Fraud - Kris Thomas Land Flipping 101 at it again

Fraud - Kris Thomas Land Flipping 101 at it again

Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes

Update - Kris Thomas has now really crossed lines here. I was a student in the course and upon realizing their promises were not fulfilled and they were breaching their contract I requested to renegotiate. When my amendment was ignored after its expiration after 4 business days, I filed a dispute with my financial institution to recoup my course fees. Kris Thomas and Jessie Griffin, owners of land flipping 101 have some ridiculous terms and conditions listed on one of their websites they are claiming I am bound to. I’ve never seen these, was never directed to them, never agreed to them. I was sent invoices via PayPal to pay for the course which listed terms and conditions and then I was provided a contract which I agreed to. Their website terms & conditions include giving them the ability to kick someone out of the course without refund for “being difficult to work with” 😂 are you serious? That’s literally theft of $30,000 from me and that is completely illegal. You need to have had me aware and agree to these terms and conditions. Listing them on a random website on the internet and not in our contract or invoice with other terms and conditions doesn’t mean I’m bound to them. It’s sickening how much these people lie to scam people out of money!!! 

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Joe S.Pro Member
Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y

Sounds like you got an education just not the kind you was looking for. 😨

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y

    @Kate Brown

    Have you considered getting an attorney and suing them?

    Contract terms are based on what you signed not what is on a website

    What does your written agreement state ?

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  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y
  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y

    I posted screen shots. The 2 pages that are clearly the contract are what I agreed to. The other dozen are screen shots of their “terms and conditions” on the website. I had no idea these existed, I was never directed to review them, and I certainly never agreed to them. In addition, I was sent invoices via PayPal to pay for the course I never purchased anything from their website, not to mention, if you read through the terms and conditions there are many unlawful items. They can write whatever they want, it doesn’t mean the law will uphold that if it violates laws. You can’t have someone paying $30k for a course and kick them out without refund based on “being difficult”. 

  • Joe S.Pro Member
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y

    Sounds like you got an education just not the kind you was looking for. 😨

  • Jose JacobPro Member
    Investor · 11040 · Member since 2019 · 188 posts · 111 votes
    2y

    WOW...  $30K for a course ?   Thats a loooooot of money 

  • Rental Property Investor · Somewhere over the Rainbow · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    30k!? 

    Absolutely wild to me that people pay that for a course. How long does it take to realize that's where these "gurus" make their money - they are marketers and maybe small investors on the side 

    I spoke with one on the phone - I am curious and like to hear although I would never spend more than maybe 2k on a course. This guy anyway touted being a multi millionaire, getting 24 doors in a couple years etc etc. Come to find out his wife's dad had a career in real estate, his friend works at a firm as a private lender (that's how he got started), the houses were 50k houses and half of them were trailers...His personal house, while large was in the middle of nowhere...You can see the focus shifted from real estate investing to social media marketing. Why? Because that's where the $ is made. 

    No thanks

  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y

    Exactly why I am disputing the charges because they breached their contract. Had it really been plug and play as they tout, sure no problem. But they’re submitting excerpts from their terms and conditions to PayPal claiming I agreed to them. I was never even aware they had those on their website and I never made a purchase from their website. She’s a lying scammer. Kris thomas and Jessie Griffin. The fact they list all this on their website and try to claim we are bound by it? Half the stuff on there is not even legal. $30,000 and I might be “difficult” and they can kick me out and keep my money? LOL!! I think not. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y

    Oh $30k isn’t even all. You have to split 50/50 the first 3 deals OR you can choose to pay $100k upfront. She had the gall to tell PayPal I still owe her “$70,003” !!!!!! When I haven’t even closed a deal yet and she kicked me out of all aspects of the course 6 weeks ago because I started asking for proof of her $925,000 she claims she made last year in the group meetings. She literally kicked me out of a zoom while I was talking so I couldn’t continue pressuring for proof she is as successful as she says. Yet to see the proof. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y

    @Account Closed thank you! Good information. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kate Brown:

    @Account Closed thank you! Good information. 

    Wow not sure what they could have sold you that made you think that their information was worth 100k and or splits of profits.. I mean I fund land flippers throughout the US for some splits but I dont charge them up front fee and I provide all the money to buy the land ..  Of course they are very good at what they do.. And I think they learned mainly from the land geek guys or Jack Bosch those programs are worth the couple grand they charge. Any of these deals thats a 5 figure buy in and a split you have to think twice about. Real estate in any form simply is not that complicated and you would spend less just paying an attorney by the hour to fill in the holes for you or  a really good RE broker.

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kate Brown:

    Update - Kris Thomas has now really crossed lines here. I was a student in the course and upon realizing their promises were not fulfilled and they were breaching their contract I requested to renegotiate. When my amendment was ignored after its expiration after 4 business days, I filed a dispute with my financial institution to recoup my course fees. Kris Thomas and Jessie Griffin, owners of land flipping 101 have some ridiculous terms and conditions listed on one of their websites they are claiming I am bound to. I’ve never seen these, was never directed to them, never agreed to them. I was sent invoices via PayPal to pay for the course which listed terms and conditions and then I was provided a contract which I agreed to. Their website terms & conditions include giving them the ability to kick someone out of the course without refund for “being difficult to work with” 😂 are you serious? That’s literally theft of $30,000 from me and that is completely illegal. You need to have had me aware and agree to these terms and conditions. Listing them on a random website on the internet and not in our contract or invoice with other terms and conditions doesn’t mean I’m bound to them. It’s sickening how much these people lie to scam people out of money!!! 


     Reviewing the contract and ignoring what the website says, the question a court will determine is did they provide the services they said they would and did you provide the services you said? That is what a court will ask. They will ask if you attended the calls and sent the mailers? 

    In any contract, that is the simplest way for someone to keep money. (Sidenote: I am not sure why people would execute a contract and pay someone for a service that requires you to be active in that service where they could stop providing the service). 

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  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y

    @Chris Seveney yes I made sure to uphold my end to a T and also did about double the minimum. They breached theirs in many ways and I have it outlined in great detail. I never saw the terms and conditions on their website because we had a contract that never mentioned those. I certainly can’t be held to terms and conditions I was never made aware of. I paid via invoices sent over not even purchased through the website. Nonetheless, they offer a guarantee and I can’t see how it’s legal that they take away all services, websites, online portal when I haven’t even been refunded (it’s just being disputed) and claim they have a right to do that. My attorney said no judge would agree with that especially since I had no idea these T&C even existed. They clearly are keeping them out of the contract but on their website to be sneaky and try to apply them when they see fit but you have to have signed off on agreeing to them per contract law. 

  • Member since 2023 · 158 posts · 96 votes
    2y

    I would get a second lawyer's opinion.

  • Member since 2024 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    2y

    Ms. Brown also fails to disclose here that she had twelve (12) deals under contract during the Agreement totaling over $600K in potential profit and the smear campaign began when her coaching agreement was due to expire. Now she is trying to get me to pay her to take down the posts.

    It should also be noted that on the Facebook page, she is apparently still flipping properties under "USA Land." She’s made all these accusations, which I don’t deem meritorious and I filed a response which anyone can access here or read below: 

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1JLyaqsu_mgRB87Dxr7AX...

    I don’t know what else to say. Here are all the things in the contract and here are all the things we did for her:

    What Six Figure Land Flipper Agreed To Perform Under The Agreement, And

    Six Figure Land Flipper Performance Of Its Obligations Under That Contract.

    1. Coaching Services. The Coach agrees to perform and provide the following services in accordance with the terms and conditions set forth in this agreement:

    • Membership Portal with Everything You Need From Start to Finish

    • Unlimited Transactional Funding Available

    • First 8,000 Mailers Paid (Print & Postage)

    • Daily Live Office Hours

    • Unlimited Deal Reviews

    • Weekly Live Deal Reviews

    • Recruited & Fully Trained Sales Team (First 90 Days Free)

    • Discounted Sales Team After 90 Days

    • Recruited & Fully Trained Operations Team Ready to Go

    • Discounted Operations Team

    • Professional Buying & Selling Websites + Monthly Hosting

    • Professional Buying & Selling Logos Created

    • Trello Advanced Templates & Training

    • DataTree Research Subscription

    • Access to Private Facebook Group

    Six Figure Land Flipper performed each and everyone of the required services. Specifically:

    I. Ms. Brown was supplied with the membership portal with access to the full suite of

    products and services the agreement provides for. Thus, the first obligation was met

    under the Agreement. Ms., Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that the portal was not provided. Nor can she.

    2. The Coach did provide access to unlimited transactional funding for any deal. Thus,

    the second obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that funding was unavailable. Nor can she.

    3. The Coach provided the first 8,000 mailers. Thus, the third obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms., Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that the first 8,000 mailers was not provided. Nor can she.

    4. The Coach provided daily live office hours. The Coach has office hours between 1-2pm ET every day. Thus, the fourth obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her complaint complains of weekend issues and holiday issues. This is an unreasonable complaint regarding businesses. Ms. Brown did not give more than 24 hours to respond to a communication that was sent on the Sunday evening of the Thanksgiving holiday before she started her smear campaign the next morning. Other than the discreet weekend and holiday issues, she acknowledges that daily office hours were kept.

    5. The Coach did provide unlimited deal reviews. Thus, the fifth obligation was met under the Agreement. In fact. Ms. Brown submitted over 20 reviews. In addition, Ms. Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that the Coach limited deal reviews. Nor can she.

    6. The Coach provided weekly live deal reviews. Thus, the sixth obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that the Coach limited deal reviews. In fact, she specifically acknowledges it.

    7. Recruited and fully trained Sales Team (First 90 days) was provided. Thus, the sixth

    obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that this was provided to her. What it states is she was unhappy with the sales team, not that it did not exist.

    8. Discounted Sales Team after 90 days. The Coach had and still has the sales team available at a discounted rate after the first 90 days. Except for a two-week period, Ms. Brown failed to avail herself of the service electing, instead to forego payment for the services provided.

    Therefore, the role and labor of any sales team became a commitment of Ms. Brown and not an "outsourced" service. Ms. Brown's assumption of this role is one of the root causes of her statement that it "could not be done in a few hours per week". Had she availed herself of these services, the time demands for the program would have greatly diminished for her.

    The sole monetary issue in this is a charge for skip traces. It is a small issue in context that certainly does not rise to the program being a "scam".

    9. Recruited And Fully Trained Operations Team Ready To Go. The Coach had and still

    has the Fully Trained Operations Team Ready to Go. This service is an additional cost as referenced in the following Service "Discounted Operations Team". Ms. Brown failed to avail herself of the service electing, instead, to forego payment for the services provided. Therefore, the role and labor of any Operations Team became a commitment of Ms. Brown and not an "outsourced" service. Ms. Brown's assumption of this role is one of the root causes of her statement that it "could not be done in a few hours per week".

    1O. Discounted Operations Team. The Coach had and still has the Fully Trained Operations Team Ready to Go. This service is an additional cost as referenced in the following Service "Discounted Operations Team". Ms. Brown failed to avail herself of the service electing, instead, to forego payment for the services provided. Therefore, the role and labor of any Operations Team became a commitment of Ms. Brown and not an "outsourced" service. Ms. Brown's assumption of this role is one of the root causes of her statement that it "could not be done in a few hours per week".

    11. Professional Buying & Selling Web sites + Monthly Hosting was provided under the

    Agreement and Ms. Brown had edit power over the site at the time of its creation. Thus, the eleventh obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that this was provided to her. Nor can she. What her issue was, is that she was not happy with the website. This is different from not providing the website.

    12. Professional Buying & SeIling Logos Created was provided under the Agreement. Thus, the twelfth obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that this was provided to her. Nor can she.

    13. Trello Advanced Templates & Training was provided under the Agreement. Thus, the thirteenth obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her allegations, did not like the product, but actually admits that it exists and was provided.

    14. DataTree Research Subscription was provided under the Agreement. Thus, the

    fourteenth obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that this was provided to her. Nor can she.

    15. Access to Private Facebook Group was provided under the Agreement. Thus, the

    fourteenth obligation was met under the Agreement. Ms. Brown in her complaint does not identify any allegation that refutes that this was provided to her. Nor can she. Access for Ms. Brown was terminated upon her initiation of the smear campaign and lodging her accusations that the system and its participants are a "scam". Based upon her actions she will not be granted any additional access to the group.

    Thus, under the Agreement, the Coach has fully performed each and every one of the services provided.

  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y

    @Kris Thomas once again you are lying! You keep saying "$600k" in deals. You're including deals that were not updated for the renegotiated HIGHER price with seller, deals that were dead that were not moved to dead area yet and ridiculous priced properties that I've had to bring down by over $200k and haven't even sold! But since you want to keep this going let's talk more about this program you have. You have VA's doing due diligence and I followed your program. You had them list RV available and I lost a whole deal bc it turns out it wasn't. I lost another whole deal bc they literally did due diligence for the wrong parcel. Yet another deal because Kirt said to go for it and I got it under contract way too high and I can't sell it. Yet another contract that is landlocked that Angie told me to get under contract I can't sell for dirt cheap! So STOP LYING AND SAYING I HAVE $600k in the pipeline because you are a liar and a fraud and you don't know anything outside of the few states you've done business in! I've had SO MANY issues in the states I'm selling in. You're a liar no matter how you slice it and I have the proof to back it all up that's why you're so upset!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kate Brown:

    @Kris Thomas once again you are lying! You keep saying "$600k" in deals. You're including deals that were not updated for the renegotiated HIGHER price with seller, deals that were dead that were not moved to dead area yet and ridiculous priced properties that I've had to bring down by over $200k and haven't even sold! But since you want to keep this going let's talk more about this program you have. You have VA's doing due diligence and I followed your program. You had them list RV available and I lost a whole deal bc it turns out it wasn't. I lost another whole deal bc they literally did due diligence for the wrong parcel. Yet another deal because Kirt said to go for it and I got it under contract way too high and I can't sell it. Yet another contract that is landlocked that Angie told me to get under contract I can't sell for dirt cheap! So STOP LYING AND SAYING I HAVE $600k in the pipeline because you are a liar and a fraud and you don't know anything outside of the few states you've done business in! I've had SO MANY issues in the states I'm selling in. You're a liar no matter how you slice it and I have the proof to back it all up that's why you're so upset!


    I fund land flippers in my day job.. And I started in the land business in 75 and my dad started in 65 its a fun bizz.. in our day the land was bought generally at tax sales.. its only in the last 20 years that these marketing techniques and the how to folks started educating the mass's.. What Kate describes is basic Due diligence one oh one before U close. and if Kate is relying on her mentor or their VAs to do her due diligence I can tell you that is not the way to go about it.. One has to do those yourself.. My folks I fund do a great job at DD themselves their VA's would never do the DD and then they bring it to me to fund and I check it out myself given my literally 50 years and going on 7000 parcels I have bought sold or funded.. So I do the double check. Even with all that thats why you have title insurance for land lock situations etc.  I have no clue if this course is worth whatever but the land business is not super  easy and it does take a special discipline.
  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y

    @Jay Hinrichs agreed and I asked their person who trains Kurt and I believe in the main discussion what exactly should I be double checking for - one would imagine they've seen things come up in land. I typically would veer away from claiming its uses but I followed along as they stated to do and the protocol was their VA's did due diligence. I did as they trained. Half my deals fell apart because of their shotty training and the other half I've cut substantially from what they claimed I could list at and still haven't sold. She's so full of it to say I have $600k in potential deals. But again, that checks out with her lies.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kate Brown:

    @Jay Hinrichs agreed and I asked their person who trains Kurt and I believe in the main discussion what exactly should I be double checking for - one would imagine they've seen things come up in land. I typically would veer away from claiming its uses but I followed along as they stated to do and the protocol was their VA's did due diligence. I did as they trained. Half my deals fell apart because of their shotty training and the other half I've cut substantially from what they claimed I could list at and still haven't sold. She's so full of it to say I have $600k in potential deals. But again, that checks out with her lies.


    having a VA  or someone off shore especially perform DD on any real estate in the US is foolish to the extreme at least to trust it.  with maybe the exception of a parcel that is clearly served by city Sewer Water and have power and Tele / internet to the lot lines.. and you have double checked the hook up or Systems development charges and if they have capacity.. keep in mind many parcels in subdivisions that were basically built as recreational subdivisions decades ago.. ( think GLEN GARY GLEN ROSS and for sure watch that Movie is exactly how the industry was in those days) the original infrastructure was allowed to be built to maybe serve 20% of the development that was legal and now you have moratoriums and assessments etc etc.. U have large developments that require perc and septic with many lots simply wont perc but were allowed to be platted..  Other areas were your relying on Wells that are very expensive and or you pay 15k for a dry hole.. etc etc. there is basic due diligence that needs to be done and relying on someone else to do that for you is frankly foolish.
  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y

    @Jay Hinrichs oh totally agree! Learned my lesson now. That was a big part of their course was “plug and play” into their “systems” but I’ve now realized I need to either only do the DD myself or hire someone that is really well versed and in the US. @Kris Thomas and her “systems” are a joke. It’s a setup for failure but she still gets her $30k and 50/50 of first 3 deals (if anyone actually closes any). I was in the course 5 months before she kicked me out and I recall seeing one person close one. There may have been one other but I’m not sure because she wouldn’t answer my direct inquiries into how many have closed anything in their 6 months. I kept asking this because it seemed odd to me there were ballpark idk 15 give or take people in the course and I wasn’t seeing anyone closing anything. 🚩 🚩 🚩 All it did was cost me money in marketing, the course, mailers, etc just to lock up deals that wouldn’t sell and that the due diligence was shotty at best. I asked several times about verifying due diligence etc and it was never highlighted as something that has brought up any major issues for anyone and they say they have professional and trained staff LOL. And that “Kris trained them herself”. After realizing she’s only been in the business a couple years - the total disaster of training of these people makes sense. I definitely have a lot to learn. Most paramount was - I can’t trust trust @Kris Thomas

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kate Brown:

    @Jay Hinrichs oh totally agree! Learned my lesson now. That was a big part of their course was “plug and play” into their “systems” but I’ve now realized I need to either only do the DD myself or hire someone that is really well versed and in the US. @Kris Thomas and her “systems” are a joke. It’s a setup for failure but she still gets her $30k and 50/50 of first 3 deals (if anyone actually closes any). I was in the course 5 months before she kicked me out and I recall seeing one person close one. There may have been one other but I’m not sure because she wouldn’t answer my direct inquiries into how many have closed anything in their 6 months. I kept asking this because it seemed odd to me there were ballpark idk 15 give or take people in the course and I wasn’t seeing anyone closing anything. 🚩 🚩 🚩 All it did was cost me money in marketing, the course, mailers, etc just to lock up deals that wouldn’t sell and that the due diligence was shotty at best. I asked several times about verifying due diligence etc and it was never highlighted as something that has brought up any major issues for anyone and they say they have professional and trained staff LOL. And that “Kris trained them herself”. After realizing she’s only been in the business a couple years - the total disaster of training of these people makes sense. I definitely have a lot to learn. Most paramount was - I can’t trust trust @Kris Thomas


    let me ask you this for clarification.. is the preferred method to tie up property and then flip the contract or double close thereby not  using any of your own money or very little and making the Delta.. If so that can work in very specific red hot markets.. however experience has dictated to me over the decades that land can take a long time to sell .. many times has to be sold on contract to move it.. or if its cash you have to have the lowest price parcel of any similar ones on the market to move it timely for cash.. I would never bother with thinking you can tie up dirt and flip contracts like house wholesalers the end buyer pool is just way to small unless like i said you are selling for substantially under anything else for the same parcel. So they never sell your contract runs out you wasted marketing money time and sometimes EM deposits etc..  the only way in my mind and thats why I am in business is we CLOSE everything and we market what we own.  marketing times can be 60 days ( quick) to one year or more. So to really make 600k in profit you need millions in cash and holding power.
  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y

    @Jay Hinrichs yes they teach us to double close. Exactly @Kris Thomas is lying about the $600k and literally keeps spewing that everywhere. When things were going downhill they went into my Trello and my google drive and copied all my business data out (including data that was for another business not landflipping). So… #1 stole my business documents. #2 this $600k I keep seeing @Kris Thomas quoting everywhere is a lie. She’s including things that were not updated either for newly negotiated pricing (where seller negotiated much higher than our original offer but she’s using my original lower offer to bulk up to this $600k). She’s using “potential profit” from deals that were actually dead but not moved to “dead” section yet. And her and her sidekicks told me “you have a diamond” or something like that because a couple were zoned commercial and they told me I could get way more so they are including this much higher list price but I’ve had to lower everything by a couple hundred thousand and they haven’t even sold. I thought it was weird because they are in rural areas so I don’t really see them being “zoned commercial” as a much greater selling point when there is so much land available and it’s turning out they really are only worth the residential comps so those are going to expire with only my costs and no sales. Then there is another “commercial” one that had “potential” of $175k profit about that she is using in her calculations- well somehow we got to the point everything was done- DD, photos, drone, marketing listings etc. realtor contacts me - come to find out - this isn’t even the RIGHT parcel! I’m not going to go into detail here as to what exactly happened bc I don’t want to help her improve her process but you can message me privately if interested and happy to tell you. So, let’s just estimate and do the math $600k potential as Kris keeps spewing -$175 from the one deal her team messed up we are at $425 - $200k roughly I’ve decreased sales prices we are at $225k - about $150 estimate in dead deals she included (just estimating I didn’t go confirm this) we are at $75k - $50k in mailers, subscriptions etc we are at $25k -$30k I paid for her course I’m NEGATIVE $5,000 STILL and that doesn’t include her “50/50 split”. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kate Brown:

    @Jay Hinrichs yes they teach us to double close. Exactly @Kris Thomas is lying about the $600k and literally keeps spewing that everywhere. When things were going downhill they went into my Trello and my google drive and copied all my business data out (including data that was for another business not landflipping). So… #1 stole my business documents. #2 this $600k I keep seeing @Kris Thomas quoting everywhere is a lie. She’s including things that were not updated either for newly negotiated pricing (where seller negotiated much higher than our original offer but she’s using my original lower offer to bulk up to this $600k). She’s using “potential profit” from deals that were actually dead but not moved to “dead” section yet. And her and her sidekicks told me “you have a diamond” or something like that because a couple were zoned commercial and they told me I could get way more so they are including this much higher list price but I’ve had to lower everything by a couple hundred thousand and they haven’t even sold. I thought it was weird because they are in rural areas so I don’t really see them being “zoned commercial” as a much greater selling point when there is so much land available and it’s turning out they really are only worth the residential comps so those are going to expire with only my costs and no sales. Then there is another “commercial” one that had “potential” of $175k profit about that she is using in her calculations- well somehow we got to the point everything was done- DD, photos, drone, marketing listings etc. realtor contacts me - come to find out - this isn’t even the RIGHT parcel! I’m not going to go into detail here as to what exactly happened bc I don’t want to help her improve her process but you can message me privately if interested and happy to tell you. So, let’s just estimate and do the math $600k potential as Kris keeps spewing -$175 from the one deal her team messed up we are at $425 - $200k roughly I’ve decreased sales prices we are at $225k - about $150 estimate in dead deals she included (just estimating I didn’t go confirm this) we are at $75k - $50k in mailers, subscriptions etc we are at $25k -$30k I paid for her course I’m NEGATIVE $5,000 STILL and that doesn’t include her “50/50 split”. 

    Ok  well you simply did not know what you  did not know and believed these folks. Keep in mind the land does not change from the days its platted and someone owns it.. UTLS can change path of progress zonings etc.  what i see in the land flipping courses is really just each of them regurgitating the same information there is only so much you can talk about when it comes to land.. you buy low you sell high  easy concept..

    The major changes is how we gather information or how we contact sellers.. what has not changed at least very little is how we resell.  Wholesaling land, houses etc is a very tough unless you have a substantial buyers book ( this for beat up houses) your marketing time is cut down to what your original contract dictates. And land there just is not the same amount of buyers as beat up rehab houses full stop..

    So for trainers to bring in VA s and other more modern marketing techniques I get that and they will work but there is no profit until you resell. And whats missing here is it can take a long time to resell land unless you have that ONE parcel that has value and you have it way under market to attract that very small buying pool who will cut you a check for the parcel. Trying to wholesale while it can work its like I said very tough to do and your going to have a ton of deals fall out because of the inherent marketing times for dirt.

    And when your talking about commercial property its even worse.. you will not sell it unless your basically giving it away UNTIL you find a user.. and buyers of commercial are far more sophisticated than buyers of a rural parcel looking to build a cabin or a builder looking to build on infill in a city.

    In northern CA we bought 72 acres of which consisted of 14 parcels of record. 4 of them 5 acres each were zoned industrial this was a small rural county.. we sold the 9 that were for resi purposes in the first few years. We actually sold one of the 5 acres however it had a 20 thousand sq ft Butler metal building and we sold that to someone in the Wine business actually for Champagne Ridling machines he had invented. The other 3 parcels never sold for industrial in over 25 years of owning them and 2 of them ended up as a County park  baseball field and the other is still vacant 40 years later..  this is just an example  commercial and industrial zoned in any rural area can take decades to sell full stop.

    While those look good on paper getting them to the finish line pretty tough. And if it is close in and ready to go your owners are going to know it and the chance of you tying it up and flipping it is remote to the extreme.

    the play in the land bizz is residential use or larger acreages for those than want hunting or quad riding or other pursuits.. there has to be a realistic market for these.  And as stated to successfully flip them you need to have all the comps around it selling for or listed for substantially more than your going to market and sell for.. that way you snag the one buyer that is out there that can stroke a check.. And you have to be able to actually buy this stuff. doing this all as a wholesale en devour is simply fools gold ..

    I think I stated my Dad was in the land business in the 60s I started in the mid 70s and we have bought and sold thousands of parcels over the years every one of them though we owned wholesaling this stuff was never a thought and will never work unless your in a major metro area snag smokin deals that you can flip to a builder because there is an acute shortage of buildable lots.

  • Real Estate Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 14 votes
    2y

    @Jay Hinrichs yea the fact they were promoting commercial as a gold nugget I thought was strange because I know commercial can take forever to sell. Then if you have someone wanting to buy it - how many months/years are they going to need from their end to make sure it meets their needs because they’ll probably have many departments this purchase needs to be approved through. I understand more now and that’s why I’m not happy with the sales tactics and lies they fed me and failure to answer my questions with HARD NUMBERS about how many people in the course sold anything and how much. I asked many times. It’s more and more clear everyday how much they lied about and now they come here try to say I’m failing to disclose I had $600k in the pipeline - which is another lie. Many people are in debt from this course and didn’t make any money but if Kris Thomas and Jessie Griffin were transparent about the risk and truth about the course many of us would have not taken the course. Which I’m assuming is why they don’t tell us - because they want our money. But $30,000 upfront is not short money for most. You have to be transparent ESPECIALLY when you’re taking this much money from people. Then they want 50/50 first 3 deals. The course being 6 months implies 3 deals are possible in that time frame yet I’ve asked time and again - has anyone done 3? 2? Even 1? And they refuse to answer me. One can only deduce that NO ONE has closed a deal in their first 6 months from their refusal to answer me. I estimated my costs off 6 months thinking I would at least close one deal in that time frame but likely 3 because I was doing 2-3x what they required. I didn’t even close 1 in the 6 months.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Kate Brown:

    @Jay Hinrichs yea the fact they were promoting commercial as a gold nugget I thought was strange because I know commercial can take forever to sell. Then if you have someone wanting to buy it - how many months/years are they going to need from their end to make sure it meets their needs because they’ll probably have many departments this purchase needs to be approved through. I understand more now and that’s why I’m not happy with the sales tactics and lies they fed me and failure to answer my questions with HARD NUMBERS about how many people in the course sold anything and how much. I asked many times. It’s more and more clear everyday how much they lied about and now they come here try to say I’m failing to disclose I had $600k in the pipeline - which is another lie. Many people are in debt from this course and didn’t make any money but if Kris Thomas and Jessie Griffin were transparent about the risk and truth about the course many of us would have not taken the course. Which I’m assuming is why they don’t tell us - because they want our money. But $30,000 upfront is not short money for most. You have to be transparent ESPECIALLY when you’re taking this much money from people. Then they want 50/50 first 3 deals. The course being 6 months implies 3 deals are possible in that time frame yet I’ve asked time and again - has anyone done 3? 2? Even 1? And they refuse to answer me. One can only deduce that NO ONE has closed a deal in their first 6 months from their refusal to answer me. I estimated my costs off 6 months thinking I would at least close one deal in that time frame but likely 3 because I was doing 2-3x what they required. I didn’t even close 1 in the 6 months.


    FYI you can buy a guy like Jack Bosch or land Geek etc course for a few grand they will rehash the same things  and thats what that information is worth.. you create the information once sell it thousands of times thats their business.  Wholesaling land is not viable day one unless as I stated your finding infill parcels in very hot building markets with acute shortage of buildable lots.. And these markets do exist U just need to find them I know many of them as I have bought lots and built in them.

    wholesaling no matter what it is   is by far the toughest thing to do in real estate. And very few succeed at it unless you have substantial monetary backing to really attack the marketing get yourself a GREAT buyers rep who can actually close and understand how to maneuver bad titles etc etc.. I fund a ton of stuff in the mid west ( rehab houses ) for my clients and a lot of them come from wholesalers .. So I see the allure of it  NO money out of pocket make 100S of thousands and because its go good you only have split the first 3 with me LOL.. that's just crazy anyone would go for that.. but i get it they are very good at what they do.
  • Member since 2024 · 1 post · 0 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Kate Brown:

    @Account Closed thank you! Good information. 

    Hey Jay! Just joined so I could reply to you. I currently flip land with my own money. I’m looking for lenders or a partner or two to fund more deals for me. I would love to connect  I’m going to try and send you a message on here so we can connect. 

    Wow not sure what they could have sold you that made you think that their information was worth 100k and or splits of profits.. I mean I fund land flippers throughout the US for some splits but I dont charge them up front fee and I provide all the money to buy the land ..  Of course they are very good at what they do.. And I think they learned mainly from the land geek guys or Jack Bosch those programs are worth the couple grand they charge. Any of these deals thats a 5 figure buy in and a split you have to think twice about. Real estate in any form simply is not that complicated and you would spend less just paying an attorney by the hour to fill in the holes for you or  a really good RE broker.


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