If you ever have questions about paint...I'm your guy!

Rehabbing & House Flipping
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If you ever have questions about paint...I'm your guy!

Dan Ward
Real Estate Investor · Cabot, AR · Member since 2014 · 70 posts · 38 votes

I spent many years as an industrial/architectural paint sales rep. I feel like I could answer and have probably dealt with most issues you encounter so please feel free to shoot me a message if I can ever help you out! 

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Michaela G.
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
9y

@Andy Luick , thanks for mansplaining to me about landlording.

FYI .....I'm aware of your business and how you run it.....

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/48/topics/145758-deal-gone-bad-need-advice-please

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  • Dan Ward
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Cabot, AR · Member since 2014 · 70 posts · 38 votes
    11y

    @Fred Ramos

    Its crazy how much damage smoking in a home can do! I have seen contractors have to rip out sheetrock just because the tannin yellow stains from nicotine continued to bleed through. You have done one of the few options you can, apply a oil based primer....I would always go with Kiltz because I'm pretty sure two coats on Kiltz oil base could kill cancer! As far as the grout in the shower, you don't have many options. One option you can try but it may not work the best, I'd have to see the project to give a better call....would be to scrape the grout as much as you can...then apply a grout/concrete stain which can be found at a local hardware or paint store...then apply a concrete sealer on top of the dried stain. A second option that I recommend you do NOT do, but it would get the stains out....would be a VERY diluted mix of water and muratic acid. The acid brings all of the minerals to the surface in the grout and would remove the stain, its just so risky dealing with the proper ratio of water to acid and could do more harm than good if you didn't clean up the area properly. Last but not least would be to use the good ol' "Cessna White" aircraft epoxy. It has been a long time secret in the world of bathroom remodelers. Its generally a two part epoxy, usually self leveling, and will make the shower look brand new. But, just like all epoxy's....they are a pain to deal with if you have never messed with them before. Its hit or miss Fred, it might be cheaper to just have the bathtub area recovered with tile unless you have a affordable painter that could apply the epoxy.I hope this helped @Fred Ramos feel free to PM me if you have any other questions about this project. 

    Also, I apologize @Joel Owens it did not tag you in the above reply!

    1Reply
  • Fred Ramos
    Real Estate Investor · Corinth, TX · Member since 2008 · 72 posts · 11 votes
    11y

    @Dan Ward  thanks for the reply.

    I think we will just go ahead and have it all re-tiled. I did use Kilz Original oil based primer to finally get rid of the stench...luckily for me, it only took one coat to do the job :)

    Thanks again!

    0Reply
  • Steven Myers
    Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2013 · 62 posts · 28 votes
    11y

    Can you please explain to PPG paint?  Is that the paint we should be using? I'm just using the ProMar 200 from Sherwinn Williams.

    0Reply
  • Dan Ward
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Cabot, AR · Member since 2014 · 70 posts · 38 votes
    11y

    @Steven Myers  I have a broad knowledge of the overall world of paint but much of my depth of knowledge is with PPG (Pittsburgh Paints). I can speak to the technicalities of PPG paints while I could only give a solid field review of Sherwin Williams or other major brands. On another note, Promar 200 is a good paint, some painters would say its the best...some would say it gets the job done. Painters are picky and will nit pick every thing there is to about paint quality. Aside from Promar 200 splattering some while applying with a roller...its a great product and is a great value!

    0Reply
  • DL Martin
    Rental Property Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 292 posts · 280 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Dana Whicker:

    @Dan Ward You're awesome!  Thanks for sharing.  I'm following this thread so I can refer back to it later.

    @Dan Ward 

    I couldn't say it any better than Dana did above. 

    DL 

    0Reply
  • Shelli CallanBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Kalispell, MT · Member since 2013 · 67 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    We have to paint a garage before we can get a VA loan on a house we have under contract. Problem is that it is 24 degrees for a high and 9 degrees for a low. Can we tarp it, heat it, and paint it. We don't care how it looks or last, we will be doing it over in the Spring or Summer anyway, we only need to cover the chipped paint for the loan. Any ideas? Getting desperate here...

    [email protected]406-212-9081
    Shelli Callan with ADT Realty Campfire Realty Group
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Dan Ward
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Cabot, AR · Member since 2014 · 70 posts · 38 votes
    10y

    @Shelli Callan You can 100% heat up the room with a space heater and then apply paint. Most high quality latex paint is rated to handle 35 degrees.....I would make sure to use a neutral color. A simple light beige doesn't have much coloring pigments and will dry much quicker than a blue, yellow, or a color that has tons of colorant in it. Also, Make sure to apply a few thin coats. I hope this helps!! 

    0Reply
  • Kris Mcfarlane
    Rental Property Investor · Chilliwack, B.C. · Member since 2015 · 115 posts · 37 votes
    10y

    This guy is the paint god! I am an industrial carpenter and gees your a walking encyclopedia of paint! 

    3Reply
  • Dan Ward
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Cabot, AR · Member since 2014 · 70 posts · 38 votes
    10y

    Thanks for the kind words @Kris Mcfarlane! I'm just glad there is a community like this that allows others to benefit from peer knowledge.

    0Reply
  • Tyler Hubarth
    Investor · Portland, TN · Member since 2015 · 22 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    @Dan Ward I am in the process of rehabbing a house that was also occupied by heavy smokers. I have been able to clean the walls and trim using TSP which worked great. My issue is with the ceiling, it is a popcorn texture which makes it difficult to used a sponge or anything else to wipe it clean. Would it be okay to just sweep it with a broom to remove cobwebs and dust, then apply a coat or two of Killz? What are the chances of the nicotine stains coming back if not wiped clean?

    Thanks for the awesome thread, just what I needed!

    0Reply
  • Dan Ward
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Cabot, AR · Member since 2014 · 70 posts · 38 votes
    10y

    @Tyler Hubarth Sorry for the late response! I've been on the road in the backwoods of Arkansas most of the day. Anytime I deal with popcorn ceilings I always think long and hard about just taking the popcorn down. It's super simple.....get you a pump sprayer with some water, wet the popcorn down, get a 12" putty knife and scrape it right off. But, if you really just want to leave the popcorn ceiling as it is I would put two coats of BIN 1-2-3 primer instead of Kiltz. The reason for using BIN over Kiltz is because the BIN primer is shellac based so it will dry quickly and has better stain blocking properties. You will want to avoid or be very careful dusting the ceiling with a broom just so you don't knock down any patches of popcorn. Will you be spraying the ceilings? Hope this helps! 

    0Reply
  • Christian Sifuentes
    Flipper/Rehabber · Fair Lawn NJ · Member since 2016 · 382 posts · 87 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Dan Ward:

    I spent many years as an industrial/architectural paint sales rep. I feel like I could answer and have probably dealt with most issues you encounter so please feel free to shoot me a message if I can ever help you out! 

     Will do thanks!

    0Reply
  • Brenda E.
    Dental hygienist · Fayetteville, AR · Member since 2015 · 30 posts · 12 votes
    10y

    Hi, Dan. We bought a house that had to be completely repainted and are almost done.  The hollow core bedroom doors were so filthy and marked on, I decided to paint them as well.  Four coats later it still looks bad.  I was using a good quality paint with primer.  What should I have used?

    0Reply
  • Dan Ward
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Cabot, AR · Member since 2014 · 70 posts · 38 votes
    10y

    @Brenda E. If the hollow core doors look anything like I have pictured in my head they have a rough surface texture and probably a nice old golden brown color? Generally those doors were coated with a lacquer or oil based coating......no amount of latex primer would ever stop tannin stains and marks from seeping through. Generally one good coat with some Kiltz oil base primer will do the trick....after about 6 hours of drying time you can get a good quality 3/8" nap roller and top coat with two coats of a high quality latex (just because the doors will take a beating.) Hope this helps! 

    1Reply
  • Tyler Hubarth
    Investor · Portland, TN · Member since 2015 · 22 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    @Dan Ward Yes, I plan on spraying the walls, trim, and ceiling. My initial thought was to scrape the texture off, but I'm afraid of the prep work afterward as my drywall skills are novice at best. Thanks again!

    0Reply
  • Scott W.
    Real Estate Investor · chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 231 votes
    10y

    What do you recommend for cats that urine in closet and get behind the the trim/drywall?  oil-based killz?

    0Reply
  • Andy Luick
    Real Estate Investor · atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 456 posts · 237 votes
    10y

    @Tim Lindstrom - we really dont recommend using PVC trim in our market...for a whole bunch of reasons, the main one being it isn't suited for our region.  The PVC will gradually warp, twist and split over time...especially with the heat coming off the bay windows and the hardiplank.  The exterior of your home isn't a place to go cheap.  When we've been stuck with PVC.....either on trim or window grates, we will prime with Zinser Coverstain then top coat with SW Duration.  We use Duration on our retail HandyANDY job and for our investment & rental properties.  For caulk, we swore by SW Sheermax for years but they changed the formulation and it doesn't tool well for us anymore...so we switched to PPG Topgun3000.

    The other issue with your bay window, aside from caulking is to make sure the tops of the windows are flashed properly.  The metal flashing should extend 3/4" to  1.5" beyond the outside edge of your brick mold.  If it's cut short, as it usually is in our market, you can fill the small gap with a clear elastromeric sealant like Thru the Roof by Sashco which is available at Ace Hardware.  Be careful with it as it's not paintable but it will last 30 years.  We use this product for this purpose and sealing roofs.  Without catching this, water will get in behind the siding and your pvc trim...and you won't notice it because the problem won't be obvious until years down the road, the trim pops off.  By then, your frame is rotted out.  That's another draw back to any maintenance free trim....trim on a house is your warning sign that something has failed...it's the canary in the coalmine so to speak.  That's why we still use wood trim mostly and back-prime on all edges to seal the wood....if it ever rots because something failed, it will be discovered while it's still a cheap fix.

    0Reply
  • Andy Luick
    Real Estate Investor · atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 456 posts · 237 votes
    10y

    @Tyler Hubarth- you're right to be concerned.  Textured ceilings are 99% of the time never taped or finished.  It's a huge cost savings to builders as the real cost in hanging drywall is taping and finishing.  If the texture is in decent shape and we're not seeing heavy water damage, it's a PITA but we actually brush and roll it with Ziser Coverstain.  You'll knock some of the popcorn down and it will drip so tarp heavily.  We've found this to be our best approach.  Usually, we can seal over smoke in walls & trim with just Kilz but for some reason, Kilz doesn't handle the popcorn or texture as well so we use Coverstain there.

    1Reply
  • Dan Ward
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Cabot, AR · Member since 2014 · 70 posts · 38 votes
    10y

    @Tyler Hubarth since you are going to spray it will be easier to leave the popcorn ceiling as it is. Spraying it will ensure a good solid coat over the entire popcorn surface. Let me know how it turns out! 

    @Scott W. cat urine is definitely a pain to deal with. The worlds best primers do a great job at blocking stains but little can defend the odor. So the oil based primer would mask the odor for a short time but it wouldn't eliminate it. Here is what I would do....saturate the area with vinegar then come back with baking soda on top of that. The baking soda will naturally pull the odor out as it dried. After all of that is cleaned I would use a shellac based primer.....like BIN 1-2-3. Shellac primers are generally used to seal framing after smoke or fire damage to eliminate the smoke smell. Doing these steps will definitely get the job done right the first time. Hope this helps! 

    2Reply
  • Dan Ward
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Cabot, AR · Member since 2014 · 70 posts · 38 votes
    10y

    @Andy Luick I've forgotten to mention Zinsser Coverstain as a priming option.....it's a great product also. Generally more expensive but Zinsser has a lot to offer for different situations. 

    0Reply
  • Andy Luick
    Real Estate Investor · atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 456 posts · 237 votes
    10y

    Coverstain is double the cost of Kilz but just a better product.  @Scott W. - cat piss is awful and primers won't do anything for you.  You have to hit it with an enzyme product like, I think it's called Pee Be Gone...or something like that.  Only commercial product I found to work. I've moved recently and can't lay my hands on the product I have left.

    One of my friends says this formula works but I've never tried it:

    • 5 oz hydrogen peroxide
    • 1 tsp vinegar
    • 1 tsp baking soda
    • 1/2 tsp dishwasher orange soap (something about the orange scent help break up the urine smell), or for best results use 3 drops of wild orange essential oil

    Most of us won't rent to tenants with cats for this reason....it's hard to get out AND every other animal that wanders by going forward....will mark the same spot.

    0Reply
  • Scott W.
    Real Estate Investor · chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 231 votes
    10y

    @Andy Luick have you had any luck using (renting) a commercial grade ozone machine?

    0Reply
  • Tyler Hubarth
    Investor · Portland, TN · Member since 2015 · 22 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    @Dan Ward @Andy Luick Between Kilz original, BIN 123 (Shellac-based), and Zinsser Coverstain which would you recommend for heavy smoke stains? Would any of these do the job in one coat? or am I better off with two coats no matter which product I choose?

    0Reply
  • Dan Ward
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Cabot, AR · Member since 2014 · 70 posts · 38 votes
    10y

    @Tyler Hubarth if you were to ask this question to 5 seasoned painters you would probably get 5 different answers. I can tell you that I would use BIN 1-2-3 solely because it is a pigmented white shellac based primer. It has been proven to out perform most latex and oil based primers at covering and sealing. You should definitely give it two coats.....it seems like a pain now but it's much better than having the regret that you didn't later on. Here are the keys to Zinsser Coverstain and BIN 1-2-3......

    Coverstain is thick and covers very well. It's oil based so very similar to Kilz just way more expensive because it contains more titanium dioxide for coverage. 

    BIN 1-2-3 is thin and could be considered runny....being shellac based it also can carry a strong odor.  Besides the downsides BIN does have.....it will get the job done every time. 

    1Reply
  • Tyler Hubarth
    Investor · Portland, TN · Member since 2015 · 22 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    @Dan Ward@Andy Luick one last question, what are your thoughts on back rolling when using a sprayer? Is it necessary to back roll every coat of primer and top-coat paint? or just the final coat of top-coat paint?

    0Reply
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