SCAM Six Figure Land Flipper Kris Thomas

SCAM Six Figure Land Flipper Kris Thomas

Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes

Paid $30,000 for their "Six Figure Land Flipper" 6 month course to start mid-June. The business committed to provide to me a closing of 3 land deals, membership portal with everything you need from start to finish, unlimited transactional funding available, first 8,000 mailers paid (print & postage), daily live office hours, unlimited deal reviews, weekly live deal reviews, recruited & fully trained sales team (first 90 days free), discounted sales team after 90 days, recruited & fully trained operations team ready to go, discounted operations team, professional buying & selling websites + monthly hosting, professional buying & selling logos created, trello advanced templates & training, datatree research subscription, access to private facebook group. I was told this could be done in "a few hours per week". In reality this has turned out to be more than full time, I have not closed one deal and I have been in the program 6 months. I have mailed DOUBLE their required minimum number of mailers per week. On average, I have attended double to triple the required minimum of one daily live office hour per week. I am currently in debt a total of about $75,000 and they don't tell you that you should really have funds for the cost of the program and at LEAST 9-12 months because it could be that long for a deal to be closed. I didn't find this out until I started talking to others in the program and more experienced land flippers who didn't close their first deal for 9-12 months. They need to tell people this is a full time job and create a truly "plug and play" system like they claim that only requires a few hours of work per week. They don't even use a real CRM they want us doing everything manually via excel. For $30,000 and what they claim you will get this is complete scam. They have removed me from the private fb group, blocked me from all social media, and will not allow me into the daily live office hours because I started telling people about this. I have not been refunded. They also require you to split 50/50 your first 3 deals!!!  I will continue to share this so no one else gets scammed and left in debt with no deal closings.

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Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
2y
Quote from @William F.:
Quote from @Kate Brown:

@Kris Thomas

you should see a professional about the lying issue you have 


This is crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Impossible to render a “judgement” without a skilled person to “cross examine” each “witness”.  I don’t have any information or knowledge about the program in question or the “guru” behind it.

I will tell you some things in general. After 40 + years in real estate, I have seen the guru industry grow from a few guys teaching others about their own success (by way of $99 seminars, $249 for “books and tapes” ) to $40,000 full mentoring programs with enrollees being mentored by “operations” personnel (who may no experience whatsoever) with marketing programs put together by one of 5 firms located in Las Vegas or Salt Lake City.  It’s what franchising industry would have looked like if they’d hadn’t chosen to self regulate and get rid of the “bad actors”. 
When someone pays $99 for a weekend seminar and the “business/investment opportunity” doesn’t work out for them they just go about their business with little concern.  When someone spends $40,000 on a mentorship program, and an additional $50,000 in operating costs, and it doesn’t work out for them they are a lot more cognizant of how the program PERHAPS wasn’t as portrayed.

The biggest problems, imo, are two. One, people should not be encouraged to borrow personally to pay for the program. This already puts them behind the 8 ball - failure rate just increased 10 fold.
Second is OVER PROMISING OF SUCCESS, and it’s cousin, UNDERSTATEMENT OF RISK, EFFORT AND CHANCE OF FAILURE.

There’s two ways to look at the situation. One, did the services provider fulfill their obligations under the contract. Any service business run by someone with half a brain that’s not a “take the money and run” scam is going to at least provide enough services  be able to make a case that they did.  But number two is more telling; did the mentoring company have reason to believe that a majority of the people it sold its mentoring service to AND performed the suggested activities would most likely fail. It’s my belief that most do know that.  AND if they stated that upfront to potential enrollees, and those people still wanted to “give it a go”, I may not have a problem with it. But I just don’t like people who sell “the American dream” knowing full well they will being leaving people unemployed and $50,000 in debt.  Leaves a “bad taste” in my mouth. 
Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
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  • Lender · Tampa, FL · Member since 2020 · 202 posts · 116 votes
    2y

    @Kate Brown that Is truly disappointing and sad.  Thanks for spreading the word.

  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y

    Absolutely! All these “coaches” who do this should be exposed. I’ve created a page on FB I plan to use to expose these scams, terrible. 

  • Robin SimonBusiness Member
    Lender · Austin, TX · Member since 2022 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    2y

    Nobody can ever promise closed deals (unless they are the ones doing the selling or will sell if needed).  Nobody should ever sign up for anything that has these sort of "guarantees" or "promises" unless fully aware of this reality

  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y

    They promise to work with you past 6 months or until 3 deals are closed (which you split 50/50) whichever is earlier as long as you do 1,000 mailers per week and attend at least 1 live office hour per week but the 6 months is implied to close 3 deals based on their marketing and conversations. The guarantee is that they will work with you until you recoup at least your initial investment (if you do the minimum required), but it makes no sense to keep digging a hole you can't get out of.  I have seen someone just a few weeks ago leave the course over $50k in debt because she couldn't keep mailing and then she didn't meet the "guarantee" because she could not keep mailing 1,000 mailers per week.  I *think* she was in the course 9 months I want to say.  I have been in it 6 and I know she started before me quite a bit.  During conversations they set the tone that it is achievable to do 3 in 6 months, they don't actually come out and promise 3 deals in 6 months.  However, based on the loans they are telling people to get and the course time frame - that is heavily implied as doable.  I did over double the minimum and don't even have a closed deal yet 6 months in.  Asking around from people who did the course/more experienced investors it took $100k and 9-12 months.  I am also working it basically full time most weeks and nothing yet.

  • Rental Property Investor · south carolina and michigan · Member since 2023 · 348 posts · 226 votes
    2y

    if its too good to be true it probably is. i never do any of these programs. anyone that sets a timeline on real-estate success is not genuine, there are so many circumstances for each individual investor that determine that trajectory.

    the only person making a good investment in 3-6 mos is the guys taking your checks.

  • Investor · SD · Member since 2023 · 35 posts · 33 votes
    2y
    This is sad.  Thank you for posting.  I like to pick up land ed programs.  I have quite a few.  I feel that if I get a single "gold nugget" out of the course, it pays for itself.  I will not be adding this one to my arsenal.

    If you are looking for a good program that is reasonably priced & really helps, I would recommend the land riches blueprint.  I have seen Jonathon around for a number of years & his information is great.  He also breaks down the time & expense between hiring someone & doing it yourself.
  • Member since 2024 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    2y

    Ms. Brown also fails to disclose here that she had twelve (12) deals under contract during the Agreement totaling over $600K in potential profit and the smear campaign began when her coaching agreement was due to expire. Now she is trying to get me to pay her to take down the posts.

    It should also be noted that on the Facebook page, she is apparently still flipping properties under "USA Land." She’s made all these accusations, which I don’t deem meritorious and I filed a response which anyone can access here or read below:

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1JLyaqsu_mgRB87Dxr7AX...

    I don’t know what else to say. Here are all the things in the contract and here are all the things we did for her:

    What Six Figure Land Flipper Agreed To Perform Under The Agreement, And

    Six Figure Land Flipper Performance Of Its Obligations Under That Contract.

    1. Coaching Services. The Coach agrees to perform and provide the following services in accordance with the terms and conditions set forth in this agreement:

    • Membership Portal with Everything You Need From Start to Finish

    • Unlimited Transactional Funding Available

    • First 8,000 Mailers Paid (Print & Postage)

    • Daily Live Office Hours

    • Unlimited Deal Reviews

    • Weekly Live Deal Reviews

    • Recruited & Fully Trained Sales Team (First 90 Days Free)

    • Discounted Sales Team After 90 Days

    • Recruited & Fully Trained Operations Team Ready to Go

    • Discounted Operations Team

    • Professional Buying & Selling Websites + Monthly Hosting

    • Professional Buying & Selling Logos Created

    • Trello Advanced Templates & Training

    • DataTree Research Subscription

    • Access to Private Facebook Group

    Six Figure Land Flipper performed each and everyone of the required services. Specifically:

    I. Ms. Brown was supplied with the membership portal with access to the full suite of

    products and services the agreement provides for. Thus, the first obligation was met

    under the Agreement. Ms., Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that the portal was not provided. Nor can she.

    2. The Coach did provide access to unlimited transactional funding for any deal. Thus,

    the second obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that funding was unavailable. Nor can she.

    3. The Coach provided the first 8,000 mailers. Thus, the third obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms., Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that the first 8,000 mailers was not provided. Nor can she.

    4. The Coach provided daily live office hours. The Coach has office hours between 1-2pm ET every day. Thus, the fourth obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her complaint complains of weekend issues and holiday issues. This is an unreasonable complaint regarding businesses. Ms. Brown did not give more than 24 hours to respond to a communication that was sent on the Sunday evening of the Thanksgiving holiday before she started her smear campaign the next morning. Other than the discreet weekend and holiday issues, she acknowledges that daily office hours were kept.

    5. The Coach did provide unlimited deal reviews. Thus, the fifth obligation was met under the Agreement. In fact. Ms. Brown submitted over 20 reviews. In addition, Ms. Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that the Coach limited deal reviews. Nor can she.

    6. The Coach provided weekly live deal reviews. Thus, the sixth obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that the Coach limited deal reviews. In fact, she specifically acknowledges it.

    7. Recruited and fully trained Sales Team (First 90 days) was provided. Thus, the sixth

    obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that this was provided to her. What it states is she was unhappy with the sales team, not that it did not exist.

    8. Discounted Sales Team after 90 days. The Coach had and still has the sales team available at a discounted rate after the first 90 days. Except for a two-week period, Ms. Brown failed to avail herself of the service electing, instead to forego payment for the services provided.

    Therefore, the role and labor of any sales team became a commitment of Ms. Brown and not an "outsourced" service. Ms. Brown's assumption of this role is one of the root causes of her statement that it "could not be done in a few hours per week". Had she availed herself of these services, the time demands for the program would have greatly diminished for her.

    The sole monetary issue in this is a charge for skip traces. It is a small issue in context that certainly does not rise to the program being a "scam".

    9. Recruited And Fully Trained Operations Team Ready To Go. The Coach had and still

    has the Fully Trained Operations Team Ready to Go. This service is an additional cost as referenced in the following Service "Discounted Operations Team". Ms. Brown failed to avail herself of the service electing, instead, to forego payment for the services provided. Therefore, the role and labor of any Operations Team became a commitment of Ms. Brown and not an "outsourced" service. Ms. Brown's assumption of this role is one of the root causes of her statement that it "could not be done in a few hours per week".

    1O. Discounted Operations Team. The Coach had and still has the Fully Trained Operations Team Ready to Go. This service is an additional cost as referenced in the following Service "Discounted Operations Team". Ms. Brown failed to avail herself of the service electing, instead, to forego payment for the services provided. Therefore, the role and labor of any Operations Team became a commitment of Ms. Brown and not an "outsourced" service. Ms. Brown's assumption of this role is one of the root causes of her statement that it "could not be done in a few hours per week".

    11. Professional Buying & Selling Web sites + Monthly Hosting was provided under the

    Agreement and Ms. Brown had edit power over the site at the time of its creation. Thus, the eleventh obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that this was provided to her. Nor can she. What her issue was, is that she was not happy with the website. This is different from not providing the website.

    12. Professional Buying & SeIling Logos Created was provided under the Agreement. Thus, the twelfth obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that this was provided to her. Nor can she.

    13. Trello Advanced Templates & Training was provided under the Agreement. Thus, the thirteenth obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her allegations, did not like the product, but actually admits that it exists and was provided.

    14. DataTree Research Subscription was provided under the Agreement. Thus, the

    fourteenth obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that this was provided to her. Nor can she.

    15. Access to Private Facebook Group was provided under the Agreement. Thus, the

    fourteenth obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that this was provided to her. Nor can she. Access for Ms. Brown was terminated upon her initiation of the smear campaign and lodging her accusations that the system and its participants are a "scam". Based upon her actions she will not be granted any additional access to the group.

    Thus, under the Agreement, the Coach has fully performed each and every one of the services provided.

  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y

    @Kris Thomas oh I just noticed you said I’m trying to get you to pay me to take down the posts. 😂 I’ve never asked you to pay me to take down the posts. You have sent me BRIBES since December and had some Cali attorney call to threaten me. If you recall and as I have email proof showing I told you I WILL NOT GIVE UP MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH for your money. I’ve asked for you to refund me for the course because you kicked me out of it. No worries - my new Florida attorney will be reaching out soon. We’ll go from there. But if you plan to spew more lies here I will continue to call you out.

  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y

    @Kris Thomas

    you should see a professional about the lying issue you have 

  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y

    @Kris Thomas and everyone else. Here are receipts. I never tried to get her to pay me anything to remove my fact based, evidence supported review of her course. She’s been trying to bribe me for 2 months. I’ve told her NO. I’ve told her attorney NO. I am more than willing to discuss anything they feel is not supported in evidence as I stated over 2 months ago. I have not received anything from anyone with specifics outlining anything specific I wrote that they feel is not supported. AGAIN, please email me with specifics you feel are not evidence based and I’m more than happy to review. I have no intention of writing anything false either accidentally or purposely. I have researched everything I have wrote. As such, kindly send an email outlining anything you feel is not correct.

  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y

    @Kris Thomas is lying about the $600k and literally keeps spewing that everywhere. When things were going downhill they went into my Trello and my google drive and copied all my business data out (including data that was for another business not landflipping). So… #1 stole my business documents. #2 this $600k I keep seeing @Kris Thomas quoting everywhere is a lie. She’s including things that were not updated either for newly negotiated pricing (where seller negotiated much higher than our original offer but she’s using my original lower offer to bulk up to this $600k). She’s using “potential profit” from deals that were actually dead but not moved to “dead” section yet. And her and her sidekicks told me “you have a diamond” or something like that because a couple were zoned commercial and they told me I could get way more so they are including this much higher list price but I’ve had to lower everything by a couple hundred thousand and they haven’t even sold. I thought it was weird because they are in rural areas so I don’t really see them being “zoned commercial” as a much greater selling point when there is so much land available and it’s turning out they really are only worth the residential comps so those are going to expire with only my costs and no sales. Then there is another “commercial” one that had “potential” of $175k profit about that she is using in her calculations- well somehow we got to the point everything was done- DD, photos, drone, marketing listings etc. realtor contacts me - come to find out - this isn’t even the RIGHT parcel! I’m not going to go into detail here as to what exactly happened bc I don’t want to help her improve her process but you can message me privately if interested and happy to tell you. So, let’s just estimate and do the math $600k potential as Kris keeps spewing -$175 from the one deal her team (main selling point of her course are her “trained teams”) messed up we are at $425 - $200k roughly I’ve decreased sales prices we are at $225k - about $150 estimate in dead deals she included (just estimating I didn’t go confirm this) we are at $75k - $50k in mailers, subscriptions etc we are at $25k -$30k I paid for her course I’m NEGATIVE $5,000 STILL and that doesn’t include her “50/50 split”.

  • Investor · SD · Member since 2023 · 35 posts · 33 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kate Brown:

    @Kris Thomas

    you should see a professional about the lying issue you have 


    This is crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @William F.:
    Quote from @Kate Brown:

    @Kris Thomas

    you should see a professional about the lying issue you have 


    This is crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Impossible to render a “judgement” without a skilled person to “cross examine” each “witness”.  I don’t have any information or knowledge about the program in question or the “guru” behind it.

    I will tell you some things in general. After 40 + years in real estate, I have seen the guru industry grow from a few guys teaching others about their own success (by way of $99 seminars, $249 for “books and tapes” ) to $40,000 full mentoring programs with enrollees being mentored by “operations” personnel (who may no experience whatsoever) with marketing programs put together by one of 5 firms located in Las Vegas or Salt Lake City.  It’s what franchising industry would have looked like if they’d hadn’t chosen to self regulate and get rid of the “bad actors”. 
    When someone pays $99 for a weekend seminar and the “business/investment opportunity” doesn’t work out for them they just go about their business with little concern.  When someone spends $40,000 on a mentorship program, and an additional $50,000 in operating costs, and it doesn’t work out for them they are a lot more cognizant of how the program PERHAPS wasn’t as portrayed.

    The biggest problems, imo, are two. One, people should not be encouraged to borrow personally to pay for the program. This already puts them behind the 8 ball - failure rate just increased 10 fold.
    Second is OVER PROMISING OF SUCCESS, and it’s cousin, UNDERSTATEMENT OF RISK, EFFORT AND CHANCE OF FAILURE.

    There’s two ways to look at the situation. One, did the services provider fulfill their obligations under the contract. Any service business run by someone with half a brain that’s not a “take the money and run” scam is going to at least provide enough services  be able to make a case that they did.  But number two is more telling; did the mentoring company have reason to believe that a majority of the people it sold its mentoring service to AND performed the suggested activities would most likely fail. It’s my belief that most do know that.  AND if they stated that upfront to potential enrollees, and those people still wanted to “give it a go”, I may not have a problem with it. But I just don’t like people who sell “the American dream” knowing full well they will being leaving people unemployed and $50,000 in debt.  Leaves a “bad taste” in my mouth. 
    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Don Konipol:
    Quote from @William F.:
    Quote from @Kate Brown:

    @Kris Thomas

    you should see a professional about the lying issue you have 


    This is crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Impossible to render a “judgement” without a skilled person to “cross examine” each “witness”.  I don’t have any information or knowledge about the program in question or the “guru” behind it.

    I will tell you some things in general. After 40 + years in real estate, I have seen the guru industry grow from a few guys teaching others about their own success (by way of $99 seminars, $249 for “books and tapes” ) to $40,000 full mentoring programs with enrollees being mentored by “operations” personnel (who may no experience whatsoever) with marketing programs put together by one of 5 firms located in Las Vegas or Salt Lake City.  It’s what franchising industry would have looked like if they’d hadn’t chosen to self regulate and get rid of the “bad actors”. 
    When someone pays $99 for a weekend seminar and the “business/investment opportunity” doesn’t work out for them they just go about their business with little concern.  When someone spends $40,000 on a mentorship program, and an additional $50,000 in operating costs, and it doesn’t work out for them they are a lot more cognizant of how the program PERHAPS wasn’t as portrayed.

    The biggest problems, imo, are two. One, people should not be encouraged to borrow personally to pay for the program. This already puts them behind the 8 ball - failure rate just increased 10 fold.
    Second is OVER PROMISING OF SUCCESS, and it’s cousin, UNDERSTATEMENT OF RISK, EFFORT AND CHANCE OF FAILURE.

    There’s two ways to look at the situation. One, did the services provider fulfill their obligations under the contract. Any service business run by someone with half a brain that’s not a “take the money and run” scam is going to at least provide enough services  be able to make a case that they did.  But number two is more telling; did the mentoring company have reason to believe that a majority of the people it sold its mentoring service to AND performed the suggested activities would most likely fail. It’s my belief that most do know that.  AND if they stated that upfront to potential enrollees, and those people still wanted to “give it a go”, I may not have a problem with it. But I just don’t like people who sell “the American dream” knowing full well they will being leaving people unemployed and $50,000 in debt.  Leaves a “bad taste” in my mouth. 

     What is worse, going $100k in debt from college and getting a degree or spending $50k on a training program taught by a guru?

    7e investments53 Reviews
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kate Brown:

    You may want to post this under "Reviews and Feedback."

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2020 · 461 posts · 305 votes
    2y

    A smart man told me "instead of paying someone $30k to teach you, go take action and if you lose that $30k in the process of a few deals, you have learned more than GURU can ever teach you"

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