that be when we hit $20T in debt? $30T in debt? $50T in debt? All of us in Real Estate investing know that debt is not infinite.
I lived in the Durango, CO area for 13 years. While I was there, every Doctor in La Plata County REFUSED Medicare patients, for one simple reason. What Medicare paid was not enough to cover expenses, rent, utilities, labor, etc... So Medicare patients had to drive 60 miles to Farmington, New Mexico for care.
So forget all the political bantering and gamesmanship. While it is fun and I take it all in stride, it is not answering the question of this thread. The real issue here is HOW is the US going to pay for "HEALTH CARE FOR ALL?" If every single person in the US paid $2,000.00 a year, it would not be enough to pay for all the Health Care. If every single person in the US paid $10,000.00 a year, it would not be enough (That would be really expensive for a family of mom, dad and eight kids, $100,000 a year)
So for those who are in favor of Obama Care, the only question I have is how are we going to pay for it? This is why I say that Obama Care will follow the example set by, "The Projects."
Mike I do respect your opinions, I may think that some are ill formed but you certainly have some valid points, like paying for it all. I'm not sure, my impression is through a larger participation, cut waste and fraud (which has been done to a greater extent in the past few years under O) but questions still remain. The CBO said it would work, others say it won't and we have to admit there are political aspects of such opinions so who knows????
Many conservatives in my area feel that Rush is an embarrasment to Missourians, recently there was a big flak over his being named in the Missourian Hall of Fame in Jeff City. He has made alot of money saying stupid and outrageous things. .........anyway
I just think it's possible to fix the system, lower costs, provide decent care at some level and for people to acquire, at their expense, whatever they need if that's what they want. Tricare is a success, why can't that be done on a larger scale, it works!
I'm well aware that there was a deep hatred of Obama from day one and the agenda by many, especially in my neck of the woods. I just don't go there.....
Actually, I'd have to say that I have been an old Republican, not a Tea Party type, and gravitated to the center or it could have been that others moved so far right that I feel like I'm in the center...LOL
I like aspects of both sides, but I'm just hearing more muck/misinformation on the elephant ride.
So, that was to clear up any thought that I might be a far left socialist, I'm not. I do give Obama credit for passing something on healthcare, he got Bin Ladden and GM is on top! Lots of good things have happened.
So again, why can't Tricare be done on a larger scale? Why can't Medicare get the fraudsters out?
You're lying Bill. Rush was welcomed to Joplin last year with open arms when he went there after the tornado aftermath. I know. I was there. I know Springfield, Missouri conservatives and real estate owners (funny, none of them have heard of you but that's an aside) and none of them has spoken negatively of Rush Limbaugh, with the exception of the slut comment when wives were in earshot.
LOL, don't count on me being here too much. I just heard that liberals were trying to tell a doctor he was wrong on healthcare and had to see it for myself. Next they're probably going to try to call him the uneducated doctor type, lol.
Read carefully what I said young man, I said I KNOW conservs that do not like him and there certainly was alot of flak about this guy being named, so before you accuse me of lying understand what I'm saying. I didn't mention Joplin at all!
I do not know every landlord/apt, owners in town, it's not that small of a town. And don't really care to. In fact, I know only a few apt owners, that was not my gig and never claimed it was. Your gang I believe has some larger projects that I have never been involved with, know of them perhaps but don't care to get into any more apt deals..... maybe you should go over my profile carefully. Ever hear of Branson, Mo?
No, I don't know your family BTW. I believe you're the Tim W. that stepped on it awhile back saying I was an agent and not a broker and got my father and I mixed up with your insulting remarks. You want to go at it again? I suggest you know what you're talking about before you accuse someone of lying and that dang well includes me!
Sorry I got off topic in my own thread, we can all have opinions, but back on track.....
Tricare is successful, why can't a larger version work?
The "Don't you know who I am?!?" attitude. It goes over so well in Missouri, lol.
You know folks, another problem with this is the matter of claims. Currently when an insurance company denies a claim, you can count on the government as being a third party in the settlement of the claim. You can't count on that anymore under this. Medicare is the industry leader in denying healthcare claims and there is a reason why. They aren't subject to the same punishment as a private company. When the government rations care and you are denied coverage for a procedure, you're going to find yourself having to sue the federal government. Have fun.
You could tell me with greater authority than a nonengineer if the government is telling the truth if they say drought has no effect on soil conditions, couldn't you?
Who says it's successful? http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/02/military-tricare-costs-would-jump-in-budget-plan-022312w/ states that the enrollment fees are rising 30% next year and co-pays are doubling. You may perceive it to be successful because your not paying for it, simply sucking on the good old government tit.
Bill, thank you for saying you respect, while disagreeing, with my viewpoints. You may have been misinformed, but let me straighten you out. Fraud and mismanagement have not decreased under Obama. Estimates range from 20% to 30% of every dollar spent on Medicare/Medicaid goes to a fraudulent claim. And this is for the fraud that is DETECTED. The problem with fraud is that a really good one is NEVER detected, it appears to be a legitimate claim. Doctors, for the most part, a fairly intelligent people and know how to "work the system."
Here is am example. My wife felt really faint late last year and her family has a strong history of Diabetes. The ER did a blood test and her sugar was around 500 (normal is 80-100). But what does the Hospital and Doctors do? They order an MRI, send her to the Heart Cath Lab for a full work up, keep her in the hospital for several days, then a week later, the insert point for the Cath Lab gets extremely infected and she is hospitalized for several more days. The final solution? My wife is a Type 2 Diabetic and takes oral medication twice a day and her sugars are now normal. Something the Doctors found out 10 minutes after she entered the ER from her blood test. But the Hospital knew she had good Health Insurance and ran all these tests "just in case." I realize this is just an anecdotal story, but it proves the point. To paraphrase Shakespeare, "Fraud, by any other name, is still fraud." And any hospital or doctor running a battery of tests "just in case" is milking the system.
I saw a show on 60 Minutes, where a hospital paid twenty cents for a part used in a surgery and charged the Insurance Company over $100.00 for it. While making a profit is OK, that is fraudulent profit.
Times these scenarios by the MILLIONS and see the problem!?!
On a side note, directed at Bill. I have a huge problem with the Federal Government bailing out GM. Why didn't they bail out EVERY failing company in America. A worker at a failed retail store is every bit as important as a worker at GM. Having the Federal Government picking and choosing who succeeds and who fails eliminates fair competition in the Business World.
And, Obama DID NOT get Bin Laden, the US Navy did. Obama did not make the decision to make the attack, he took the advice from his leading Generals. Obama's knowledge of Military Tactics and Strategy is akin to my knowledge of nuclear fision, which is NIL.
What does Obama have his degree in? Oh yea, Law. And how do most of us feel about Lawyers? Lawyer joke of the day: A plane full of lawyers crashed on the way to a Legal Convention. The tragedy? There was one empty seat on the plane!
Wow! That's FOX New Universitity at its very best! Why didn't Bush give that order.........oh, maybe because is oil family was in bed with the Sudies.....who knwe!
Look, there are many that hate Obama becuause he's black, nothing he does will be right, I'm not a racist, but I am an american. I know it;s tough to swallow, but thus reall is 2012, not 1812. :) Learn to deal with it or start anorther war,
Who cares? The point of coverage has been made, produce a plan that meets the needs or our country or join the 1%, which no one on this site really is, bunch of wannaies, if you ahve more than 50 Million in asstets , maybebe you'll make it. otherwise, run the nubers......
Bill
I don't hate Obama because he is black, I hate Obama's policies because he thinks the government is the answer to society's problems. I do not understand why, if someone hates Obama, liberals jump up and down waving the "RACE" flag? If that is the best counter argument a liberal can give, s/he has an extremely weak argument. That is all I will say about the race issue.
It is my belief that Health Care is NOT a right, it is a purchasable service, available to anyone who wants it and can pay for it. Other's may believe that Health Care is a right, and again, my only question is, "How is it going to be paid for?" In theory, Health Care for all is some type of Nirvana, but in the real world, it is not feasible. Bill, you even posted that you did not know it is going to be paid for. It is very simple, if the government cannot afford it, the government should not do it.
Well, not trying to open any wounds here, and great points have been made, but
How do we pay for it Mike M?
My real take on this is, that something needs to be done, what was done may not be the best approach, at least it was something.
I think that unless you pay for your own care, at some point someone needs to say that's enough and I think that should be your doctor, not an insurance company or the government. I see the problem of some doctor milking the situation too.
As mentioned above, you can sue the ins. co. and good luck doing so with the feds, but really, either one is tuff to do. I'm guessing that most can't sue the ins. co. until after someone dies, at that point you might get an attorney to go after them, maybe. It's all about financial interests, it is probably cheaper flipping the switch and defending a law suit for the ins. co.
So how would that be resolved? What about the good things in the Act, kids staying on parent's policies, no more pre-existing conditions and the doughnut hole being closed? What would another plan or modification look like?
And, wonder if we can get past the politics now, past any race issues or who was behind it and focus on solutions? Hope so, just to kick it around....