HEALTH CARE LAW UPHELD
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
HEALTH CARE LAW UPHELD
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Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
14yI am 100% AGAINST the government requiring the people to purchase healthcare or face a penalty. I am also against the federal government forcing the states to provide healthcare for those that aren't covered by private insurance.
America became the great nation we were because of the free enterprise system. We are now on a course of becoming a socialist country. The working class will be taxed more and more to cover those that do not want to work, and provide for themselves. The government run healthcare system will be like every other government program, overpriced and impossible to access.
We are already paying billions of dollars in California in medical expenses for released convicts (because we can't afford to keep them in prison and 40,000 were released), sexual predators, drug addicts, alcoholics, etc. Why should the working taxpayers be required to pay more to cover those that choose not to work?
It's not even the direct penalties, etc. for the working class should they opt out of insurance. The entire system needs reformed. The liberals have expanded disability, healthcare, etc. to such extremes, that soon there will be no business left in California to create the tax base necessary to suport it. You can only tax people and business so much, and when there's more taking than giving, the country collapses, and we become Greece!
I'll stand for a free country, with personal choice, and a free enterprise system, and forego Big Brother thank you.
271 Replies
- Vancouver, WA · Member since 2012 · 12 posts · 4 votes14y
I am not really convinced it will lower healthcare costs. Other countries that have this type of healthcare system have caps on the maximum someone can sue healthcare providers for. If I remember right, Canadas cap is 50,000. They also have forced pharmeceutical companies to offer drugs at a low price. I think high pharmeceutical prices and uncapped lawsuits have a much higher impact on insurance prices than nationalized healthcare. Obamacare does not address these issues. Because of that I think healthcare costs will rise not fall.
- Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes14y
Loc R. First off, those that really NEED healthcare, legitimately should get it. (old people, kids, the disabled, etc.) There are many other solutions to reform the system and bring down costs so that most people should be able to afford health insurance.
People come from all over the world to America for healthcare, why? Because we have the best healthcare system in the world. We need competition from insurance companies (allowing only 1 or 2 companies in a state is ridiculous) In regards to pharmaceuticals, it cost hundreds of millions of dollars to bring a drug to market. The FDA could cut that by allowing some drugs and treatments to get to market faster. In addition, we could quit expecting the American taxpayers to underwrite the manufacturing and distribution of drugs to third world countries.
Allow more medical schools, and nursing programs to operate, which in turn puts more doctors and nurses in the market and gives more access to medical care and more competitive prices. Fewer and fewer people are going into the programs due to the health care law.
Have doctors/hospitals etc. post their prices for procedures. Same anesthesia and others providers.
Quit giving heroin addicts liver transplants at $1 million dollar each! but denying a child care for something legitimate.
I'm a contractor and those are my ideas. Imagine if they actually worked with doctors, nurses, researchers, pharmaceutical and insurance companies etc. in working towards the goal of offering better care, for less money.
The point is, more people could be served, and served more efficiently than the what will happen with government run healthcare.. in my opinion.
- Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2008 · 122 posts · 46 votes14y
Originally posted by Charles Perkins:
Makes me curious what will eventually happen to Health Savings Accounts.
Good point. I actually really like Health Savings Accounts as it provides some incentive for individuals to take ownership of their own health. Who knows how the chips will fall in 2014.
- Real Estate Developer · Los , Angeles · Member since 2010 · 53 posts · 6 votes14y
How will this effect our industry? I believe there is an additional 3% tax on all investment property within the bill to help pay for the new costs.
Also, most real estate agents can't afford to pay for their own health insurance. Will those agents now be forced to pay the 'tax' *cough*penalty*cough*? I know plenty of new agents who are going to have a hell of a time coming up with the money to pay for health insurance...
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes14y
The Act does not change state medicaid, the new provisions are seen as an additional program that will be funded and be at the option of the states to adopt, if they don't adopt it, they don't get the additional money, but the feds can not take away funding of the old program, so they would be turning down more money to apply to their needs, not likely. Cali is on target to save 2 billion on their program in 2014, guess that will help those that don't work as well as those that do.
Since Roberts went to the other side, the Dems will have no rally crys about persidential appointments being a key issue to the court. OTH, I'm already hearing that Romney and other Reps are saying the only way to get rid of the Act now is elect their man. Romney is saying he'll get rid of it on day one (lol) as no president can repeal any law, I believe it requires a two thrids majority (not sure, had that in highschool) to repeal congressional acts so don't count on that. I'm pretty sure the Act will be with us, just as social security is, which went through similar debates.
I do know health premiums are sky high for contractors, especially roofers if they could even get it, Karen might chime in on their premium increases over the past few years. An example of the new Act effecting people like contractors is that they can now ban together and form a large group and shop for coverage across state lines and thereby reducing the exposure of loss and getting lower premiums, especially if they had pre-existing conditions.
We could form a RE Investor Association and apply for group coverage as well!
I'm keeping mine and staying with my doctor, an option provided for. I think my premium has doubled in 6 years, I'm healthy and not elderly or at 65 for SS, so not much longer with that stuff and I'll be getting supplemental policies for SS medicare. One thing is for sure, you will all get older unless you check out and you'll likely need a doctor before you leave this world.
- Real Estate Developer · Los , Angeles · Member since 2010 · 53 posts · 6 votes14y
Originally posted by Loc R.:
Billy W.I would imagine the realtors could probably get insurance through their professional association.
Lets take your average new agent from Marcus&Milichap selling commercial. I may be wrong, but I dont think M&M offers any form of benefits nor are you part of a professional association.
So, will those new agents have to fork over the $5K - $15K for health insurance each year, even though they aren't making a dime in income?
- Note Investor · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2009 · 849 posts · 544 votes14y
For those who otherwise couldn't get insurance coverage at all, it would be a welcome alternative.
I'm not sure how agents go about becoming agents - is it something they jump into full-time? Or do they do other things while trying to make it as an full-time agent?
- Vancouver, WA · Member since 2012 · 12 posts · 4 votes14y
I agree that something needed to be done to make healthcare affordable. I am just not convinced that Obamacare is the right answer. Capping lawsuits and lowering the cost of pharmeseuticals would do more to make healthcare affordable than just mandating that everyone has it. One lowers hard costs for insurance companies while the other just increases customer base and liabilities proportionately. You have to have a certain amount of goverment to allow capitalism to thrive, but too much government and regulation will slow an economy down. I am worried that this will not only bog our economy down further with bureaucratic red tape but the cost will go up and not down because this plan does not reduce insurance companies hard costs.
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes14y
Originally posted by Billy W.:
Originally posted by Loc R.:
Billy W.I would imagine the realtors could probably get insurance through their professional association.
Lets take your average new agent from Marcus&Milichap selling commercial. I may be wrong, but I dont think M&M offers any form of benefits nor are you part of a professional association.
So, will those new agents have to fork over the $5K - $15K for health insurance each year, even though they aren't making a dime in income?
Billy, check with the Board of Realtors, locally and if not, nationally, there were policies for Realtors, the premiums wasn't competitive for me at that time. You don't need to go through the brokerage.
- Real Estate Developer · Los , Angeles · Member since 2010 · 53 posts · 6 votes14y
Someone on here can correct me if I am wrong, however I know that I do not receive any form of assistance and I work well over full time hours, as do my colleagues.
The majority of new commercial agents will not make a dime in income while they are working full time. Most will eventually quit and move on, for others they will take a year ++ before they bring income in.
Almost none of the agents I know have health insurance.
So, if anyone who is more educated on this subject could give me some insight into what this holds for commercial real estate agents, I would greatly appreciate it. If agents *have to* pay for their own health insurance, it will kill any chance of them holding on with their savings and becoming successful in this industry. Most dont have the $5-$15K to fork over for insurance.
So, anyone know what us agents will have to do?
@Bill ... thanks I will check them out. However, I cannot afford even $2K a year right now out of my savings for Health Insurance. Do you know when this part of the law takes effect?
- Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes14y
The medicaid portion of the bill, where they can't penalize states by holding back funding, will be up to the States to implement, or not. However; should the states decide not to do that, then, the care of those patients is pushed back to Congress to deal with, and guess who pays for that? The taxpayers!
As for California, we are the poster child for why socialism DOESN'T work. Every City and County in the state is in dire straits. Billions of dollars are being paid through the State Disability System, to ex cons, drug addicts, alcoholics, pedophiles, and those that have used up their unemployment benefits; and then apply to the easy to qualify for Disability program.
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes14y
Billy, you're right, most agents probably don't have coverage. They will need to see if they can get on a family policy through a spouse if they work....if no spouse, hmmm, yes, you have a good point. That will be the same with any industry, but there are also income limitations to be required to get your own policy, if you qualify by income you can get in on the medcaid side. I believe the income and premium structure is in phases so that by the time one is paying their own way, they should be able to afford it. That's why they really called it the "Affordable Care Act".
- Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2011 · 475 posts · 211 votes14y
As a physician I'n glad I'm of an age that I can get out in a few years and have real estate income. This is an unmitigated disaster for our country. Socialization of the medical system is the first step that Lenin did when he took over because he understood it needed to be socialized first and then the rest would follow. You're fooling yourself if you think it will be otherwise here. I have worked in a government controlled medical system (the V.A. ) as have a lot of physicians in their training and have seen the lousy care delivered there. We're headed for a terrible outcome in medical delivery and the ruination of the best medical system in the world. Sorry to be a downer ,but, this is real and I'm glad I won't be a part of it.
- Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes14y
Originally posted by Dennis Tierney:
Socialization of the medical system is the first step that Lenin did when he took over...Actually, that's not factual. First, he socialized banking and education...only then did he socialize medicine. So, if your argument is that this country is moving towards socialism/marxism because we're adopting ideologies of Lenin, then you'll have to explain why you haven't been arguing against socialized education and banking for the past 40 years (including TARP from the previous administration)...or at least accept that this is just one more step in a reform that has been going on for much of recent history in this country.
- Investor · Garland, TX · Member since 2010 · 99 posts · 92 votes14y
I am young (37) and I have heard my entire life there will be rules to follow no matter what. We would not need any regualtions in our great country if we didn't have this 5 letter word call "GREED". Greed is killing us in this country. I am all about right and wrong and true justice. Common sense need to applied to all regulatiions. We would not be upset about regulations if common sense was applied when making the laws.
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes14y
I had to stop reading halfway through. Too much stuff.
I will give my opinion. A big problem is illegals living here in the United States and using our resources (health care) and not paying for it. We are the ones paying for it.The countries they come from they cannot just go to an Emergency room etc. and not pay the bill.
The other issue is Medicare and Medicaid. My mom about 2 to 3 years ago had a knee replacement by one of the best knee surgeons in the United States.She was one of the last Medicare patients they accepted.
The surgeon was telling us that Medicare wanted to stipulate WHAT PARTS they wanted them using in surgery or they wouldn't pay.
Medicare wanted to start using cheap crap from Chine where they get a discount and put inferior parts in with high failure rates.The surgeon dropped Medicare and said they didn't want to put in a bad part and get sued or blamed later for revisions.
I agree completely and do not blame them.The best doctors being forced to use crap from Medicare or they won't pay is awful.It's about the money and not about the quality of care.
I took my mother-in-law in for a hospital appointment the other day.All the doctors and receptionist I talked to did not want the Health Care bill passed.
The Government oversight already is too much and the forms too cumbersome.Regardless of political party affiliation more government control and forms increases cost,time,and tax pay burden.
If our Government believes so much in the health care provided under this bill they THEY should lose the health care packages they have and move to this.
I pay cash when I go in and ask for a discount.I do not have health insurance by choice.I do not want to fill out ten thousand forms and be told my only plan provider is 1 hour away from me.
I want to choose who I go to and what kind of quality care I receive.Paying cash I can do that.
If anyone believes businesses will pick up the tab for extra health Insurance cost I have some Ice Igloos to sell you in Hawaii.If a business owner makes 100k profit a year they will not now make 80k a year and take from their family to prop up employees.
They will trim the fat.I can see many more people using virtual assistants so that there is no paying of these costs.
Just like Obama did this credit card bill that capped fees.All they did was raise rates for the good borrowers.The credit card companies sure didn't take the hit.
I shouldn't have to pay for the governments short comings.It should come out of their pay for passing the laws and acts that led to these problems.
All the government does is kick the can down the road and borrow from one place to prop up another.I don't believe this law will do anything except create more government bloat.
- Clarksville, TN · Member since 2012 · 29 posts · 7 votes14y
Simply put, if the government can force you to buy insurance, there is nothing else they can't force you to buy.
How to fix the problem? Congress could have passed a law to regulate interstate commerce by immediately allowing us to buy health insurance across state lines (like everything else we can buy across state lines sans alcohol). That would have increased competition and options. People would no longer be restricted to buying healthcare plans that included hair plants (CT anyone?), but instead bought what they wanted or what they could afford. More options = good. More government regulations = bad
Congress could also have granted people that buy their own insurance the same tax deductions that corporations get. Right now, you can only deduct if your health insurance costs over 7.5% of your AGI, and only the part above that. It makes it very expensive to buy your own health care (self employed real estate people, anyone?) Let me buy my own options from any of 50 different states, and let me deduct the cost, and I can certainly find better deals.
Congress can't run their own cafeteria or bank without losing money, so how can they possibly regulate the health care or health insurance industry?
The fact that no one can be excluded or charged higher prices because they will cost more to the insurance companies, means that ALL prices will rise to handle the cost. It just redistributes to cost to everyone. Is that fair? Some say yes, some say no. You can probably guess my opinion. I may work out everyday other day and not drink or smoke, but my next door neighbor who does both is going to get subsidized by me.
There is a 3.8% surtax on income property sales for people that make over $200,000 ($250,000 for married couples), if your capital gains exceeds $250,000 (or $500,000 for couples). I don't know if carry forward depreciation shields this, but I figure in this forum, there is a higher likelihood of people qualifying than in the general public.
The thing is, we don't know the true cost yet, because a) not all the regulations are written yet, b) they deliberately set it up so that taxes were to be collected for 10 years but benefits not paid for first 4 years and CBO can only score 10 years into the future, and c) there no way to predict what companies will drop health care plans and force us to buy government insurance.
Whether you think we need government controlled health care of not, I go back to my principle point: if its constitutional for the government to force us to buy insurance because we are US citizens, then they can also require us to buy broccoli, hybrid cars, more than 25% foreign goods, and work specified hours. "Do ______ or pay the IRS a $xyz fine," cause that is what the SCOTUS just told us. Doesn't sound like freedom to me.
- Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2011 · 475 posts · 211 votes14y
I just did a same day angioplasty on a patient that came in this am and wanted it done today. He had a 95 % narrowing in a vessel that I put 2 stents into and now it's 0% and he'll go home tommorrow. That will not happen in 10-15 yrs under Obamacare. He will have to take a number and he'll get it 4-6 months later as happens in Great Britian and Canada. There will be 2 systems of health care here, the gov't one and a private one that only the rich can access because they will pay cash. You'd beter make sure you have plenty of money in the future so your family can get good private pay medical care.
- Residential Real Estate Agent · Hattiesburg, MS · Member since 2011 · 475 posts · 141 votes14y
I just can't see where Medicaid is going to get the funding to pay for the millions of new beneficiaries who will now be eligible..
Same thing for the low income vouchers.. Somebody has got to pay for such a considerable increase in cost...
Especially considering how Medicaid is already such a problem....
Ironically my health insurance was up for renewal today......
My premiums have climbed 50% in the past 2 years...
My wife and I are 25... Need catastrophic coverage in case of unforseen medical emergency...
Just under $4,000 per year for absolutely nothing..
Just seems like absolute robbery to be so expensive for someone our age, non smoker, non drinker, not overweight, with a $10,000 deductible....
Financially we are thinking about dropping coverage, and self insuring... Better enjoy that right for the next 2 years.....
- Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes14y
Some of the increases will be paid for by an increase of 3.8% in the capital gains rate paid by some tax payers. There are many other tax provisions attached to this Act. Though I don't believe that the taxes collected will fully fund the costs each year.
- Residential Real Estate Agent · Costa Mesa, CA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 380 votes14y
Quick Q:
If I have health insurance now, as an individual (not through my company), does that mean I lose it? Does it mean my premiums will go up? If so... how much?
- Residential Real Estate Agent · Hattiesburg, MS · Member since 2011 · 475 posts · 141 votes14y
Originally posted by Charles Perkins:
Some of the increases will be paid for by an increase of 3.8% in the capital gains rate paid by some tax payers. There are many other tax provisions attached to this Act. Though I don't believe that the taxes collected will fully fund the costs each year.Cheers to liquidating some property before the end of 2012....
Cap gains rates were fun while it lasted lol...
- Residential Real Estate Agent · Hattiesburg, MS · Member since 2011 · 475 posts · 141 votes14y
Originally posted by Jake Kucheck:
Quick Q:If I have health insurance now, as an individual (not through my company), does that mean I lose it? Does it mean my premiums will go up? If so... how much?
Honestly I don't think anybody can answer that question... Like Pelosi Said "In order to know what's in the bill you have to pass it first" something to that effect iirc.
You should be able to keep your plan.. IIRC employees with over 50 employees will be required to offer health insurance. I"m not sure if you will be obligated to purchase insurance through them, or if they just have to provide it as a option.
From my understanding everyone will be required to carry some basic form of health insurance... I'm not sure what the minimum requirements are at this time.
Low income individuals will benefit from the law. Millions of Americans will now be eligible for medicaid..
Other mid/low income individuals will receive vouchers to help off set the cost of having health insurance.
Health care cost are still projected to keep rising, so I would expect your premiums to keep rising..
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